Detailed Analysis & Feedback on Shadow Bolt Volley & Demonology going into P2

As we’ve seen images of runes in slots not yet materialized in P1, I’m going to have to assume that new runes will come in new slots and our current rune selection in existing slots will likely be final.

First of all I have to say that SBV is a really cool and thematic ability that feels fun to use. Splurging out shadow bolts at everything in sight feels great. There are however some really glaring problems with the rune.

Importantly, it reduces the damage of Shadow Bolt by 20% when slotted. This is fine for cleave purposes, it just nerfs the overall damage a bit, nothing surprising there, it still feels good to use. The problem is that this is a passive ability, not an active one, meaning the only way to turn it off if you want to deal single target damage is to remove the rune entirely. While having a rune that is solely useful in AOE situations is alright, making it so equipping the rune is a straight up nerf to your character if you are not hitting multiple targets feels absolutely atrocious. For example, Living Flame might be a primarily AOE spell but it doesn’t magically make you do 20% less damage if you’re hitting single target. It’s also worth nothing SBV isn’t exactly a spectacular aoe ability either as it’s cleave with a maximum amount of targets.

You might say “well just dont use shadow bolt for single target then lol” but the only time you’d be using SBV is if you’re already playing a shadow damage build, in which case your only available filler is SB. This essentially necessitates that you swap into SBV for trash and swap to something else on every single boss, which feels really bad for an ability that is otherwise fun to press. It is also only useful in an instanced setting so this is the only way to use this rune in the entire game, it’s a straight up nerf for solo content and obviously unuseable in PVP.

Shadow Bolt is also absolute garbage compared to Incinerate, doing pretty much the same amount of damage as Incinerate but in 3 seconds instead of 2.25 and for almost twice the mana cost, not to mention Incinerate gives a 25% fire damage buff for 15 seconds guaranteed which is way better than the RNG and limited charges of Improved Shadow Bolt(which also costs talent points). This is evidenced by the fact the best Affli build with +shadow damage bis gear will still use Incinerate as filler…

Then we come to the other problem, which is the spec distribution of warlock abilities. The way runes were spread out for warlock is that for every slot there is 1 rune for each of the 3 specs as well as 1 for tanking. For demonology, these are Demonic Tactics, Demonic Pact and… Shadow Bolt Volley. Destro/firelock gets Chaos Bolt, Affliction gets Haunt, Tank obviously takes Metamorphosis, but for Demonology there’s only an AOE passive that gimps your single target damage.

If you want to go hard into demonology at level 40, (fingers crossed with a Felguard rune) Haunt will be terrible as you won’t have Master Channeler nor instant corruption, Chaos Bolt feels bad as you won’t have incinerate since DP takes that slot so you will likely want to stack shadow damage and cast shadow bolt, (and CB does fire) but then the only option left is a rune that straight up nerfs you on single target fights.

Anyhow, I don’t want to extend this wall of text beyond the horizon, so this is my recommendation for the rune to make it a bit more playable:

Keep the damage reduction on the cleave, maybe increase the target limit for the volley (mages can already aoe 2000 mobs at once, it won’t break the game any more than they already do when it comes to aoe), but implement a dynamic damage modifier where if your SB only hits 1 target, it does 20% more damage instead of 20% less.

This would single handedly fix the rune being completely useless outside of instances, being 100% forced into swapping out of it outside trash, Shadow Bolt being worthless compared to Incinerate and Demo DPS not having anything to pick in that rune slot. (If demo becomes viable as a standalone spec, that is)

I mean, a decent solution would simply be to remove the penalty and that’s it.

Because honestly 20% damage reduction is whatever anyway. The “penalty” is already there, because it blocks Chaos Bolt/Haunt.

Sure, but that still the whole part about having to swap it out for something else on every boss, not to mention how it would still be useless in all other content aside from raids/dungeons.

Physical damage dealer classes might be able to get away with a scuffed rune slot since half their damage comes from autos but for casters they’re the only lifeline keeping them alive right now, and as it currently stands demonology won’t have a rune in that slot to use at all. Would be nice if we could play that as a pet spec in SoD and not just 20 points wasted to get to Demonic Sacrifice like in vanilla.

I mean at some point - you can’t really have a cake and eat it.

Turning a main filler ability into cleave AND having it still compete with Chaos Bolt for ST? That ain’t happening, bruh.

Also the reverse is true - Shadow Bolt Volley is better than Chaos Bolt for packs in almost every way.

So we (and I main lock) will have to do a switcharoo anyway if we want to be so hypersuperoptimized for every situation anyway.

The alternative thing is… just don’t bother. Trash will die anyway. /shrug

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There’s a pretty big difference between giving +20% damage to shadow bolt (which still won’t make it stronger than incinerate for firelock) and it “competing with Chaos Bolt for ST.” There’s no reason to ever take SBV as firelock as you have lake of fire and can just channel rain of fire or hellfire come phase 2. Affli currently does like 30-40% less damage than firelock and this trend will continue as firelock will only get stronger. Shadow damage build is currently on par with an elemental shaman. (Not very good.) It would be completely reasonable to give more options if you want to deal shadow damage so you can actually play demo in the next phase.
Edit: Also mages happily use Living Flame on ST even though it’s a great AOE spell, so why couldn’t SBV do both as well?

+20% on a main filler ability backed by a bunch of Shadow Bolt specific talents WILL very well make it compete.

You conveniently drop the fact that Shadow Bolt in fact has a better spellpower coefficient than Incinerate AND Chaos Bolt. In reality, once all talents are applied and we have actual spellpower gear, the only thing it will DRASTICALLY be worse at is mana efficiency.

And you add a cleave on top of that… so no, I don’t want a cleave rune to give it 20% damage bonus, because that will invalidate a bunch of other runes.

Believe it or not - I don’t want endgame experience to revert back to just spamming Shadow Bolt again, because it yet again becomes the best thing to cast in all PvE situations (and now cleave too).

Lake of Fire gives +40% fire damage, every other +% damage source from talents is the exact same % for Shadow and Fire. Fire will always do more damage than Shadow in the current state of things, even if Chaos Bolt didn’t exist, simply because Fire has a whopping +40% damage modifier, incinerate costs half as much as a SB and takes .75 seconds less to cast. The slightly better spell damage mod on SB is never going to compete with a flat +40% fire damage as well as a guaranteed +25% fire damage from itself that isn’t based on RNG. The suggested change would still make a shadow bolt build worse than fire.
Edit: And you’ll have to swap from Fire for MC and things anyways so I’m not sure why you want to be totally gimped when that happens.

So what?

Lake of Fire costs a GCD and has a bunch of other inconveniences tied to it (namely degen gameplay in my opinion), even before half the endgame being immune or highly resistant to Fire.

Again, the point is very simple - Shadowbolt has better spellpower coeff than both Incin and CB, despite being same or close to same cast time. And that’s important.

Other than that - Blizzard already said they will do dual spec that includes Runes with 1-button switch, so everyone and their mothers will be switching depending on circumstance anyway.

So don’t be greedy, just removing penalty from Volley is plenty enough. I definitely don’t want Shadow Bolt to be some swiss army knife spell yet again devolving our whole endgame gameplay to pressing “4” (or whatever keybind you have it on) and tapping.

I don’t understand why you’re so hell-bent on forcing everyone to play the same old destrolock that has been in retail in an unchanged form for 15 years and campaigning against making demo and affli viable even when we both know firelock will be by far the best spec even with the proposed changes. Demo doesn’t even exist right now and affli sucks, giving a potential filler for a demo build won’t force you to abandon your 99 parser meta firelock.

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I don’t understand why you’re so hell-bent on forcing everyone to play the same old destrolock that has been in classic in an unchanged form for 15 years…

See how that works?

I said it in plain simple words - no I don’t want to spend another year just spamming Shadow Bolt because it is yet again the best button to press in 99% of the situations in raiding.

Also, you somehow obsessively tie Shadow Bolt to Demonology. I don’t see the relation there. If you slap on Chaos Bolt there, it won’t make your 31 points in Demo magically disappear.

I can’t tell if you have short-term memory disorder or you’re just not reading anything before replying. Firelock will always objectively be better than SB because of the flat +65% damage modifier that comes from just the runes themselves, not to mention Chaos Bolt doing fire damage. I mean spamming SB right now does like 35% the damage of a firelock’s dps, giving them a slight damage boost so not only your pet favourite firelock is viable won’t make anybody be forced to play SB. And no, 10% difference in spell damage coefficient won’t make shadow bolt magically do 300% damage to overtake firelock.
Using CB as Demo doesn’t make sense because your filler will be shadow bolt meaning you have to build for shadow damage.

The “always” is purely for a month now.

Your “always” is just a tiny blip, compared to many years of classic where Shadow Bolt was the way to go and often the only way to go.

I really don’t care about your pains in Retail, it’s Classic here, buddy.

So yes, in this new Season of Discovery, I’d like to discover something more than regressing back to 144444444444444QQQ4444444444QQQ444444…

Shadowbolt can’t be best cleave and ST option at the same time - period, because it practically will invalidate whole SoD for Warlock as far as raiding DPS goes.

You will live with that you will have to slap that dual spec button from time to time for pure ST bosses.

Ok you’ve got to be trolling now. Which part of “firelock will always do more damage because there is literally nothing in talents that will make SB compete with it” do you not understand? No matter how many times you repeat “I DONT WANNA SPAM SHADOW BOLT” you still don’t have to spam shadow bolt just because demonology can actually use a rune that has literally no effect on firelock. For every % shadow damage increase you can get, firelock can get the same amount or more. SB also costs way more and takes longer to cast. It also clearly won’t be the best AOE as firelock once again outclasses it with lake of fire/hellfire.
I sincerely hope now that I’ve explained it for the 15th time you can understand it.

I think this is how runes are designed in a large part. And why we are able to swap them out very easily at any given time. Blizzard expects us to swap runes between bosses, trash and other types of content.

if you want to clear a camp of 4 gnolls u might equip SBV. if you’re going to fight a single elite you might do chaosbolt.

I think this is how it is going to remain moving forward and I don’t really mind it personally.

EDIT: the only thing I would add is that I think the rune slot distribution is unfortunate for many classes.

A good example is everlasting affliction which says in the tooltip will get refreshed by incinerate, but incinerate and EA cannot be used at the same time.

Same goes for lone wolf and kings for hunter. Lone wolf without kings is just terrible. etc.

So I hope they distribute the rune slots better for phase 2.

That’d be fine but then there would have to be a fifth option so you can actually press something as a demo build that is worth pressing. Or just a passive that isn’t a straight nerf to your ST damage. Picking Chaos Bolt when you have +300 shadow damage just isn’t gonna feel very good because you probably won’t be pressing it, it’ll just be a dead slot.

I still fail to understand how picking Incinerate or Chaos Bolt makes you “not demo” if you go 31 points in Demo.

Is that some sort of psychological thing?

the thing is that shadow bolt scales MASSIVELY with spell power, as opposed to your regular aoe spells. when your shadow bolt is hitting 1k+ like it’s nothing its going to be even stronger than hellfire…

although lake of fire + incin + hellfire in of itself is probably going to be even better

Honestly for a demon warlock you are just going to go master channeler probably and then dot. Still running 5 points in corruption most likely. Playing it how it has always been played as a drain tank and weaving shadowbolts in here and there. I get your point that SBV is the “shadow bolt rune” but I don’t think that’s how blizzard sees it. I think SBV was a means to provide warlocks with good aoe since rain of fire is absolute dog.

What i am TERRIFIED of in phase2 is that blizz will give us some of the obscene demonlock abilities from retail where we summon an army of imps and dogs and other pet spam. I hate demon lock in retail and how they summon a literal army of pets. It’s disgusting.

I’m sure demon locks will get something fun to press in phase2 though.

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Hear hear, that is one thing I for sure don’t want to see in SoD.

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If you’re going master channeler, dots, EA, putting all your points into affli… then you’re not demonology, are you? Whole point of SoD is making unused specs finally viable, I’d like demonology to be an existing spec that isn’t just “gimp yourself by putting your talents into useless things while your runes for other specs carry you”