Devs what happened to the children of the Stars Identity? Will it be fleshed out?

Blizz, what happened to the core of the night elves?

Kaldorei - meaning Children of the STARS is what they are named after and I presume originally centred on, but got diverted from that destiny after the Legion came. I’m kinda quite curious at this stage, especially since the Legion and Long Vigil are now over, and the main theme of this race and details of its original culture and identity which it didn’t rename itself from still seems core to them, but not focused on or fleshed out in game by blizz.

With the Legion and Long Vigil gone, it’s given the night elves room to develop this more fully - But it’s lack so far leaves me with the impression blizz kinda strayed a bit too far off track with the nigh elves who seem more like children of the trees or moon than stars.

Another thing worth mentioning is “the stars” is a very unique focus concept and makes you more excited and mysterious than the over used wood elf and dark elf themes, so it seems odd to cut out potentially the most unique rewarding and creative feature of the night elves and I greatly desire highly recommend they start showing them as their namesake.

Would really like to see them get back to that original “best of the dark elves meet best of the wood elves” vision with the stars and moon unique elements playing central roles intertwined with their arcane and nature duality.
Do you remember this interview?
https://i.imgur.com/koc3l88.png

Now emphasising the stars and the role they play in every facet of these two major parts of the night elves - arcane civilisation and forest life I think would make them more exciting and feel like the unique elven group the marrying of dark elf and forest elf original vision seemed to hint at. Sadly most of wow has been lame elf and wood elf for the night elves, rather than star focused dark elf and wood elf.

So as far as the things about the night elves we know most of from screen time in game are:

The Forest connection we get a lot of (click this to read more)

Night elf lore on forest love is pretty fleshed out and integrated in the race - with druidism and the emerald dream having a lot of info on it, nature and the wild gods.

We also see the night elves connect to nature screen time wise and we get it. Druids in animals, looking after trees, caring for them, forest communities.

Character customisation added vines and bushy eyebrows too - we gots that. But they aren’t children of the forest or trees.

The Moon connection we get a fair bit of too (click this to read more)

Next is Elune. She’s been showing up more thanks tot eh Night warrior ritual, we also see a lot of the order in WC3, we read about them in night elf civilziation in WotA. we saw the Cathedral of Eternal night, but it’s not as fleshed out as the forest.

We finally got to see Elune 's temples, we see moon symbols, druids, Tyrande and Nightborne/Moonguard casters use moon spells. The clerical side of the order is known though it’s detail isn’t fleshed out, but it’s stated.

We see moon symbols in the new tattoos, and 1 female headpiece and earring option.
Elune is discovered through studying the well, believed to have fashioned the night elves from the well, and we know has some link to their arcane ability.

But they aren’t children of the moon.

Way too little role of the actual key namesake, the stars. It is the most mysterious one. Is this the missing link, that connects the above two and the great mysterious pre-sundering culture? Have we seen the least of this because it was most strongly connected to the arcane phile pre-sundering culture, and is a casualty and mystery left for later when both civilization and arcane return and blizz would take a closer look?

The Stars

Here is where the most fundamental part of the night elves is, but the least evidence of shown. This core part of the night elves is still very mysterious running deeper than nature, Elune, the arcane but tied to all of these. But it’s cultural significance, relevance and presence is sorley lacking in NElf content and material.

I do kinda feel cheated every time I delve into the night elves and see more about the forest than the stars or moon or night - and really hope they fix this.

Evidence of stars in Night elves so far

  • Greeting/farewell emote “stars guide you”
  • Star spells priests, druids, mages associated with the kaldorei which we see NPCs cast and use
  • We know they kept their identity children of the stars defined them in the pre-sundering era, and didn’t shift during the long vigil, so it is something, which like the night ties to both their arcane and nature halves, even though it’s strongly connected to arcane casting and knowledge.
  • We know their cities built astrological towers, but nothing is fleshed out.
  • Hints of some sort of star/celestial facet to their religion, but details are scarce, even Elune worship details are limited despite her prominence.
  • Druid balance spec class spells - as the only kaldorei culture based class, it’s here they showed that star part of the kaldorei into game mechanics.
Trivia: Why we see star spells only on the druid class - click here to see hidden info

The druid class’ (the only class based on kaldorei culture even though they are credited with developing the mage and demon hunter classes too) balance spec spells is our biggest in-game mechanics features that shows this - which is ironic since the stars are associated with their arcane half/talent more predominant to the priesthood and night elven arcane users like the Highborne and Moonguard. But it’s because night elf priests and mage class in game are not designed on the kaldorei root versions but the human versions and humans and their high elf teachers don’t have this strongly in their culture or Holy Light religion it is missing in the in-game classes unless they introduce class racial spells. Druids were based on the kaldorei so have this. But NPC night elf priests and mages are shown to have star spells.

I want to know more Character customisation has nothing about, save maybe the 1 diamond pendant added for neck pieces. This central theme is completely missing, and often ignored showing more forest love or elune love, but not the stars.

What I imagine
So I’ve had to use my imagination so far thinking of as many ways this can apply to night elves and culture, and assume/hope it will be fleshed out more. So if we are going by what the name implies, here are some “I wonder ifs” I can think of, that might apply to night elves?

  • Their star love is the most basic and fundamental to them
  • The night elves fell in love with trees because it helped bring them closer to the stars.
  • Arcane love may be genetic, but was the motivation for delving into the arcane was reaching and calling the stars - hence why the 3 major kaldorei classes from the beginning mage, druid and priest can all call down stars?
  • Night elf names are based on star charts
  • Night elves roles and professions are foretold by star seers and are organised on that path based on their star charts
  • Night elf cities are built on leylines, but the building configuration and flow is built to match the constellations
  • Night elf magical astronomy/astrology is the basis of mage portalling (it’s how they discovered and mastered portals)
  • Night elves some times magically inscribe their constellation pattern on their bodies and would glow when using arcane magic (fell out of practice amongst the Long Vigil group, but has returned since the ban on arcane practice was lifted).
  • The reason their eyes shine silver is because their star love was so big, it somehow lit the arcane power within to reflect the light of the stars
  • Night elves love diamonds a lot, because they remind them of stars (but had to do without most of that as one of the many sacrifices the long Vigil demanded, but now it’s over it’s back in style along with fashion and love for all things purple) - good way to reflect in character creation

Visibly Bringing out more of the Star identity of the Night elves In-Game

So let’s look at some practical ways blizz could potentially bring out more of this kaldorei - Children of the STARS identity.
Racials:

  • If you ever give an active damage ability racial, let it involve the stars.
  • If we ever get class specific racial spells as a feature: having star related abilities across the kaldorei based classes (mage, priest, hunter, DH, rogue) would be good

Character Customisation

  • Diamonds - often indications of stars, in jewellery and hence as cultural items should dramatically increase, so more head piece and neck pieces and earrings with stars for females and crescent moons too
  • Male head pieces/ear rings can look something like this: especially floating ones like in this image. Could serve as a highborne customisation
    https://imgur.com/VbQUtfa
  • Notice star effects in hair linked to head pieces too like this image
    https://imgur.com/a/lA7CMa9 colour variants
  • Star’s tattooed like magical glowing runes on skin, like a custom that some NElves would tattoo their constellation birth on their skin. Even extend the internal arcane power their eyes glow silver with this. Something similar to this.
    https://i.imgur.com/jDid5OG.png?1
  • Star effect alternative for vines in hair would also be good. The effect could look like this:
    https://i.imgur.com/nZFTzWu.png?1

Culture references in quests, novels

  • Bring this up whenever you go to the night elves from now on,
  • In their new city, show the Astrological towers,
  • Let’s see NPC mage starmancers and Star Augurs (priest/mage cross overs)
  • Highborne/Moonguard/Moon Priest NPC casters wielding star/moon spells in combat
  • Reference to the stars in birthing, naming rituals
  • Night elves told their star and a ritual that inscribes it in them.
  • Houses in the new city matching the constellations, personal house, sleeping positions matching the stars
  • Magic amplification and drawing from the stars.
  • Elune and arcane connection
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Small query I had to ask regarding this bit. Aren’t trolls the ones with the oldest druid culture? NElves come from trolls… Edit to mention that I’m definite on the fact that trolls’ shamanism is surely the oldest.

I’m not very familiar with the more ancient of Warcraft history, so I wanted to ask you if it was the NElves who developed boomie druidism better than trolls. Not a nitpick or anything, just a genuine question.

By the way, wonderful post! I love commentary on cultures.

Oh Thank you.

Since you like it, I’m going to give a more detailed response to the best of my knowledge. So here goes, I’ve hidden some information to make reading easier, you just need to click on the arrow to expand the information.

Malfurion the first druid

As far as the lore shows, Druidism is an Elven developed class. Malfurion was the first druid, it is interpreted as he basically took the nature magic studies and practices, and developed them much further to become the druid class (Malfurion is from a highly academic race/culture, and was schorlarly pariah in Suramar, the city he lived in -he felt that the night elves had lost their way a lot in their obsession with the arcane that had gone overboard (addiction, reckless use of magic, an approach tracing it’s routes to the very top, the greatly adored Queen Azshara everyone loved and most followed dancing to her tune that sadly got quite obsessive in the latter years of the civilization leading to the addiction and recklessness) we now know the chief culprits.

Magical talent in night elf society

We know he was clever elf and like all night elves at the time had been learning spell work since childhood (WotA trilogy - Well of Eternity book) From this we can infer, all night elves have arcane talent naturally but not all have it to the levels required to be mages. When the Long vigil happened, the practice of the arcane was banned (to prevent the Legion’s return) in the main night elf group, once they returned in WC3, the night elves soon lifted said ban (there was no point to it), however unlike before, only those strongly talented enough to be mages and Highborne at that are trained in any arcane spell work currently, normal night elves, though still having the talent and capability for some arcane casting, don’t learn it unlike pre-sundering days.

Magic usage but not at class level

So Malfurion, is credited with being the first druid, this is not to say that many of the nature magics in less developed forms were not used by followers of Cenarius and in even simpler forms by other spell casters. They were, but he organised them, structured into a study and discipline, developing them to a level that could be worthy of a class in its own right.

Think of it this way, using a nature spell does not a druid make you, nor does using an arcane spell make you mage, or a shadow spell make you priest - those classes are experts in those fields.

This is why we see Shaman can cast nature spells but aren’t druids, troll voodoo witch doctors cast a variety of magics, incl arcane, shadow, nature and some elements - but they aren’t mages, priests or druids. Many older and primitive cultures can do some magic - some of it is nature, much elemental (cos they treat with elemental spirits who actually do the casting on their request, but some of the more advanced ones like trolls wielded other types, simpler arcane, nature versions often in composite classes not advanced enough to be regarded as what we refer to as a class.

Druidism in the Troll Race

Trolls, though being a more nature based race, are a based in nature race rather than druidic. They’ve no druidic culture until recently, having not developed it to anywhere near what the night elves did. Judging from the lore in cata and BFA, when the Loa Gonk told the Darkspear high priestess of Gonk to start training, showed her a few things than sent off to the Cenarion circle to learn from the druids (cata troll Druid quest). Since then he seems to have advanced the teachings of his priesthood now into basically druid like shapeshifters and casters.

It is unclear if Gonk’s followers are a different form of druidism gonk developed and taught them or it is normal druidism he passes onto them following Zentebra’s development. All we know is that he starts activating druidism in trolls in cataclysm, and we meet Zandalari who follow him now being credited as druids.

Other races Druidism

Other races: Tauren druidism is both ancient and modern. They never had druids like what Malfurion developed until the start of wow. Their ancient druids were pretty much like the night elven proto-druid cenarius students who came before Malfurion. An earlier less developed form of nature magic druidic (because that’s what we call it now) at its roots, but not developed to the level of discipline night elves who were incredible Magisters and professionals in other disciplines would consider “class level” of practice.

Tauren then stop following Cenarius, and it’s much later over 10k years later, when Malfurion meets and starts training Hammuul Runetotem that tauren druidism returns. There is no sign of it in the Highmountain history, so I presume they’ve just picked it up recently from them.

Gilnean Worgen druidism is taught by the night elves after the cataclysm and their curse is broken. But hte original kaldorei worgen some of whom you free with scythe of Elune in Val’sharah quests if you picked the balance artifact, were all druids.

Kul’tiran Druidsm is based on Vrykul Drust arts, who learnt it from the night elves/Malfurion. Details aren’t clear, but the quest chain or leader who is part Drust/vrykul (we assume it’s vrykul blood that makes Kul’tirans so large), does connect the early drust magical development as originating from the night elves, but not remaining with them. We noticed a Vrykul in the form of a tree in Stormheim, this I believe hints at that.

Why/how the Kaldorei are the origin of the mage class, which helps understand how Druidism is credited to them, and Demon Hunting too

You need to try and visualise the Kaldorei civilization - the lore tells us was the most advanecd civilziation 10,000 years ago - this implies the levels an dhieghts they reached in many fields, including magecraft with the knoweldge htey had outclases everything todya - in fact, this is why ancient ngiht elfven relics are so prized by mages, including High elves because so much knowledge was lost in the Legion invasion and sundering (think of an entire global empire, united, with lots of cities, people, organisations doing all manner of reesearch and a leader who prirotises knoweldge and development above everything - think in modern terms how many companies we have, how many entrepreneurs, organisations that do and create things, advanced science and technology but also use those things in nearly every other field. Causing great developments in everything including many non-science fieldslike art, politics, cooking etc.

Now imagine it being lost, there’s ton of things that basically would be lost, and no civilizaton has had the arcane capacity (apart from the Thalassians and Kaldorei (but the main kaldorei weren’t praciticing) and none have had the peace and unity globally like the Kaldorei presided and enforced , or the unity and numbers - key elements that can greatly drive and accelerate developoment.

It is one of the reasons why the Thalassians (i.e. high elves) kingdom doesn’t match the night elves civilization. The emerging of the Shen’dralar highborne, Moonguard and Nightborne from isolated existences in cities thought forgotten and lost would bring a ton of lost knowledge back, but it would be a while before you see them utilise that visibly and it would not be all the knowledge available. Even naga gather arcane relics, hinting at though surviving, the palace Highborne lost a lot of stuff - I mean ofc, unlike Eldre’thalas and Suramar, their cities didn’t survive though they did, and though they never stopped casting, they didn’t have an empire’s worth of information and global experts to draw on any longer.

So in that vein, you can understand how the night elves make arcane practice into a class or discipline called the mage, but you can probably guess that what passes for a mage today is likely regarded with contempt by Nightborne and Highborne /Moonguard Shen’dralar as having fallen well short. The only area magcraft has evolved or possibly recovered a lot of and gained new techniques and insights is with regard to warfare - because fighting has been the biggest thing for many of the races.

So you see, in making the druid class, you will have heavy kaldorei cultural influences, which is why you have those arcane star spells, moon spells, Elune spells etc, because the class is based on the night elves who were the only druidic race alongside the Children of Cenarius (half night elf/faun beings), and so blizzard shows this star theme kaldorei facet through them.

Conclusion ramblings

This isn’t in any other culture or group but the night elves, and it isn’t exclusive to druids, we see it in night elf priests and night elf/nightborne arcane wielders to.

It also makes sense seeing they are children of the stars (the nightborne are entirely based of the kaldorei civilisation too, so will share this in the mage class, even if they miss the parts in the druid and priest their group was without) - the only thing not Kaldorei about the night elves is the model the nightwell changes them to and the chronomancy magic they develop. Post legion, joining the horde is another deviation from the kaldorei roots.

A way they could show more of the star identity in game play is when/if they give class racial spells. Presumably this would come in a race expansion where races are a focus and blizzard wants to bring out a little bit more of the flavour of races in your play time, so they give each race, an ability in each class. For Night elves this candidate would be something star/moon related using arcane energy.

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You make many excellent points, thank you for explaining! I agree, I really hope too that one day, class gameplay (mainly visuals) begins to better incorporate individual race histories. It would take work, definitely, but it would give so much more weight to the lore. It could be optional through race-exclusive glyphs so that both sides of the argument get what they like!

Imagine a Night Warrior-variant of Paladins… or proper showcase of Elune Priestesses through their unique attack visuals… :heart_eyes:

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Yeh. like a class skin set you can apply that converts your regular Preist to a Moon priest, or paladin to a Night Warrior paladin.

They woudl have to design some key unique visuals and tailored appearances, but it could be quite cool

But love the glyph idea, you could indeed glyph spells to be a little different or even have a tab for racial spells, and you can substitute certain class abilities with a racial cosmetic for that type of spell (type of spell = single target range/melee, special, aoe, heal etc) . It’s like making racial glyphs a system, and adding a racial spells tab to the spell book, that allows you via a drop down menu on clicking the racial spell that allows you to use that racial spell in place of the normal class ability.

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What’s in a name? A race by any other name would burn just as well. :smirk:

The night elves will be killed again by some horde Mary Sue orc zugzug then the alliance will sign another peace treaty. That is the horde… Blizzard way

Yeah but it’s only the night elves isn’t it?

rofl. It does seem that way. But I do agree with @Heavenseeker in that they need to kinda zero in on original concepts and focuses for non human races. Much of it’s really interesting.

Night elves for examples were original unique rednition of the elves, but they kinda dropped the ball and were reduced to fantasy generic wood elves for the most part to most people

This is because on screen, most of what you saw the night elves in was forests, D.E.H.T.A druids it dominated their early game presence.

The arcane night elf prolific in the books and Legion, the Demon hunter night elf also a big thing in the books and Legion were mostly invisible in game, same with the Moon Priestess caster with her stunning debut in WC3, has barely been seen in the race that it is at the heart - outside Legion you have yet to see a night elf highborne group or DH group do anything remarkable or create/build anything.
Night elves are yet to have any remarkable presence outside the forest. And the thing is, their name is Children of the stars - and that’s one of the least emphasised or shown theme in them.

The dark elf arcane portions and wood elf portions are supposed to feed into this star elf and come under it’s banner, yet it’s invisible mostly. This is what has to be fixed. The focus is off and they’ve forgotten what it means and it’s value. Even the balance druid which is at least in the class but is the centre and heart of the theme of the druid is barely spoken off in the lore - and it has the star/arcane portions in it and is where the “of the stars” shows up in the wood elf portion.

It’s uniqueness and originality is it’s unique value, no one has done any type of elf with a star focus, feeding into a night dark elf base that has forest wood elf half. No one, but rather than centre them on that, they’ve settled for the generic wood elf which is a fraction of what they put out for this race in it’s lore.

When you think of it, where are the great cities, arcane mastery, demon hunting fel mastery, Moon priestesses calling down stars, star in thier culture? In-game it’s largely forests and wild gods which is only a third of what their about.

they’re not doing their own lore and product justice

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The ship may have sailed on this… i think the devs now think of the forest as the core fantasy of the night elves.

They wrote a much bigger vision, failed to progress it during the years, not showing the civilziation side of the ngihte lves or emphasising the “of the stars”, so most people who plya the game but don’t read the books, identify the core fantasy of the ngihte lves as 100% forest, rather than 50% forest elf, 50% Dark elf.

It’s a shame, night elves went from very fascinating to very generic, and they’re not bothering with any of the original core stuff they actually put in the race.

Personally, Id on’t get it, every fantasy has the boring forest elf trope, you create something far more interesting and unique with this fusion of dark elf and forest elf, but centred on a star elf theme - but instead just pursue the forest rather than the stars as the core identity?

Their choice, but I’m feeling disappointed and this is just one of the manyt hings i think they’ve dropped the ball on.

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This, although it’s all vague, can’t be correct, Remember Vydhar in the Stormheim questchain?

This and the ingame voice overs don’t make it seems like the HighMountain Tauren learned Druidism only recently, but ages ago, depending on how old Vydhar is atleast, and atleast quite apt before they turned him into a tree, this all took place long before they were rediscovered in Legion’s time, so it’s not possible they learned it from Hamuul Runetotem or the other tauren, they must have learned it somewhere else, that either leaves the Night Elves, but that has allot of holes in it or Cenarius himself, the one who did bless the HM tauren ancestors with the gift of Cenarius.

Personally, I would love to learn more about HM tauren druidism, and I’d like to think that they actually never lost the Druidic ways and weren’t dependant on the Night Elves for their druidism, unlike the Kalimdor tauren who lost allot when forced to become nomads by the Centaur etc.
But that’s just my headcannon and a wish.

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Night elves were even more interesting, but blizzard dropped the ball on them by reducing them to forest elves and suppressing every other aspect in game, and now even they seem to have forgotten what the night elf actually originally is. The forest wasn’t supposed to be the core fantasy, it was the stars, and they were supposed to be a duality of the dark elf and the wood elf - with strong aracne and nature themes. This largely was the case if you add in the novel series, but in game failed to present the dark elf side properly, until the Nightborne - but then that part should see a reflection in the actual kaldorei themsleves as part of the bigger whole under the star umbrella.

This is what makes night elves most fascinating, being unique, different. The druid aspect is cool, but on it’s own its boring and a copy cat, the stars, the arcane, nature, moon priest, edgy demon lord, combined together this makes them feel like a full on race an entirely unique.

That a Quintet of storngly defined aspects:

  • Arcane masters (highborne/moonguard),
  • Druid naturists,
  • Moon Priestesses,
  • Amazonian female warriors,
  • Edgy demonic Illidari -

and this all wrpaped under the banner of the stars - i.e. children of the stars.

But we almost only see night elves as mainly forest kin - the highborne portion is tiny - no cities, no great arcane works, the demon hunter section is tiny too, barely around, short cameos, the moon priestess aspect is like the tiniest of the lot, you barely see them do anything or play any major role, the amazonian female warrior/huntress you see a bit more off, but it’s nothing compared to the Druids.

It’s like they planned and mapped a wonder race, called them children of the stars, started with an incredible background story they made into a book, but the visual aspect started at the forest stage, and they forgot to progress it on properly. While they showed all these other aspects , which one stands out most to people?

It’s not the stars, or the night, nor is it the arcane, or the females, nor the Moon goddess and her priestesses., it’s the druids… Even after Legion and it’s well balanced portrayal of the night elves, you mostly see that ofesty aspect.

They need to start showing the stars in Children of the stars, give them star effects in their models, glitter like stars on their hair as an altrenative to vines, some of the tattoos should instead map star constellations on their skin, have head pieces and jewellery with stars / diamonds - yes, diamonds represent stars. Something like this.
(https://i.ibb.co/WVJMxp3/highborne.jpg

Make night elves feel they are several things. We already got the full Illidari cusotmisation : but Illidari should be usable as Warlocks, shadow priests and possibly rogues at the very least.

You need to look up character creation and feel you are making:

  1. A Child of the stars
  2. A highborne night elf unmistakenly
  3. A wild forest night elf whether druid or hunter
  4. An elegant Moon Priestess
  5. An Illidari half demon night elf

These 5 qualities need to be availb.e, and i’m afriad only the wild forest night elf and half demon night elf is fully satisfied.

Toned down version of this should do for the star tattoos.

https://i.imgur.com/jDid5OG.png?1

Star effects on hair like glitter could have this sort of texture:

https://i.imgur.com/nZFTzWu.png?1

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I really wish they gave Night Elves more “Of The Stars” identity… But as I see what direction they are going it’s probably not going to happen… All the new night elf customization is about LEAFS, TREES, GREEN… It made me pretty disappointed since I have my Night Elf priestess who would fit more “star” theme…
That’s one of the reasons I started to play Nightborne since they fit the theme a bit more…

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agreed, I can’t help but feel it’s oversight. While I love the leafy green additions as it plays to my druid theme and forest elf theme, it’s not the only theme of the night elf, and in fact it’s not even the main one.

They talked about core fantasy, but forgot thtey named them Children of the Stars instead of the forest. Forgot they gave them an expansive background in both the arcane and the moon goddess alongside the forest stuff.

Forgot that in fantasy a star focused elf group is far more mysterious and exciting than the “done to death” forest elf trope, which is why having stars as the under pining focus on a group that has both dark elf high magic elements and forest nature elf elements is a turly unique package worth pursuing, not ignoring.

My recommendation would be creating a sub race of night elves like Night elf worgen to carry on that pure forest identity, but have the night elves continue to have it’s broader scope.

  • Should have an option to click for star effects too on hair as an alternative to vines or in addition to them.
  • Should have star tattoos, like constellation patterns on skin, but instead they’re magical tattoos - this would look awesome for mage and priest tooons in particular, but would also fit more star focused druids/hunters etc (just like leafy hair can work on priests and even mages though it’s more a druid/hunter thing.
  • Should have more diamond necklace, headpieces and earing jewellery too, and allow males to also have neck, head and earring pieces like this image here:

https://imgur.com/VbQUtfa
Here you have the star drop like diamonds, and they coudl have an animation that make em twinkle/shine with power like the stars.

  • An alternative they could have is instead of diamonds actual have magical effect like the balance druid’s astral form, with like star dust from glowing stars showering on you, and having variations of this.

That sort of star shows it:
https://i.imgur.com/wPyPxoY.jpg

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