A solution would be to just make Alacrity into a 1 point talent. Because at no point do you want to spend 3 points into it when 1 point is enough to get it rolling.
Playing around with the DF Talent Trees for Assassination Rogue, I came up with this build.
The idea was to have good utility and flexibility, a good balance between Single Target and AE damage as well. I’m focusing on what I imagine would actually be the most fun to play, not necessarily the best for any given content. Depending on what you prefer, you could invest many points in different paths, these were just what felt most fun to me overall. There are still some major concerns, that I hope they will iterate on, and I’ll elaborate on them here.
Slice and Dice is still in the game. This never fails to be disappointing.
Athropic Poison moved to the Class Tree is a great move. The position of it makes it easily accessible for all Specs, and it provides some much needed Group Utility.
Alacrity, much like Slice and Dice, is very powerful, yet so bland and tasteless, to the point of being offensively boring. Since the Talent was created, it has always been the best choice just due to how necessary Haste has been for Energy Regeneration. I feel both it and Lethality cost way too much, as you have to invest 3 points in them, in order to get Cold Blood or Marked for Death. Depending on how Energy starved Assassination is at the start of Dragonflight, that will determine how necessary Alacrity is.
My suggestion would be to drop both Alacrity and Lethality to 1 or 2 Point Talents, as 3 is just way too much investment, especially as they gate other, much more interesting abilities.
Seal Fate feels like a core part of the Assassination Toolkit. With the slower pace of the Spec, without those extra Combo Points on Crits, the Energy Regen issues are compounded on. While Alacrity can eventually be outpaced with gear (at least hypothetically), I don’t see how you could ever do that with Seal Fate. I just don’t see Sin functioning without Seal Fate.
Thistle Tea is utter garbage. There just isn’t a situation where it won’t cause overcapping. For the level of complexity it forces on you, it offers very, very little. 300 Energy sounds like a lot, but that’s just 6 Mutilates. The concept is just completely outdated by the demands of the modern game. They should just remove it completely, maybe replace it with some old Set Bonus or Covenant Ability.
Echoing Reprimand, I guess some people like it. I just never found the RNG Combo Point gameplay the least bit enjoyable. It’s fine, long as it’s kept in check.
Find Weakness isn’t really that valuable to Assassination. It works well for Sub and Outlaw, but as Sin already deals mostly Poison damage, FW doesn’t really bring anything to the table. I figure the only way to somewhat balance it for all Specs would be to change it to interact with Mastery. This would also make Mtr much more desirable for all Specs in general, which might be a good thing. As it is, Shadow Dance is still by far the superior of all the Cap Stone Talents, and I don’t really see Thistle Tea or Echoing Reprimand competing with it at all. The sheer amount of flexibility it provides makes it just better in every part of the game.
Zoldyck Recipe, Dashing Scoundrel and Scent of Blood, they all cost too much. Having to invest 3 Points (4, when you include the Cap Stones you are actually going after) is just way too costly, and it unnecessarily limits your potential Builds. The obvious fix would be to drop them to just 2 Pointers. Even 1 extra Point to spend can open up a lot of options, not just for Damage, but Utility as well.
Overall, I feel Sin is in a pretty good place. It would be viable, functional, with the Trees as they are now. If the unnecessary Point Costs are reduced, and Energy Regen is tuned well enough, I could see the Spec improving a lot, and this could be the 1st time we aren’t stuck with essentially the same Build, as we did since WoD.
So as an Assassination Rogue (based on poison as you say later in the post), you’d rather have a 1 % heal every 2 seconds (Recuperator) than 15 % bonus damage for your weapon poisons (Virulent Poisons)…
I just want to be sure.
What’s the point of having a build that would be decent for everything when you can create multiple builds and switch between them as much as you like depending on the situation ?
Is it that hard to press SnD once ?
No need for the snark. The concept was clearly about being a jack-of-all-trades, so survivability is quite valuable. Maybe everyone isn’t the perfect player you are, and finds value in having a bit of a safety net.
It’s totally fine to do that, never said it wasn’t. However, you are assuming there is just one correct way to play the game, and that it has to always be about optimizing one metric, instead of going for something you actually enjoy. What’s the point of having options, if you aren’t willing to make any use of them?
Just unnecessary. The Class worked fine without it. Development stages would be the perfect opportunity to remove unnecessary things, while bringing in new, much more engaging mechanics. Nostalgia is a poor reason to hold on to a crutch, when you are totally capable of walking on your own feet.
A bit of survivability is fine, but at the cost of 15 % weapon poison damage as an Assassination Rogue, i don’t think that’s worth it. Moving the point from Nightstalker would be smarter if you want to play with Recuperator.
I can’t agree with you, i’ll never understand why someone would willingly play in a sub optimal way (up to a certain point of course).
You do realize that, as an Assassination Rogue, you have to press it once and you don’t even have to care about it for the entire encounter because the duration is extended by Envenom, right ? And it will be the same for Outlaw and Subtlety too.
I can’t understand why people are asking for SnD to be removed when they don’t (or barely) have to use it…
That would arguably be why. Press it and forget it. All three specs have ways of keeping SnD rolling without much thought. Cut to the Chase, Grand Melee, and Premeditation. And it will be even easier for Outlaw and Sub to keep SnD up passively in DF.
Personally i kinda like it, along with other maintenence buffs. But i do sometimes wonder if there isn’t a way to “modernize” SnD a bit. Between the Eyes is a good template to use, i think. So maybe SnD could look something like this.
Slice and Dice
25 Energy / 1-5 Combo Points
30 second cooldown
Finishing move that rapidly strikes the all nearby enemies and increases attack speed by XX%. Number of strikes and duration increased per combo point spent.
1point: 2 Hits, 3 second duration.
2points: 4 Hits, 6 second duration.
3points: 6 Hits, 9 second duration.
4points: 8 Hits, 12 second duration.
5points: 10 Hits, 15 second duration.
You’d be pressing almost nothing else if its worth using, or not at all if it isn’t. Also having both a limited number of strikes and a duration makes very little sense. It would never last 15 seconds if it’s only applicable to 10 strikes. Actually it probably wouldn’t even last 5 seconds.
Nah, too intense use of SnD feels really bad. But removing it entirely I think takes a small level of depth away that just adds to the character of the class if nothing else. Just leave it as it is. Its fine that way.
Sorry, maybe the wording might have been a bit weird. The idea was that SnD itself did some damage, and then also provided the attack speed buff. The two would be seperate. It also has a cooldown, which is longer than the maximum duration of the buff. Think of it as a attack speed version of Between the Eyes.
That way some of the rogue’s auto attack damage could be moved back into other abilities. Alternatively the attack speed buff could be stronger (maybe even up to 100%) to make the ability feel a bit more impactful that SnD currently does.
I personally agree with you that i think it’s fine at it is. But a lot of people don’t like it. So i thought up of this as some kind of weird inbetween.
How will it be easier for sub rogue to keep up SnD? Feels like I have missed something.
I have not talented premeditation in a single build that I have made. It is too much of a loss when compared to other options… Like, I would rather have flagellation, symbols or shuriken tornado than Premeditation xD
I’d be curious to see what build you made. There’s a good chance Premeditation should be picked, unless you’re creating a single build that you’ll use for everything.
I would use this for M+ most likely. Very unsure about the General Rogue tree though, might just go down to echoing reprimand instead of spending pts on crit.
or this, again ignore the general rogue tree:
I understand the idea, but Rogues already have an ability that provides various buffs. Roll the Bones does all that, and more. I don’t think we need another version of that. I’d argue RtB would benefit from losing 2 of the buffs, but I don’t expect that to happen. Blizzard loves over-engineering things.
YES I thik so
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