Did mythic + kill wow? Or did it save it?

Community General Discussion
1

Did mythic + kill wow? Or did it save it?
1: Mythic plus are kind of a contest.
The question is do players like this timed stuff?
Or are there a reason more play classic than DF?

2: Did mythic + bring in more toxic players?
Or where they just hiding in the shadows?

3: Did the OI/IO addon ruin wow, or has it just become a all elite game?

4: Do you enjoy classic more then DF?
Or would you leave the game, because Blizzard will remove the mythic + contest & addons?

Or leave like me, because of the contest over toxic mythic +?

5: What would make you leave wow?
What is your opinions around this?

And what do you enjoy the most now?
Raid?
Mythic + contest?
Beign toxic, since you know Blizzard won’t do anything anyway?
Snuffel gnomes?
Pvp?
Pve?
Farm mounts?
Farm Transmog?
Farm pets?
Getting all card mounts with Amazon prime?

What’s your opinions around this?

Please leave that & what you beliveve & feel.
“Oh if you don’t have the intellect of empathy!”

Maybe pass on this forum & move on

Thank you.

CSL & OUT

/I will only respons to players that like big flompy bananas & that are none toxic

Thank you for understanding <3


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The thing is, classic players play the strongest comps, specs and raid setups just like retail players do, a lot of which probably play both! I don’t think you can argue it’s not as elitist, I think the entire community is a little elitist; even if we kid ourselves into saying we aren’t.

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  1. Yes, but a lot also just play it for rewards, and don’t enjoy it. Depends on the person.
  2. Pugging M+ is very frustrating, hence it is toxic. Guild groups however are not toxic.
  3. I opted out of using it. You can aswell opt out of using all third party data sharing.
  4. I enjoy raiding and leveling a lot in classic. I play DF and classic for completely different purposes. For me, DF is like a casual theme park. Classic is a true RPG, where I really care about my char and about the people, that I play with.
  5. I will delete my battle.net the day, they put gear in the cash shop out of principle. I’m also gonna leave, if they don’t learn from this season. We have a trinity of m+, raiding and PVP. At least one of them should be optimized for average players and casuals with esports as an afterthought. I think what they have done with PVP is amazing this season, but they abandoned BGs sadly. Would like to see similar treatment for either raiding or M+, but I think raiding is probably the better place to do it. I don’t care about LFR at all though, because LFR is too easy. Maybe a queue for Heroic and Normal mode would be nice

I enjoy farming transmog, doing chill pvp (World pvp, solo shuffle, BGs), and professions. I would like to do more M+, but it’s hard filling my keys, cuz lots of players quit and are done this season. I considered raiding in retail, but I only enjoy raiding in classic actually. In retail, people play raiding like bots with tons of spreadsheets, over-optimization, etc. Also, guilds require to do M+ for gear, which is just lame.

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why is that?
all i am doing is pugging and i dont have any issues. i play multiple class and all roles.
I did not encounter a lot of toxic people, but i also chose or make my own groups to avoid that.
avoid groups for example
key level 11
group leader rio 267

there is a high chance that someone gets triggered etc. because group setup is bad, dps is bad, just invt rng people with 0 rio etc. etc.

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M+ is the reason why the game hasn’t folded completely in my opinion. I think if it was raids only we would have even less people around, myself included.

WoW raids refused to modernize themselves and are monolithic time sinks you need to set whole evenings to in advance, not to mention waste time fighting pointless trash. The pacing is terrible and it is terribly unrewarding as well.
The gaming space has moved away from that. We have more convenient drop in drop out content. Mythic+ is one such case that doesn’t require a commitment of hours, but just about 30-40m at a time.

With that said, i am not crazy about the timing aspect of mythic+. It’s just another e-sports nonsense that is there for pro-gamers and we have to deal with it.
I would be fine with the difficulty and people taking how long they like.

  1. No, i don’t think players in general like the time aspect of it.
  2. They were always there, in mythic raids, or used to be.
  3. It didn’t ruin WoW, but it did bring out more elitism. But, it is ultimately the devs fault for putting a timer on it and having keys deplete.
  4. No. If Blizz removed m+ i would leave.
  5. See above.

M+ is the only thing i enjoy. I like PvE pet battle content too though. It’s a neat side game.

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Removing the timer would allow people to cheese it with multiple tanks/heals, and in general kill the concept of rating and progression.
I wouldn’t mind it though since I don’t care whether M+ dies and I’m all for free and easy gear so we don’t need to farm raids for it. We could focus our scheduled raid time on progression instead.

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Good. The concept of rating is pointless.
The progression would still be there though. The higher the level, the more difficult and the better the reward (which would still cap at one point). Actually it could cap at 20 and that is the maximum level key.
What does it matter if it takes hours to go through? What does it matter if pro-gamers want to do it with just tanks? Doesn’t affect my game. It doesn’t have to be competitive you know? Games used to be about fun.

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Well, for one end game content is supposed to be a challenge, not a grind.
And two, from the perspective of the 4 guys who didn’t use their keystone, the timer might as well be non-existent in sub20 runs and yet they still rage quit when a “clownfiasco” happens.
So why do you think people would stick around for hours?

I could talk about this for days, but in short, fun comes from a sense of accomplishment. If something is trivial, the rewards don’t feel like a reward, but a payment you’re owed.
There’s tons of trivial content in WoW like open world stuff or random HC and neither is really fun for anyone but ultra casuals.
If I wanted to take a shot at them I’d also add casuals always looked at high end content like raids because it’s audience seemed like they’re having fun, so blizz took steps to make it accessible to them.
Then they cried until it got nerfed, and now LFR isn’t fun even for casuals, since it doesn’t feel like you’ve accomplished anything.

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Considering M+ is the only content i play, I say it saved it.

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1: Mythic plus are kind of a contest.
The question is do players like this timed stuff?
Or are there a reason more play classic than DF?

Answer:
Show me where there are more people who play classic than DF, actual numbers, real solid facts founded on reality and not just emotions.
I get that some people are enjoying classic, and that the new addition of Hardcore-addon brought some extra pull too; especially for the content-aimed streamers since it’s a “Will he die?!”-excitement attatched to it

but I have seen ZERO evidence that more are playing DF.
I can absolutely argue that less people overall are playing WoW;
My argument for it would be because we got burnt out from Legion (RNG on RNG on RNG before 7.3), then BFA (GRIND!!!), then SL (RNG WITH GRIND! Also, haha-gated covenants)
 PLUS The horrible storytelling.
DF has not - in MY opinion - upped the game on storytelling.
It also contains too little solo content; no mission table (yes it was content even if it was 
 dumb-mobile-esque stuff?), Island expeditions, Torghast, MoP farm
 etc.
So, DF is not as interesting to me either.

2: Did mythic + bring in more toxic players?
Or where they just hiding in the shadows?

Answer:
Soooo
 Stress = horrible attitudes.
Timers = Stress
More to keep track of = Stress
I’d argue it isn’t toxic people per say that has been attracted; People are just so stressed out they can’t think “nicely”.
“Time is money, friend” or in this case; “Not timed = fail = wasted time, friend”.

3: Did the OI/IO addon ruin wow, or has it just become a all elite game?

This has existed since the very beginning, and been argued out of ignorance forever.
Gear color > Gear-awareness (Some Blue was better than purple) > Gear level > Gearscore > Achievements > IO
It’s always been there, Always.
It’s just a way for people to see if you have done something or not, since they don’t know you.
I’d argue Humans in general just ruin everything they touch, ever, always, forever: don’t blame the tools.

4: Do you enjoy classic more then DF?
Or would you leave the game, because Blizzard will remove the mythic + contest & addons?

No, I don’t play classic. I was finished with Vanilla (As I even did bosses in Naxx) when it was current content.
I think both versions has negative and positive sides, with Classics positive being that it’s simpler and can be 100% completed.
DF just has more content with all expansions in its pocket.
I have no idea where your argument/question here comes from; “Blizzard will remove” – what? They won’t.
I wouldn’t leave the game - IF - they removed M+, but I would play it - even less - than I do now because there would be less content for me to do.
Less content is never better unless I want to 100% complete something and never touch it again.

Or leave like me, because of the contest over toxic mythic +?

I find both Retail and Classic to be toxic.
Classic is festered with Min/Max and hardcore-think, more so than Retail even.
Retail still has plenty of people who don’t do more than collect pets or tmog, classic has
 none of that to do.
There is only a very small portion of classic players that aren’t min/maxers to some extent, or completionists.

5: What would make you leave wow?
What is your opinions around this?

I think the “Cleaning the game” is making me leave the game.
It feels more and more soulless.
I mean come on, removing female paintings or emotes? 
 It’s just getting a bit dumb.
To not start even with the empty story/lore
 it’s just not catching, it’s even offputting.
Feels like there’s just no content there to care about

They are also dropping the ball with solo-game, as they are not adding things you can really do alone anymore (Table, Torghast, Islands, MoP Farm, etc)

And what do you enjoy the most now?

I just enjoy logging on sometimes and doing random stuff. Really.
Sometimes it’s an M+, pushing for a higher score.
Sometimes its playing with friends in ANY type of content.
Sometimes its collecting cosmetics (Tmog, pets, mounts, etc)
Sometimes its just to mindlessly level something because it’s a constant progress-gain; easy “dopamine”-esque stuff.

I generally think WoW needs more soul back, more solo stuff, and less restrictions.
They also need to tune down the stress, and de-clutter fights, while thinking about colors (Blue + Purple stuff to avoid in a Blue + Purple room (vault end boss) is not good
)
less Foliage-clutter to get in the way of camera angles, too.

It’d be nice if the re-added things they’ve previously removed, stop with FOMO-stuff, and generally just embrace a more chilled and welcoming kind of attitude rather than greedy, sheeply and stressy one.

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Sorry what? So basicaly you dont like raids becouse they takes hours to do yet you have no problem if dungeons would take hours to do? Looks like your opinion is biased.

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without a doubt m+ saved wow.

problem is its been 8 years now and format is completly stale .

it will always have it place in wow but we need a new exiting format because M+ have run its way and its honestly kinda boring at this point.

new affixes will change nothing and only be detrimental - people have had enough problems with 6 year old affixes - add new one and S2 will be complete joke when pugging.

13

he never said he doesnt like raids.

he stated facts that raids are

a) stale old outdated format

b) that they are huge time sinks and huge commitments because you have to commit set 2-3 evenings a week of your life .

the only time they tried something - and players absolutely loved and adored it - was when they put it flex raid during SoO in MoP . jezus it was amazing - you can que pop in clear 3 bosses and leave.

but ofc they had to destroy it in wod because fun is not allowed in wow. no no no.

instead making all modes like this. divided and allowing you to just spend there 30 - 60 minutes of your time.

its 2023 - era of 2006 gaming is long over. anything that takes more then 20-40 minutes per gaming sessions is unacceptable for most of both your and old gamers.

people who spend long hours on schedule in game are crazy small minority and it is insanity that blizz caters wow to this particular group of gamers.

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I think M+ brought more life to the WoW. It introduced a “session-like” way of playing WoW, which is necessary nowadays - it’s not 2004 anymore, you need to compete on much more harsh online entertainment market. “Classic” MMORPG concept with lot of hours to be invested into playing doesn’t work well anymore, because there are plenty of other things on the market which engages people faster.

Yes, but this is not because of concept itself, but how it was implemented. Breaking keys mechanics, outdated manual way of groups creating, no auto punishments for leaving and trolling make it much worse than it should be. My opinion M+ should be improved much more in “session-like” design it should be, which mean queuing, auto-matchmaking, auto bans for leaving and so on. Just like it implemented in session games, such as Dota, CS:GO, Overwatch and so on.

Creation of IO made it very clear, that people need to have a one source of truth when it comes to determine the current skill bracket of a player. But because of addon API limitations, it doesn’t fulfil it’s purpose for 100%. Now it creates a room for elitism, egos, boosting and all the crap which could be avoided with proper automated matchmaking design.

No, definitely not. DF mechanics are already outdated from modern game design standards, but Classic is outdated much much more.

The same thing which made me leave several times before - when the game starts not being fun, but frustrating. The very first time it happens to me in WotLK, when there were no easy and straightforward way to find a raid. Now at least we have an LFR for that. Then I returned in late Pandaria and quit in WoD because it was very frustrating to find M+. Then I returned in Legion, and found my way in M+, but raiding become impossible for me. I’ve spent month searching for some static, meet dozens of raid leaders with blackhole size egos. I have applied to numerous PUGs, most of them needed AOTC achievement, and there was a brilliant addon which faked it (now it’s broken in DF sadly). I played some SL, but the story was complete disgusting there, so I stopped really fast. And now I’m enjoying DF, but I don’t really into gearing anymore, just playing somewhat casually.

Nowadays I’m collecting mounts. For now it works, I have some enjoyment. When it become boring - I will unsubscribe until better times.

16

For me it saved it, since I wouldn’t play that much if it wasn’t there :slight_smile:

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The answer is Yes and No.

Heres the fact m+s introduction was a massive success, Legion proved so.

However legion also very much changed the target audience of the game itself.

Theres a reason why 99% of posts are saying buff to the loot and rewards in m+ yet nobody mentions buffing raids and argues the moment u try and argue that its unfair on raiders.

M+ fits the average player, better then a raid schedule.

What is currently killing the game is the continous increase of difficulty which is alienating a % of the playerbase continously. When u look at most complaints regarding m+, its to do with affixs or difficulty.

Theyve decided to try and basicslly make m+ demand premades, which kills the inital success of the game mode which was its pug friendly nature, however it also absolutely obliterated the raid scene.

Think m+s introduction was a major success for players, but caused a great increase in complexity for devs to deal with in regards to the games reward structure.

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Pacing is one of the aspects of fun.

If tuning is done the way that most optimal way of tackling the difficulty is to wait for all of your offensive/ defensive CDs every pack, then the most of the ‘hours’ you mentioned is spent on waiting, which I would argue is the opposite of fun.

It absolutely does because you dont account for people valuing their time. Even if there wasnt a timer, community by large would still gravitate towards some kind of optimization because it doesnt make sense to just sit down and wait, artificially inflating time spent to get the same reward.

19

M+ definitely saved WoW.

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First of all WoW is not dead so it was not killed.
I would not go as far as to say that it was saved by Toxic+ though

1:Is there reliable data about this? We are between 2 seasons now so probably more people take breaks from DF.

2: Toxic players always existed in this game. M+ just gave some people more reasons to be hostile or aggressive towards others.

3: The addon on its own it just a source of information. A tool. It is the people who might make good use of it or abuse it. It is not about elitism, it is a trust issue.

4: I did enjoy classic era more during shadowlands. But now I am more interested in DF than replaying past versions of the game that Blizzard might wipe at any time (like with the TBC servers)
Removal of the M+ will not affect my enjoyment of the game. But I would consider it a lazy move by Blizzard.
The stories of the Toxic M+ just make me avoid PuGs in M+. I am having a fine time with guild runs

5: What would make me leave wow?
I would ofc leave if Blizzard decided to delete our characters, collections etc.
Or external factors

I prefer Raids, outdoor content and collecting transmogs, mounts etc.
I am glad that they are giving out the card mounts. I was not a fan of people having to gatcha their way to these mounts via a card game or buying them from scalpers.

All in all, I consider M+ to be that good idea that was implemented “Wrong” for the sake of creating an esport scene and in attempt to prevent some players from gaming the system.
I also consider the generic affixes to be a lazy system that makes some dungeons worse than others.

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Really? Alright let me explain it real easy for you.
It takes a big group of people several hours a week to do a raid.
It takes 5 people and maybe an hour to do a dungeon.
A dungeon doesn’t require the same number of people or time commitment and is much more flexible.

You could have noticed that yourself, but you clearly didn’t want to.