How is actually calculated the SS? Because it seems like it will recieve a huge nerf with the new patch, and how will be calculated the shields with the update?
The amount of atonement healing that transfers into spirit shell absorb is reduced. So each damage spell will contribute less.
The cap will likely be smaller also due to the change of it being based on SP. But it will scale better with gear.
It will still be valuable as it provides more EHP so will likely still see use.
Sorry I dont have a calculation for you, you could try checking the priest discord and there is info on there and in the pins.
I get that SS is strong but what makes it really strong is mind games. Gl if you are a non venthyr priest wanting to do some decent disc healing.
The nerf should have been to mindgames, not SS
Mindgames is already weak to 2/3 specs while disc is more broken than ever because of SS…
The nerf was not enough, disc must be nerfed to be on par with other healers because the SS change is not actually a nerf, its balancing because of the higher ilvl coming.
Not to mention that Mindgames is already “bugged” and does not return nowhere near the max mana it should be.
And yet nerfing mind games will screw over shadow and disc in dungeons… I really dislike this covenant system
I’d like to see how it does really as its a nerf x 2. I would actually say SS scaling with sp is a bigger nerf across the board.
It is true that mind games made it really easy to reach the SS cap which was silly to scale off max HP because HP doesn’t scale so well but we started off with 30k+ hp so the cap for low gear was pretty high, mind games just made it easier to reach. whereas other healers scaled off their sp for the bulk of their main healing.
It wasn’t just spirit shell alone that made it so powerful this tier though, it was also encounter design. I would like to see encounters next tier that don’t just favour it. But the issue is if there is a hard hitting raid wide mechanic the effective HP SS gives can still make it best for encounters on progress even if hps is less because ppl not dying to a big hit is pretty big ^^
Oof, please no… It’s a better idea to nerf the main talent causing near-broken damage mitigation, than to nerf something that is used everywhere. Spirit Shell is never used outside of Raids. Mindgames is useful everywhere, and not even unreasonably so.
Disc does not work properly below 30% haste + 30% crit, once it reaches this values you will see.
You must be joking now
Which is why its so broken as always.
Disc needed a nerf since BFA S1 when they where top tier with Hpala, instead its still topping out meters leaving other specs to rot.
To be fair, what’s wrong in that statement? Spirit Shell has a 1 minute cooldown, and several Raid mechanics also have around the same timings.
What does this mean? What’s wrong with Discipline before that much Haste and Critical Strike?
Also if Discipline needs that many secondary stats to be viable, why is it broken?
When you think its the raid mechanics that made spirit shell powerful and that its not by itself yes, its a literal joke.
You played disc before? In BFA for example?
A disc with 30% crit+haste was like 2 discs with the amounts of crit haste we have right now.
Now add power infusion to that + the incoming stats and understand why its getting balanced, NOT nerfed.
It should be nerfed really hard though, not just balanced.
Already answered above
I personally agree with the sentiment that had Raid mechanics had more jumbled timings (45 seconds for example) Spirit Shell would not work out each and every time, not like it does right now. Both play a part in its viability - the amount for which it shields, and also the timings which allow it to align better with them.
There’s a reason absolutely no one goes Spirit Shell in Mythic+, where timing cooldowns are less reliable or shorter, and just a flat damage reduction is better.
But who has 30% Critical Strike and 30% Haste right now? Corruptions don’t exist. Anything can be superbly powerful with that stat weightage, and nerfing an entire specialization for that much of a top-end stat % is just wrong and unfair. I’m sorry, I just don’t catch your drift with this point. It remains to be seen if stats will actually go to those values further in Shadowlands thanks to some sort of system or stat inflation on later gear.
Discipline meets nothing but nerfs every patch. Flat damage is poor, and Holy Paladin does a better job there. It’s only because Discipline very greatly relies on directly healing through damage outside of Shadowmend is what makes it able to weave in damage even better than other specializations. In Raids outside of Spirit Shell timings and smaller ramps, we are nothing but damagers, saving mana.
In raiding disc is used for its absorb capability, the rest healers do the raw healing.
In mythic + you dont have someone to raw heal for you, is that a serious argument?
Nothing works each and every time so does SS, that doesnt mean its not broken and mechanics make it OP. Its seriously broken and that must go away.
Are you reading what i write my friend?
I said the SS change is because gear scaling higher and will scale even higher soon and then it will be absurdly broken.
It should be nerfed another 10 times more.
Are you 100% serious or you are joking again?
Imagine if they are topping healing with small spirit shell and ramp timings how broken they are.
Still, the spec literally is top in the ladder since BFA S1.
That must stop, same for Holy pala.
Monk-shaman-Holy Priest must shine instead of the same 2 specs all over again and again.
You keep talking about BFA but disc has been like this for much longer simply because of the design of the spec. Did you start raiding/playing in bfa? You should go look at logs from SoO if you think bfa was bad.
I’m going to just confirm right now that my opinion is spirit shell was not the right spell to add (back) to discs tool kit. And that disc has a lot of pluses that make it too impactful.
Encounter design is a massive factor on the strength of discs spirit shell. If there wasn’t a good damage pattern on nearly all bosses it would look different, was I saying it was the only factor? No I wasn’t.
30% haste/crit? What are you on about, there isn’t a break point where disc becomes obsurd. High gear is high gear and disc would have been shining at those %s because that was high gear in that tier and likely at the point content is farm and their fast burst was better than CDs that took time to tick, same for holy pala with glimmer.
On this note you need to look at the value of mastery for SS its actually pretty strong for spirit shell and you can drop crit for it if you wanted to. Also int is the biggest stat before we forget about it. And haste is king if the secondaries.
I like how you are telling me disc is broken but I never said it wasn’t? Absorbs to this extent will always be OP.
The sp scaling will bring SS down a peg in 9.0.5 and will allow better scaling following this. Its not going to fix the issue that absorbs are still absorbs.
Disc damage is fine in grouped content its actually at a good point for how the spec works. The issue is that it has that in addition to its healing without sacrificing healing like specs that are not designed to have damage as a core part of their healing. Disc damage is just poor for solo content. You for some reason linked healing statistics to Annsara but he’s talking about damage in that quote, Holy pala damage is actually pretty gross though.
The underlying issue with disc is the design of the spec that blizzard have done and they cant balance it properly because changes/nerfs for 1 type of content will drastically affect them in other types of content too. Changing spirit shell is at least a raid only change.
I also want to point out I dont even like this iteration of disc or the evangelism playstyle the most. I prefer cata disc it suited different players (those who wanted traditional healing and those who wanted to take advantage of that version of atonement play) the only issue being shields were still a big thing then also. This current version (from legion) is still miles ahead of some other expansions tho.
I thought that conversation with you had gotten better after our last interaction but you just look for things people write and twist it out of context to argue about it.
You dont have to ask, you can find out your own. Its very easy.
Where Did i say it was bad?
I know you wont drop that trash tier argument but still encounter design affects all CD’s and mini cd’s not just SS.
You probably dont know alot about your spec. I know you will argue with it now as you did with your trash tier argument above " SS is not OP, the encounters make it strong" but still, beyond 30% crit + haste disc becomes godlike.
Mastery is probably the last stat for disc priest, you really know about disc or just talking around?
Not really, disc is op and broken. When i see someone saying its not SS that is op its the mechanics you will get the answer because you are trying to twist the reality and defend your absurdly broken spec.
My point if you didnt just take 1 little part of it is that its not just been in BFA but its all you talk about.
Its a genuine argument, encounter design with raid damage occurring roughly every 1 munite has contributed to SS being very strong. No other healer has anything like spirit shell on a 1 minute CD. The window of the 1 minute raid damage is also narrow so spirit shell covers a lot of the damage before it can be healed by a healer raid CD or normal healing.
You are saying disc is OP but people are not reaching 30% haste/crit it isn’t some magic break point either, you are confusing the somewhat gear cap in nyalotha which was reached on farm from corruption and some magical gear break point. Disc usually does dominate on farm and in high gear.
Mastery is quite a good stat when it comes to spirit shell. As crit is normalised as just a flat modifier mastery is competitive as its also a flat modifier to spirit shell.
I said it wasn’t spirit shell “alone”. Twisting my words.
Love how Ronda is arguing with everyone :DDD
I’d also like to add there is 1 encounter on mythic Lady Inerva Darkvein that actually doesn’t really fit the 1 min raid damage pattern and disc is not the highest hps healer on statistics there while using spirit shell.
And the overall hps statistics are probably majorly skewed by Hungering Devourer. Shields on this specific fight are actually grossly over powered because you can shield the miasma damage but not heal it. It also has expunge, consume and desolate to allow you to get very effective use of spirit shell.
I dont want to bring Sun Kings Salvation into it as its not a disc issue, just GS is too good on that fight
I’m not saying 2 out of 10 encounters is a reason that disc isn’t OP but that the other encounters have something that disc can effectively absorb. They still do really good on Inerva.
Shriekwing - wave of blood
Altimor - sinseekers/vicious lunge/rip soul
Xy’mox - glyph of destruction
Council of blood - oppressive atmosphere/prideful erruption
Sludge fist - colossal roar/hateful gaze
Denathrius - blood price/add aoe/hand of destruction
Edit: I do think absorbs are OP please don’t twist my words, thanks
Now i cant even understand what youre saying.
Nope its not, its a silly excuse for the OP spell disc got in SL.
Im saying that when disc gets to that point is beyond broken the way it works.
I dont understand what is that hard for you to understand.
If it was NyA and corruptions it would be more like 60% haste and around 45% crit, please open your eyes?
nope,Disc dominates under progression and gets absurdly broken under top tier bis gear.
Its the last stat for both dungeons and raiding. Please be serious.
Which i quite answered to you its not the encounters its SS itself that its op
Its actually this guy arguing with himself, i just stated that disc is OP and not because of the encounters and he got triggered
I definitely made a mistake engaging in a discussion with someone who doesn’t understand most of what he’s talking about.