When it says “atonement gives a 3% damage reduction”
Is that it? It doesn’t mean it’s 3% per atonement out?
Seems very underwhelming.
Just about to try out disc in pvp tonight and thought I’d check out their talents.
Considering we have a passive 30% dmg reduction when hit in melee.
It means that whoever has atonement (from you) on them will take 3% less damage. It doesn’t seem like much but I’m sure that it could be the difference between a player surviving and dying. Spirit shell and Evangelism are much better suited for raiding where you can spread the effect to 15+ people, in small groups they do even less than lenience does.
3% on a 10k hit from a boss is 300.
300x25 (raid wide AOE) = 7500 you just prevented on the entire raid if you load your attornments up right.
If a boss melees for 12k ever 1.5 seconds for 7 mins solid of a fights.
60(seconds)*7(mins)= 420 (seconds)
420 (seconds) / 1.5 (auto attack frequency)= 280 (auto attacks total)
280 * 12000 (damage per hit) = 3,360,000 (total damage from auto attack to tank)
3,360,000 * 0.03 (percentage reduction from attornment on tank) = 100,800 damage you didnt have to heal on the tank alone over 7 minutes.
100,800 / 7 = 14,800 healing a minute for free.
If you had a talent that read
heals 1,200 per 5 seconds, lasts 10 seconds and can be readily maintained on 5 targets indefinitely and up to 30 under duress
would you take it? Because thats effectively what Lenience is.
Math.
Yeah a flat % may be great on paper. But it’s still very boring.
I appreciate the detailed answer though mate.
Would spirit shell not absorb more over the same period of time if used on CD?
Also, having 25 atonements active all raid wide AoE moments, that seems a tall order. I always thought pushing 20 was near the limits.
Tbh, Ive not raided since BfA and not “properly” since Legion. Its quite possible the limits of “uptime” has been nerfed. Im still relearning disc and shadow (holy can die in a fire, I swore when I rolled priest in BC Id never play holy).
But double Radiance is 10.
Attornment has a 15 seconds duration. Power Word Radiance is a 20 second recharge so no triple.
Evangelism which gives attornments an extra 6 seconds.
Attornment has a 21 seconds duration with Evangelism. So 10 applied in 2 seconds from Radiance, with shield spam for the remaining 19 seconds of their attornment duration, theoretically it should be possible to have 29 attornments up for a fraction of a second if youre down to the 1 second GCD.
In practice of course youd never do this because of the wasted healing potential. Youd want at least one penance in there which could hit 27 people if done perfectly. With 70-80% attornment healing (50% base plus 20-30% for mastery) youre looking at one penance doing ~32k healing across the raid. More based on your T1 talent. Because your penance is only ~1.7 second cast you might even be able to squeeze PW: Solace in there for another ~15k across the raid.
EDIT: As for spirit shell, no idea. I havnt done the math and owing to my lack of raiding Im not up on that talent, its utility is new. Its harder to pull off because it has to be timed right and requires you to also heal to generate the shield. You always get value from 3% damage reduction even if its just on the tank. Where as spirit shell has quite a high bar for entry in terms of execution. If youre out of range of the boss for example dealing with a mechanic when your ramp up time for AOE starts you will get significantly less payout from spirit shell.
For pvp I take lenience.
The other 2 are more suitable for raids. If you get shut down (CCd or dead) after popping either they are wasted. This is especially painful for spirit shell.
For raid you couldn’t have up 25 atonement as they time out.
Spirit shell is a very amazing tool to survive sketchy aoe damage mechanics. You can increase the effective HP of your raid so they do not drop as low as without. You can also use it every minute covering a lot or raid aoe events.
The bosses in the current raid allow for good use of spirit shell. Only sun king im not going to bother being disc on from now on, ill play holy there, but this isn’t because of spirit shell!
TBH there isn’t much point in spirit shell in small groups. It replaces rapture which in a small group you can easily put a big shield on the whole group, and it doesn’t require you to do atonement healing to use. Spirit Shell does way more healing than rapture in raids, but in 5-mans or arena? I doubt it. That brings the other 2 talents. Atonement healing is very low at this point in the expansion, so Evangelism isn’t worth it. Lenience seems fantastic as you can maintain basically 100% uptime if you wanted to, on the entire group.
At the moment spirit shell is a fantastic talent for every fight in Castle Nathria except Sun King. Spirit shell is absurdly powerful, a proper ramp will net you at least 250k healing on most heroic fights, obviously it can go higher if you have more HP, or can get more atonements out. Clarity of Mind also makes spirit shell a mini evangelism on a one minute cooldown.
You are forgetting that Math and Raider IO parsers + Skada users don’t really go well.
So even if you did prevent that damage it won’t show on logs which for the vast brain dead majority it’s all about the numbers not the efectivness.
And usually people tend to just lash out on numbers instead of well getting better, cuz it’s easier to blame others than to git good or use your brain.
Addons tend to dull your sense of logic down to just “oo that dude isn’t doing like me 15 million K HPS kick kick”
This is why you pick the shell , to bust some damage and show the ignoramus what you are capable of flexing <.<
You use Spirit Shell in raids for more effective HP for big AoEs, if people have a buffer on their health for a big aoe there is a much lower chance of a player dying. It isn’t about numbers, it is about being able to survive some mechanics safely/cleanly on progress. Its there for important moments on an encounter where people are more likely to die.
3% passive damage reduction is nice, sure, but in a raid environment 3% damage reduction vs a ~20k shield (60% of HP) on all raid members before an aoe, I’m gunna take the shield. It is far easier to keep a raid stable with it.
For example, Sire Denathrius for Blood Price as a cleave comes very close after and having players at a healthy HP pool for the cleave is really amazing, it also helps to reduce the need for expensive aoe heal spam from other healers to top people off and they can use their CDs for other parts of the encounter. Another example is Sludgefist where you can put up the shield for the roar, which is also a knockback and other healers cant cast while being knocked back, they can then use their big heal CD for the charges while you nuke the boss. The raid actually allows very good use Spirit Shell in very valuable ways to secure successful kills.
In m+ or arena I take lenience because it is a smaller group. As the single healer it can be a lot more difficult to utilise Spirit Shell and it easy to have out atonement on the whole group for an extended period of time where there will be random damage as weel as expected damage. And Evangelism isnt needed again because it is easier to have atonement up time on 2-5 people. There is also CC in arena and you can waste the Spirit Shell window.
In BGs its easier to get value from Evangelism, but I would still take Lenience as you are are likely to get CC’d. Because of getting CC’d Spirit Shell can also be wasted.
You shouldn’t just assume that Spirit Shell is used for meter epeen.
What the hell are you talking about lol
On what planet does a raid group getting +60% of your HP turn out worse than a 3% damage reduction? The reason lenience is good in 5 mans is because you can maintain 100% uptime, you can’ do that in a raid so lenience becomes much worse in a raid. So you can either sometimes give the raid 60% of your HP, or you can make the raid sometimes take 3% less damage. IDK about you but this doesn’t seem like a tough choice to me
While it’s a pretty good talent it’s just so boring.
It’s probably the least interesting talent in the entire game.
I think it is mostly a PVP talent since in PVP with a talent atonement lasts longer.
However for PVE I don’t think it is useful. With the exception of the tank, you are not keeping atonement active on every single player, so even the actual total damage reduction is really hard to estimate.
It is not devotion aura, which is active all the time.
Spirit shell is a great raid damage preventer, but the 40 and 45 row should offer more options for 5 men dungeons.
The 40 and 45 row do have really good options for 5 player content.
Sins is a nice damage increase that you will always get some benefit from. Shadow Covement can also be used to buffing Shadow Mend.
PtW is amazing for aoe and dots are a nice chunk of the healing from atonement on aoe.
I would say that aside from the 15 row 40 and 45 have the biggest effect on throughput in 5 man.
I don’t assume. I know for sure…No body cares in a raid about your 3 foot long story about mechanics and how things work…They don’t see numbers you are out.
And yes shield is taken for the numbers. Lenience would be much better in terms of math.
It’s essentially like having an extra 3% versatility. It’s pretty big imo. Sounds like a tiny amount, but it really can be the difference between someone living and grinding rep with the floor.
How is taking 3% less damage better than taking 0 damage during a raidwide mechanic
It’s still the best PvP choice for Disc because everything else in this talent tier is meh.
Sadly true. The full tier of Tallents are for pve. Seeing as holy trinity gives longer atonement anyway. We need rapture in PvP. So down to 1. Sad.
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