Do Blizzard Secretly Hate Rogues?

[Arcia-ravenholdt]

It is like they just give all of Rogue’s core functions, it’s class identity, to other classes…

Like, why on earth are hunters going invisible?? They can do literally everything from a mile away, and you give them invisibility too? Okay. Oh, and they can shoot their flare from invis without breaking stealth. “But their invis only lasts blah blah!”. It lasts long enough where it is almost as good as rogue stealth, let’s just be real. The cooldown on it is tiny too.

Shamans can go invisible also for some reason, again, ridiculous.

Mages also have invis, but it isn’t as bad due to the cooldown being huge.

Of course… This is only HALF of the problem.

The other issue is all the ridiculous anti-stealth stuff in the game now. Demon hunters just get to cheat past stealth. That is like… Having an ability where a mages spells can’t fire unless they’re in melee range. It just hard counters rogues.

Damage over time that just won’t end, and your only option to break it is a 2 min or so cooldown. Like, you can’t even go back into stealth reliably without the cloak skill that turns the dots off (forgot what it is called).

Finally, we have a toy… Sp-eye or whatever… A toy that just bypasses stealth… Like, what!?

Where is my toy that turns of mage magic? Or turns off a warrior’s armor?

You build a class that DEPENDS on stealth, and you put a toy in the game that can just turn it off… Like, what on earth are you thinking guys???

This toy should not exist… Not for world PVP, not for rated… Not at all. It is absurd.

All of this has lead me to a conclusion…

I think blizzard hates rogues, because rogues are the stereotypical “gank” class. The face of the ruthless PVP enjoyer. There is a certain vibe to a rogue that is… Anti-carebear, not just in vibe, but in the very literal cutthroat playstyle that can leave people feeling it is all so unfair.

Notice… Healers just get made into literal deities… You have five people pounding on a healer, you’re stun locking him with a perfect rotation, and he is just brushing it off; because he is a tank for some reason, as well as keeping his entire team alive.

Healers are PVEers in PVP. They look at their colored boxes, they click on them, and they don’t really have to directly conflict with anyone to fulfill their core function.

This isn’t warcraft anymore, this is peacecraft. In peacecraft, the power of love and heals wins the day.

The rogue is the face of all that the new guard hate about the game. They don’t want gankers in the game anymore, people don’t like getting ganked, so that is naughty, and so therefore rogues are naughty.

I know you’re all thinking it, because it is difficult to put a name on it… It is the soft safe space culture, that is why rogues suck… Some may say this is a stretch, but it really isn’t.

Rogues are hated because they were designed to fight dirty, and they don’t like it. They feel unfair when they fight you because they’re made to catch you when you’re vulnerable. However, they are more than fair. Should you catch them out of stealth, which is incredibly easy these days, they fold like paper.

Beyond this, there is a stereotype regarding the types of players who would choose to play a rogue. That type you’re imagining when i say “undead rogue”.

This is why i believe they just let people see through stealth with a mere toy now.

“We need to be able to see the rogue otherwise it isn’t fair!”

They hate that unfair feeling of being caught with their pants down. It is anti-safe, and so rogues must be gimped, and gimped they are.

Am i saying rogues are terrible? No… I am saying they are purposely putting obstacles infront of the core identity of the rogue; the stealth mechanics just feel like an archaic burden at this point. Something they don’t really want in the game anymore, and will do everything in their power to make sure it is as difficult as possible to use it.

[Kaldea-magtheridon]

I don’t think Blizzard hate Rogues. I think they are mostly indifferent to the Class.

Rogues have always been competitive in both PvE and PvP. Despite the many issues the Class and its Specs have had over the years, the core concept and mechanics just work. Energy and Combo Points is just a really good Resource System. There’s a reason why so many other Classes have adopted a version of that, when they’ve gone through new iterations.

I think there are a few fundamental issues that have gone unaddressed since at least WoD, to be honest. It all comes down to what the Fantasy of the Rogue is, and what kind of opportunities the game offers to live those out.

The Function and Role of Stealth and Rogue Non-Combat Utility in Group PvE is not only unnecessary, but it doesn’t really provide a meaningful benefit to the Group. Shroud of Concealment doesn’t really count, because for 99% of the Player Base won’t get much out of it, especially since it has a very long CD. Lockpicking and Pick Pocketing provide absolutely nothing useful in a Dungeon. In DnD and many other RPGs, you can benefit significantly by scouting ahead, opening locked doors to find treasure or disarming traps etc. In WoW, these things just don’t happen. Pretty much all of the flavor abilities, the things that help sell the idea of the Rogue, they have no place in the game.

Giving other Classes a lot of the Toolkit, that would fit perfectly to the Rogue, I think in Mists we saw this play out the first time in a big way. Many of the Mobility and CC options Monks got then, those are all things that would fit the Rogue Fantasy perfectly. Rolling away from danger, Sweeping the Legs from under someone… Then later we got Demon Hunters with their ability to be even more mobile with their better Jumps and rushes here to there.

I don’t really mind Invisibility being shared, since Magic is a thing, and Stealth isn’t Invisibility; it’s the ability to blend into the Shadows. Sadly, the game doesn’t really have the mechanics to sell the idea of Stealth in a way, that feels like something you do through skill, instead of Magic. If you look at Assassin’s Creed, or Splinter Cell, Stealth is achieved through cutting Line of Sight, avoiding being in a well lit area, blending to the background or to crowds. The issue with Stealth in WoW is simply, that the game isn’t designed to cater to such things. If you have aggro, you can’t just hide, as the Mobs will run to you despite you being hidden.

Another big issue with Rogues is how things keep being added on, without any clear vision of how everything works together. There is no cohesive vision for things like Abilities and Talents. This is why we have so many Talents, that do the exact same thing, instead of getting some variation and actual choices. The sad thing is, despite getting new stuff bolted on to the old frame all the time, Rogues still always remain competitive.

It seems like Rogues are never broken enough to the point, where Blizzard feels a reason to invest in developing it to modern standards. Instead, we get a whole lotta uninspired addons, and a huge amount of redundant stuff in our kit. This lack of vision has also lead to the unnecessary Button Bloat, where pressing any single Button doesn’t really feel meaningful, powerful or fun.

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TLDR: Stealth and other Rogue Non-Combat Abilities have no place, function or use in Group PvE. Many of the potential Tools, that would’ve been perfect fits for the Rogue have been given to new Classes, while Rogues have been getting more versions of the same things they’ve had already. This has lead to uninspired and redundant Abilities and Talents, as well as Button Bloat and unfun Moment-to-Moment Gameplay. Pressing a button doesn’t matter, because you have to work so much harder to get the same results other Classes can achieve with less work, while they also provide a more fun experience.

[Honeybean-aggramar]

Class has been the staple in PvP and PvE for the best part of the entirety of WoW’s history. But sure, Blizzard secretly hates rogues.

[Arcia-ravenholdt]

Ah, that explains the toy that lets people bypass stealth.

You literally bind the target then use sp-eye glass and they can see you from anywhere in any direction. Yes, they don’t hate rogues. LOL

I’m sorry but… Let me put it into perspective for you. It is like forcing a mage to only fight in melee range. That is how important stealth is to a rogue. It is something integral to their design for both offensive and defensive play. It is not some sidepiece gimmick tacked onto the class, but the core it is built upon.

They’ve let people turn that off with a toy LOL

[Kensentme-ravencrest]

Shamans can go invisible? Since when

[Synthera-draenor]

The truth is that stealth is no longer relied upon as a fundamental of the rogue class.

They can operate completely fine dueling toe to toe due to sustained DPS (as opposed to burst in the past) and enhanced survivability like evasion, cloak, potion heal, smoke bomb, etc.

Unfortunately, this shatters the class fantasy as a stealthy burster into more of a duelist. If you want stealthy burst then marks hunter is a better option…

[Arcia-ravenholdt]

I mean, I think sub rogues in particular need stealth. Their entire schtick revolves around it. If you didn’t use stealth as a sub rogue you’d be losing a massive amount of damage upfront. Once you’re out of shadow dances you’ll really feel that lack of stealth.

The other two specs need it less, but i wouldn’t say they don’t need it.

There is also the defensive element of not getting attacked when you’re at a ridiculous range. You get hit with a snipershot it is already over basically. You can try to get close but they’ll already have a huge lead on you from the initiation.

Also, if we’re talking about group PVP (not arena)… Then it is ESSENTIAL for all rogues. I would argue why that is the case, but i’m hoping i shouldn’t have to as it is pretty obvious to anyone who has played rogue in group PVP.

[Synesta-twisting-nether]

That is completely wrong and you proved you have absolutely no clue how the class works. Currently every single rogue spec can be considered a birst spec that heavily depends on vanish/shadow dance windows as their main damage output.

Outlaw for crackshot windows
Sub for big burst during SD and using vanish to reduce cooldowns on everything else
Assa for empowered garrote as well as SD for the big burst on kingsbane

[Sinergy-turalyon]

Rogues are prob in worst state in TWW of all classes, so it’s pretty obvious that we get the first expansion legendary.

[Krreso-emerald-dream]

No. I mean, Subterfuge… that’s pure unconditional love