Do the lore has any role left in the game?

Let me make a historical example…
My country, germany, committed unspeakable war crimes during World War II against various different cultures of people in Europe. Now, several generations later the European people still were able to forgive germans in the end what they did and brought them back even on the true path of freedom and democracy.

Why should it be any different for the Draenei, after 10 000 years since they fled from Argus? They even had much more time to process the trauma, overcome it and forgive their mislead brothers and sisters in comparison to the historical example from me regarding my own country IRL.

I really don’t see how it is in any way unrealistic. There is even a word for that kind of behavior. Compassion.

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I see no problem with more choice and customization. Especially as a roleplayer :wink:

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Agreed.

And regarding the meme, there were already such incompatible stuff going on in the Lore since the Forsaken were introduced in WoW Lore.

For example, why can I as Holy Paladin heal a Death Knight with my Light Spells if those are “opposing forces”? Simple, I can heal the Death Knight not just because of gameplay, but also (as mentioned by the meme) by inflicting painful healing upon the Undead to heal the Body. That Death Knight may not like to feel that much pain again, but surely doesn’t want to die either, eh?

Edit: Or that one Death Knight boss in a raid from WotLK(?) that uses occasionally the Light even as a Scourge follower…

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I kinda liked the forsaken holy priest twist. Where they were still devout believers and chaneling the light, yet evoking it caused them to unravel themselves in doing so. Causing the Forsaken priest extreme pain if not worse when doing so. They were repenting of their own sin of being an undead by unraveling themselves through their own power doing good.

Lorewise, one could argue that the Holy Light still repairs the broken bones, flesh and spirit even if it is imbued by shadowmagics. The shadowmagics that is imbued will then either, get dispelled if cleansed totally, or yet again overtake the repaired dead parts again for reanimation - causing healing to be completed in a roundabout way.

The answer is of course game mechanics. Would be kinda aweful if you would have to bring shadowmend or death coils to heal undead players. Would be kinda troll if you could oneshot your friend with Lay on Hands. Funny, but yeah.

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The second biggest insult to the lore - Goblin Shamans - is already in the game. So there is only a small step-up to the biggest insult - Goblin Paladins and Druids.

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The most funny thing is characters like these are ALL AROUND in wow, eredar paladins and lf warlocks are not only canon, there is no lore that contradicts their existence. Damn the fact that Naaru have this cycle of light and dark thing with their death going on only confirms that polar opposite in wow cosmology doesn’t mean “incompatible at all”.
OP and all other whiners about polar oposite forces or some BS don’t even know lore, there is no good reasons for them to complain it’s basically making up their own reasons on why they should be angry.
WoW community in a nutshell.

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I like games which offer options.

You have the right to play a lore proper combinations.

I have the right to play a class with any aesthetic i like

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All these choices have done is to give the player more liberties to how they want their character to be. Which in turn makes it easier for player to be immersed with them.

The various races in wow are not single minded collectives, yet people keep insisting that they are…

The addition of more skin colors and tones were great. But yeah, unfortunately in the move to desperately not being racists, they inadvertently did a racist move with changing the colors of already named npcs (Because it signals both that a certain skin tone is expendable while another is in desperate need of support at the expense of others). They should have sough to instead populate the city and empty buildings with newer npcs.

As an mmo, there is thousands upon thousands of people that play this game. Every single one with their own interpetations and thresholds for immersion.

For me one of the most immersion breaking things is to have things that could very easily be a player customization thrown at us but isn’t because reasons. Like miss-matching armor weights, ability to communicate and cooperation with any player of any race or… High Elves.

Having someone come dressed as a christmas tree run by me feels less immersion breaking than what i mentioned over. For i know they are just another playing that stays immersed in the game in their own way.

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Do you intentionally ignore available information considering how this customization will be unlocked?
They won’t be a demons, they won’t even have any distinct racial abilities or passives, basically they are penitent eredar, there is even no green eye color that could somehow indicate fel influence.

Imo, some lore can evolve and work. Not sure why it was necessary to give lightforged draenei warlocks, but other draenei, sure. Times have changed, and some of them are to be found fiddling with dodgy magic elsewhere as NPC’s already. They are individuals that can pick a new path.

Lightforged however, I do not understand , because I thought the whole reason they were lightforged were that they were holy all the way through.

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…And this is very well said.

Wow lore doesn’t matter anymore. It’s passed down through so many writers, there’s no consistency or sense left in it. Open up as many options to the players as possible at this point, which has its own value.

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Passing through multiple writers isn’t as much of an issue. It’s that the writers are incapable of narrative consistency for the overarching plot that causes problems.

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Lightforged were created to literally be super soldiers to fight legion more effectively.
They are dollar store space marines (literally they are pure homage on astartes and even have references in npc quotes), there’s a reason why they are not all priests and paladins. Their ritual involves something about “defeating inner darkness” but what stops them from acquiring new darkness after millenia of war against demons. Space marines were built to be uncorruptable too, see how it turned out.
Anyway we already have character named Oman in new warlock questline, you can look into it if you want to see perspective on how blizzard see lightforged warlocks

A few chose to be undead… 99% of the Forsaken were brainwashed and conditioned by Sylvanas and her “cult” , sorry people
A truly repentative Undead should just end her own misrable existence right and there
After all, the Undead’s existance is… basically horrible. - as you even worded it, a sin
They are trapped in their own rotting bodies, the dark magic that dragged back their soul against their will is very imperfect, so the senses are dull
It is safe to say - and correct me if I’m wrong - the undead hate their own existence
They had Sylvanas’ personality Cult to cling in to and of course each other, because they were rejected by the living and had nowhere to go (except back to their grave, obviously)
Depression and self hate but with a strong sense of community - not faction pride or loayality, they always were loyal to each other and Sylvanas
Sylvanas is gone, and they formed a council to forge themselves a new parh and future… and the question is simple: why?
Before Shadowlands they were afraid, it was uncertain what waits them (or totally certain, Darkness and Oblivion said by their Queen and their mortal teaching and faith)
But now?
Everything is okay
I mean, there is a New Arbiter and he is very kind hearted one, firmly belives, everyone deserves a chance and proper afterlife, eternal rest and peace and joy and happines, a hugg and probably puppies or kittens, depending their preference
And Kalia and the leaders were there to see his ascension and personally knew the guy, they know he is a decent, honest, soft hearted fellow who wants to help the Multiverse… wants every soul to reach its proper destination and find peace
Now… this obviously a “problem”
Why the Undead should continnue their horrible existence? Something that was forced on to them and hated every minute of it, when it is 100% they will be judged by this guy and would find their peace?
It is basically the variation of the “why Azeroth not converted in to a global Death Cult” question, but more focused on the Undead

Like to many other, sadly… thats why the dracthyr can’t use their own wings
:dracthyr_cry_animated:

This is a bit similar to the Lightforged Warlock “problem” - not a problem at all actually
We witness how draenei are turned into Lightforged. The Forge of Aeons reinforces a draenei’s mind, body, and soul with the power of the light after facing their inner demons and their inner turmoil
But this not means you are necesarily have to be “good”.
T’paartos faced his memories and fears, striking down physical manifestations of them. His Lightforged trial with him confronting T’paartos the Fallen, an image of his darkness who tempted him to leave the Light behind and embrace the Fel.
But a Lightforged Warlock (or Draenei) are not leaving the Light behind!
A Warlock - according the visual guide - are magical practitioners that seek to understand darker magics, among other fel-based and destructive spells. While many warlocks willingly follow the Burning Legion, there are those who work against it, using their magic to fight against evil.
Legion class preview even states, though they often pledge themselves to the service of noble causes and are not innately evil, their desire to understand darker magics and exercise unwavering command over demonic forces breeds mistrust among even their closest allies.
According the WoW game guide: In the face of demonic power, most heroes see death. Warlocks see only opportunity. Dominance is their aim, and they have found a path to it in the dark arts.
The ritual of Lightforging reinforces a draenei’s mind, body, and soul with the power of the light - so you are strong both mentally, spiritually and phisically. You have an extra layer of deffense of the Fel’s corrosive effect (you can sey, the Light already claimed you, and a jelous Force it is, guards what it have…)
During the trials you faced your inner demons, fears and weaknesses… and conquered them! Any weakness a Demon could exploit are gone! And you already - arguably - insane enough to be in a Cult. Yes. It is a cult mooooom.
The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies!
The Light seeks to rule, dominate, “guide” and uphold Order and Law and Justice - things that are not really defined by any universal principle, but the individual - thats why “evil” fanatics, Crimsons and so on, even one of Kel’Thuzad’s Horseman are capable to utilize it and no divine punshiment comes down to strip of their power.
What is the ultimate form of domintion and punsihment in the case of the Demons if not Demonology and the art of the Warlocks?

“By divinie right I command thu , vile creature to fight and die in the name of the Light and for me! Again… again… and again! Even Death will not save you from the wrath and the judgment of the Lightforged! By my sanctified blood I will seal our deal, our pact will be your chain and you will kill your own despicable kind because the Light… and ME wills it! OBEY!”

A Man’ari commited horrible crimes duing her probably 15K+ years of existence as a Demon.
And you know who else commited horrible crimes?
Us
The champions of Azeroth
WoW setup is… well… nothing, you are murderhobo #27773992 who would sell his grandma for a handfull of gold or would do and already done anything, including horrible things for pocket change or shiny trinkets; sold our souls and land for a handfull of glasspearls
You can’t name one, even one crime we don’t commited already at least once - okay, except the 18+ themed, “R”-worded ones (tho’ Goldshire… exist, so… )

"Because he rather liked people. It was major failing in a demon. Oh, he did his best to make their short lives miserable, because that was his job, but nothing he could think up was half as bad as the stuff they thought up themselves. They seemed to have a talent for it. It was built into the design, somehow. They were born into a world that was against them in a thousand little ways, and then devoted most of their energies to making it worse. Over the years Crowley had found it increasingly difficult to find anything demonic to do which showed up against the natural background of generalized nastiness. There had been times, over the past millennium, when he’d felt like sending a message back Below saying, Look we may as well give up right now, we might as well shut down Dis and Pandemonium and everywhere and move up here, there’s nothing we can do to them that they don’t do to themselves and they do things we’ve never even thought of, often involving electrodes. They’ve got what we lack. They’ve got imagination. And electricity, of course. One of them had written it, hadn’t he…”Hell is empty, and all the devils are here.”
―Sir Terry Pratchett, Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch

Similarly, no Man’ari Eredar that sit down, thinks and actively try, are capable to come up something - either solo or with an army on her side - the “Champions of Azeroth” not done already to ourselves and with each other

And we don’t even pretend we want to change!
Why should a Man’ari be any different?
Besides, we worked with ltieral Demons and most of them were quite nice, like Matron Mother Malevolence
Or remember Sal’salabim? From TBC?
Sal’salabim is a quest giver located in the World’s End Tavern in the neutral Shattrath City. He is a rebel mo’arg engineer who has taken up residence in the Sha’tari capital (yes, in the middle of Draenei-town and Naaru HQ), drinking away his sorrows
Daglop the Imp, Calydus, Avrus Illwhisper (okay he was purged of his demonic form and become a Night Elf again, but still), the Man’ari Val’zuun…

Demons have individual personalities like any other races…

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It’s still a massive oversight in WoW as the game itself states that Fel, Scourge, Void and Light magic don’t mix properly. Being a tiefling still makes you partially non-deamonic and therefore holy magic might only sting rather than damage you when used.

Forsaken priests feel pain when they cast their spells. They would literally explode if they become Paladins.

Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves becoming Death Knights was an issue, but before that it was them being shadow priests or using holy magic. Now both races run around wielding Fel magic too.

Blizzard just doesn’t address this. Not any of it. These all have massive lore implications that need to be respected. Respect isn’t ignoring them or avoiding them but developing them.

We need more than just random text NPCs telling us, “oh yeah, we’ve always been here lol.”

SHOW us how we got around the incompatiblies.

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Would either have to have a actual explanation OR should be just be made clear that whatever the players are is just not canon. I mean that’s how I first tried to view with priests, such as LF Draenei not really being able to be shadow priests in lore that it’s just the player mechanic.

Surely you’ll link exact source where game states that, because if it really is the case then discipline spec is lorebreaking, damn these priests they broke whole lore.

There is no logical connection in this statement, why feeling pain equals BOOM?

Lightforged draenei should become regular draenei for sure, why void elves is a problem is beyond me, undead sure are resistant to void whispers but they are not incapable of using void and shadow, if it would’ve been the case then undead SPs and warlocks are lorebreaking and game mechanic too, don’t you think that this all looks like a stretch and y’all just making up lore restrictions?

If they can add tauren rogues. Then they can add pretty much any class option to any race at this point.

Wdym taurens are the best rogues, they are literally covered in HIDE