Does Winter Grasp (and all EPIC BG's) need to be looked at?

Community General Discussion
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yet another loss. but is it bad luck or a flaw?

  1. the walls are taking AGES to be destroyed. literally even with 8-12 tanks all on a wall it is taking minutes to bring just 1 down. have they been broken with scaling? they seem to have FAR too much hp.
  2. cannons. why are they respawning? maybe my memory is wrong, but i dont recall them EVER rerspawning ever since WotLK. i know IoC cannons can be rebuilt, but wg cannons just seem to be respawning, and within about 7-10 minutes too.

are i alone on these 2 issues above or are others seeing this?

also, in about 10 WG matches in SL so far, i’ve only been the defender once. this doesn’t seem random. is there a pattern? is it broken?

i also make 1 suggestion beyond fixing the 3 above items. maybe there should be a “retreat” option which ends the game?

there comes a point, when you mathamatically cant win as the attacker. all 3 towers destroyed, no walls down, no workshops, you can see your team has obviously given up from how spread all over the map they are, or massing in the wrong are, but you still have to wait 10-20 minutes for the game to end. leaving can mean the loss of the small honor you have already had to sit through to get, and you get a deserter buff.

having a retreat option would actually help the defenders more cause it means they dont have to sit around for 10-20 minutes when they KNOW they’re going to win, and the attackers dont have to wait 10-20 minutes for the scraps of honor they will get for losing.

also, on an unrelated but related note cause i dont think theres a thread up for it yet, how come, if horde are meant to be so dominate in pvp, that i keep losing game after game since SL came out? im usually a 50-50 player, but the rates recently have been terrible and have made me log out more than just once.

i just dont understand what it is? are there more bots? whats going on? cause people are not talking AT all, they are doing totally the wrong thing and its all just going wrong.

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Depends what group your with and what tactics they play. Most of the time they rush sunken get 10 kills die rez rush to broken build demo 12 of them knock down walls, while horde go for towers. By the time they noticed they losted.

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I always win when defending. I always lose when attacking.

So yeah, there might be some tweaks needed to the Battleground.

If I should point out another concern, then it’s probably the time the Battleground currently takes alongside the flow of battle.

When the defending team starts getting ahead it’s practically impossible to turn the tide, so to speak, for the attacking team.
And that can happen really early on. Within the first push, if the defenders get a majority of vehicles and a base or two, then it’s basically over. And then you’re still left with 20+ minutes where the attacking team are just getting slaughtered and it’s incredibly frustrating.

And I don’t think the issue lies with the players. I’ve had teams where we’ve been attacking and it’s been stellar communication and team play, and still we got obliterated.
I’ve had times on defense where no one seemed to do anything in coordination with each other, and still we won easily.

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4

Imo this BG shouldnt even be in game. It has very little to do with pvp apart from like one big fight at begining.

Also its soo long, we can all agree that its usualy atacking side that lose ( not always but i dont think its 50/50) .

When u are defending, your chances of wining are higher, but u actualy cant win, even if your enemy gives up, u have to sit there and wait till timer runs out, this is imo realy bad design.

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Wintergrasp should be removed from the game unless it receives a complete overhaul.

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Vehicle damage/HP used to be linked to your item level, not sure if it’s still that way.

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7

what about the instant loss on isle of conquest nowadays
horde goes docks as new meta forgets to interrupt healers/flag cap and give up

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Please write Wintergrasp in the title, WG is a little vague and the Mods and Devs might not get what it means.
I agree, something needs to be done about this horrible “Epic” Battleground. Being on the attacking side is almost a guaranteed loss.

P.s. Make sure you guys use the in-game suggestion tool to tell the Devs to fix Wintergrasp. I already have. It’s better than just making a thread here.

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If you’re gonna lose, instant is the way to go.

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Honestly it needs a rework yeah.

It feels fine on the defense because you have always acces to vehicles and the enemy will always come to you, so its easy to get kills as alatecomer.

On the offense however you have no guarantee for permanent vehicles despite being the side wich needs it the most to win. When people leave , its impossible to get a proper rank to build vehicles as a late comer.

Also the alliance is on the offense 99% of the time. wich is why i absolutely hate this bg. Its basicly a guaranteed loss when on the offense as defense is heavily favored

thats just the mentality. If you talk and try to get people to do something people will tell you to stf u and threaten to report you

3 Likes
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yes wasting the others time who queued to win and instead got into a honor leech group sounds better

1 Like
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It needs a revamp in my opinion. First it was almost impossible for the defenders to win, now it is almost impossible for the attackers to win.

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I play epic bgs on almost a daily basis. WG is busted as you said the walls take too long, this leads to usually the attackers losing the match. Either the HP of the sieges and demos would need to doubled/tripled… or nerf the walls.

Alterac valley needs the scaling to be fixed. The boss is usually killable with 1 tower or 2, that shouldnt be possible. It’s always the team that rushes the fastest 1 or 2 towers down wins regardless if you defend or not.

Isle of conquest needs some fixing too, I think that docks is too dominant strategy. Maybe nerf the glaives or something. Last patch was hangar, so balance is almost impossible.

Ashran seems fine by me.

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Here is a leaked beta map for the new WG revamp coming in next major patch. Made by top artist/designers in industry leading tools like MS paint.
https://imgur.com/a/AJtoFCc

Basically both Horde/Ally have a base and therefore no more 1 side defensive / 1 side offensive.

They both have to defend their bases, while sending some players to capture the 3 workshops in the middle of the map. And then they need to use the vehicles to attack the enemy fort while keeping some players behind for defence of their own fort.

The ally/horde have 2 towers each at the start in addition to their own forts. The opposite faction can if they wish to, attack these towers and destroy them to heavily weaken the main forts defence making taking down the walls of that fort even easier.

There is a timer and when the timer completes if no side has yet won it will pick the faction that has made most overall progress on the towers/walls as winner.

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i may be wrong, but it seems the current standard for WG is for both sides to rush the north east workshop, and basically whoever wins there is usually the winner, though the defender can often recover and still win. but attacker will lose if they lose there. i would ask is there some other way of doing it, but everyone just seems to rush that ws that no other option could win as no one is listening.

very true. and its bad enough when people often feel that way anyway (leaving the bg after one death etc), let alone when the game/map is also against you.

while removing it would not be my first call, it does need an overhaul. also all epic bg’s involve some level of pve. if thats good or not? i dont know.

yeah, the tanks take quite a while to kill now too. maybe some of it is due to peoples lower ilvl currently (i am 167) but the damage output of tanks is def too low for the hp of the walls, but then again, they seem to do high damage to players? not tested this fort certain, but if that is the case, we dont want to increase tank damage, we want to decrease wall hp.

while any dev who actually plays the game should know what wg is, you do have a point. also, i have changed title to include all epic bg’s cause they all have some form of issue atm.

i have noticed this after seeing it win. before that i berated the “all docks” players. whatever it is, the glaives have been buffed or something, because 2 glaives were able to melt a wall in one game, and in another, 3 glaives melted the wall when the allys had both hanger AND ws and the horde gate was at 60%. when we got the ally gate down, the horde gate was still at 15%.

why enter pvp, in any game, with that attitude. i dont give up unless its mathematically impossible, or its 100% obvious that my team has given up.

really? i’ve seen it 90% horde in attack? :\

yes. i got that litrally in the 2nd last game. and i joined losing at 1400-400 and i got blamed for losing xD

you bring up the main points of each bg. very good. i would go with nerfing Wall hp though. otherwise tanks will destroy everyone on foot.

yup. again right. we are back to the rush first wins. people pulling the last boss with 3, sometimes even 4 towers up and still winning! usually its 2 towers (the middle 2) but in efforts to get the kill first, people are starting before the last towers are even taken. basically negates the point of the entire bg.

you are right. glaives are doing too much damage atm, and as such docks is new meta. you can control EVERY point except docks (4/5), and still lose. but you are also right, they dont seem able to balance between the airship guns, glaives and demos.

i would maybe agree. i would mention though, that the game is often won well before the last boss is killable, and as such people can never do the quest to kill the enemy boss. last game, we had won while it had just finished capping the middle point. (crossroads?). while not effecting pvp, i would suggest changing this quest to “win ashran” rather than “kill enemy boss”.

almost sounds like IoC in the snow? and also makes the point of WG pointless lore wise. (not that lore matters to pvp i know but still.)

the original point of winning WG was to get access to VoA. as such, why would killing a base outside VoA matter?

also…

obviously this is a joke statement (i mean, just look at the image. even i could do better on Paint), but is this actually true? if so, then no wonder the game gets in such a bad state :\

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pretty much yeah, people rush sunken ring and if the offensive side loses there. then its gg people will leave and it will be impossible to get a rank as a late comer

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this is also an important point.

no rank, no tank!

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While thats true, most of them still involve a lot of pvp ( afaik, havent olayed them in a while) and unlike in WinGrasp, u arent forced to sit there for 40mins waiting till end even if u are wining hard… Thats worst part about it.

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19

Defending is much harder IMO so I kinda don’t agree that it needs to be looked at from an attacker’s POV.

Too many people ignore catapults and there’s always one idiot that will constantly tell everyone else not to get catapults. You need a couple people running catapults at all times to keep everything else off your siege tanks using the flamers.

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very true. AV and ashran can be over extremely fast. its funny that both which involve vehicles are slow (IoC & WG) but even then, yes, the winner is punished in WG having to wait the clock down.

how so? the walls just seem to have too much HP. and while i dont know if we can get a number on that (cause we cant target the walls to see their hp), they are going down super slow.

you are right though, catapults are underused. however, even that is odd now. flames used to basically kill a non tank. now that doesn’t seem the case (at my ilvl). but it is a balance, the less demo/siege you have the slower the wall goes down. you cant have too many catas or the wall will never drop. and a lot of the time, demos/siege are getting taken out by other demo/siege & cannons.

which is quite funny cause in the past, it was quite easy for a group of catas to take out the towers. you didn’t need demo/siege.

also, no one is mentioning the cannons. was i wrong in thinking they didn’t respawn in the past. cause they keep coming back now.

2 Likes