Don't release ICC Buff too early!

[Erreg-burning-legion]

but you can disable it <3

[Erreg-burning-legion]

and they don’t have to, they can disable buff

[Nikkyblond-firemaw]

But unless WCL (not blizzard) change how they log stuff we wont know if the person is a muppet clown or a decent player.

[Erreg-burning-legion]

dueeede, anyone that’s not a “muppet clown” and is looking for a challenge plays retail, classic is for bad dads that can’t handle complex rotations and mechanics XD

[Nikkyblond-firemaw]

And yet you need a buff to your raid group to be able to beat ICC. How ironic.

[Terek-nethergarde-keep]

@Nikkyblond-firemaw

But unless WCL (not blizzard) change how they log stuff we wont know if the person is a muppet clown or a decent player.

Imagine being a “muppet clown” yourself for trusting WCL. Out of curiosity, what exactly a player needs to do to be “decent”?

[Terres-ravenholdt (Terres)]

Hypothetical question:

Is the buff good, design-wise? Would it had improved previous raids? Like Ulduar, Sunwell Plateau, Black Temple, Serpentshrine Cavern and so on.

[Daigar-gehennas]

WCL should just not accept logs with buff at all. The “just disable the buff” problem would be solved instantly, since most players would then disable it.

[Nikkyblond-firemaw]

In my opinion (others have other opinions) clearing HC bosses pre-nerf. If you haven’t cleared X boss without a Buff you are prob not worth taking to a raid. ANd no i have not killed PP on HC.

[Aeula-argent-dawn (Aeula)]

Too little too late.

[Terek-nethergarde-keep]

I agree you. But that’s not my point. WCL means nothing. I would take someone that knows how to do mechanics, regardless if he killed a boss before or after buff. And I did not killed Sindragosa on HC. Only 10/12 ICC 25m progression by now.

[Terres-ravenholdt (Terres)]

@Terres-ravenholdt

Hypothetical question:

Is the buff good, design-wise? Would it had improved previous raids? Like Ulduar, Sunwell Plateau, Black Temple, Serpentshrine Cavern and so on.

Going to answer my own question ;p but I hope someone will consider giving their perspective.

In my view I think that the buff is bad. If the buff is needed it’s because encounters are poorly balanced. If the point of the buff is so that “everyone can see the content”, then it’s superfluous as that’s kind of what normal mode is for. I also don’t think that everyone should automatically be allowed to see all content without putting some effort in. This is not a single player game. It’s one of those things that distinguishes Classic (vanilla) from Retail, and one thing I would have loved to see get the #somechanges treatment.

[Druidmagisch-firemaw]

@Nikkyblond-firemaw

But unless WCL (not blizzard) change how they log stuff we wont know if the person is a muppet clown or a decent player.

WCL can easily normalize for the buff, it’s a physical buff with uptime that you can track. Based on what week it is the logging can normalize damage to a 0% buff niveau.

@Nikkyblond-firemaw

In my opinion (others have other opinions) clearing HC bosses pre-nerf. If you haven’t cleared X boss without a Buff you are prob not worth taking to a raid. ANd no i have not killed PP on HC.

Depends on what you want to do for a raid. If someone killed LK HC with 30% buff, i’ll take them to LK HC when we have the 30% buff turned on. I don’t particularly think that prebuff kills are a good filter for new guild recruits, you’ll almost certainly see more relevant data trialling them for a week or two.

Unless you’re one of these guilds that gets enough geared recruits with otherwise okay ish logs and experience that you can be picky, but none of us here are.

Before anyone flames that this is bad player cope: I killed LK HC 3 weeks ago, so no.

[Kalji-firemaw]

Give us Ruby Sanctum in January

[Nikkyblond-firemaw]

And how will you know if there is no proof of it?

[Terek-nethergarde-keep]

@Nikkyblond-firemaw

And how will you know if there is no proof of it?

You can know if a person does mechanics correctly if you watch the “Replay” from WCL for a boss fight and reading the “Timeline” from “wipefest gg” when you press “Mechanics”.

Also, when I said “WCL means nothing”, I should have specify that Parses means nothing. A lot people blindly trusting those parse numbers. That’s why I don’t care if WCL takes in consideration the buff or not.

[Nikkyblond-firemaw]

Yea, i rather not deepdive in to peoples logs on every kill they had on a fight. If i need 1-2 ppl sure, but if i need more, no way in hell.

[Hurutosepe-earthshaker]

would be nice yes, crossing my fingers

[Ashaïa-auberdine]

@Barnemonster-ravencrest

We’ve seen this mentality before.

Yes, and this is what gave us the garbage that is retail today, and what Classic was supposed to not be about.
But it seems people are idiots that will just redo the same mistakes over and over again, so we’re again with LFG (and an interserver one to boot) and ICC buff, while the exact same debates that were raging 15 years ago are repeating the exact same arguments.

Oh well, WotLK was already the expansion with one foot into retail, so I guess this is just the final line before bowing out.

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Cilyx-firemaw

Dear Blizzard
Please dont add the ICC buff too soon
Give the semi HC guilds a chance to clear some more heroics and/or prog on LK HC first
Cata is not out for a loooong time, and it will be such a slug, to do ICC with the buff for so many months.
So please let us have the challenge for at least a couple of months to keep ICC interesting. People will get bored of ICC super quick without a challenge or a goal.
So please dont release the buff this year at least!

im really hyped for those buffs

with they would implement 10 % each time instead playing with 5 % buffs.

people are dishonest here - full buff ICC is the real ICC most people fondly rememebred from original wolk .

got my hunter almost to 5800 gs since it was boosted after blizzcon im ready to kill some hc bosses :P:P:P