Firstly, this is not a complaint or a moan I am just genuinely struggling to understand this. I will still be representing the pink team.
So i see wowhead released the m+ dps tier list. Pally is C tier. Tbh I look at the tier lists but I play what i enjoy (Ret pally is my main regardless) but what i am struggling with is in dungeons and heroics I usually top the dps meter. I get scaling plays a part but with pally’s utility and survivability how have they ended up as C tier?
As stated at the begining I am not complaining just curious really 
Probably because lack of single target dps
Ret AoE is fine, which is why you’re top in dungeons, loads of padding.
Unfortunately Ret Single Target is severely lacking, which is why we drop down the list.
Anyone who follows those tier lists is a moron.
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All spec can complete all contents. Enjoy the game, TWW is an excellent expansion so far.
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If you go to wowhead you can click on the class and they explain their reasoning.
In the case of ret its the lack of ST damage in dungeons. Ideally you want a class that can perform in ST, MT and in MT specifically, Prio damage and uncapped AoE. Be very tanky, utility (stuns and kicks) and provide a raid buff.
No class has all 7 things. But some get closer than others.
But the most important thing : class tiers are always wrong. They describe what would the “best” class be in a difficult encounter (top 0.1% if played mathematically perfect).
So unless you do that type of content, and/or, you can play mathematically perfect (which none of us in the forums do)…
Then tiers are an absolute waste of time.
Don’t forget that those tier-lists aren’t really relevant for the average Joe, they don’t reach a difficulty where this all matters.
Secondly, read the explanation on Wowhead;
Now you’re back to how it was in Dragonflight where decisions as to how you’re spending your Holy Power really determine what you’re doing damage to. Ret is also just a bit behind the mark on Single Target while being okay on AOE. I see a world where Ret gets a ST buff aimed at raid and it ends up being better in M+ as Season 1 continues.
So it’s just a bit less “auto damage to everyone” and ST is slightly lackluster. However, the latter can easily change with a couple % buff eventually, leaving just the requirement to choose what you do for damage…which is quite sensible and should prob be the case for all dps specs imo.
Wake me up when deva evokes is the winner 
DPS tier lists are literally useless.
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Ret is god damn champion of aoe dps delivery and lower than middle on single target. Possible, tier list that you learn is about single target.
Anyway, not tier list play the game, but you.
It’s true, but many will invite people depending on these lists.
Tier lists are a quite complicated topic a lot players seem to misinterpret quite heavily.
What I’ve seen is that a lot of people think that’s significantly harder to clear the available content without meta classes, which is simply not the case. Every single aspect of this game is perfectly doable with every class and every specc in the game.
If you’re not going for the top 0.1% or RWF, it’s not relevant to you. If all you ever do is to get portals in M+, it also doesn’t matter to you.
Furthermore I think a lot of people interpret tier lists on an individual level. What I mean by this is that they just see, for example:
“Oh wow Prot warrior is just B tier right now. Probably not really tanky and low damage then.”
The thing is that this is not the case. Tier lists are heavily influenced by what the overall meta is going to be. Meta classes are usually not meta because they by themselves are overpowered but because they are strong by themselves but also synergize very well with other currently strong classes and/or dungeon mechanics of the current rotation.
Imagine, for example, the meta comp would consist of mage, ele and aug. Of course a prot warriors battle shout would get next to no value in that comp.
Or imagine a season where most of the incoming damage is magic damage. A guardian druid won’t do very well in those because even though he hits armor cap all the time, amor doesn’t mitigate magical damage at all.
So the whole “meta idea” heavily starts to crumble when you get into pugging unless you’re spending a lot of time to wait for every single class of the current “god comp” to apply to your key, with the proper ilvl and proper rio.
Also, especially in lower keys (so the sub-portal range for example and even higher), a lot of “meta classes” won’t even live up to the meta potential because neither their rotation nor cd usage nor utility would get utilized by players of that level.
It’s great that you’re waiting for Aug evokers in +5 keys but chances are that your Aug evoker is not prolonging your CC effects in the correct situation (or even at all) and that he might not remove a single bleed effect from anybody and that your other 2 DPS players are not doing their rotation perfectly/timing their CDs correctly to even make it worth having an Aug evoker in the first place.
In such a scenario, having an Aug evoker was a detriment. A third regular DPS class would’ve been better, even if it was a non-meta DPS.
TLDR;
Tier lists don’t matter unless you’re going to be a top 0.1% player. If you’re a regular player, don’t break a sweat over them. The only issue you might face is that other players might take tier lists too seriously for the content they’re doing and won’t invite off-meta classes that often.
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Tier lists dont factor in human elements. A good player will do more damage with a c tier class than a bad player will with a s tier class.
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Another factor is also how easy a class is. If you’re inviting random players, you’re more likely to get a valuable addition to your group, if they play an easier class. For example usually Ret Paladins will do better than enhancement shamans regardless of what is Meta. Now of course, also the better the gear of a player, the better they usually do of course, so tier lists are really kind of irrelevant for me.
I would disagree. Easier classes/specs attract less experienced players. BM hunters are the stereotypical example for that, and paladins in S3 and S4 in DF also.
The average enhancement shaman is likely more skilled than the average ret.
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Tier lists are subjective based upon the person writing it.
Also when you see a DPS/Healing/Tanking class being “S” tier, that doesn’t mean that you will be in that top 1% of that class population who will be min/maxing to the point, where you’re pushing out every single digit of DPS.
You should always play a class, which you enjoy. Never play a class because some random on the Internet says “this is S tier & this is D tier” etc.
It would have to be a rogue that says something like this after being so poorly ranked for how many major patches now? 
Who cares about ranks as long as bosses go down? And rogues have always been fine.
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