for the average player (read the majority) there will be nothing left apart from WQ chores and maybe renown grind after like ~1-2 months.
Sure, the trifecta of Dungeons/Raids/Rated PVP was always there, but it has been several expansions now the “endgame” is not available to casual/average players. Due to a design of the game but also because the community no longer accepts any sort of “inefficiency” in any content.
in WotLK your daily farmable Heroics dropped ilvl200 gear, that was on par with 10man gear and the best gear was 213 - dropping from a raid that arguably my grandpa could progress and have fun with. 13 ilvl difference between welfare and TOP gear. Was it too easy? Maybe it was, go ask the 15m people who were subbed back then.
Now in DF heroics (daily farmable) are 359 and Top raid gear is 424. That’s crazy difference, not considering that average have no chance of clearing Mythic raid, while they likely could do Naxx25.
With no sense of power progression, endgame reachable just to fraction of the playerbase, there is no reason for average player to keep playing/paying after they are done with “casual” content.
hardcore players already have mounts, achis, tittles, why do they also need ~60ilvl power difference?
Blizz is trying so hard with all the promos and specials to keep players around, but solution is as basic as it gets in an RPG - give people the loot.
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on the other Hand, You have Proffessions that can craft Decent gear, also you have WQ comming up all the time, then you have the weekly’s like Dragonbane Keep, Feast, all the Rares, fishing for amusement, Races, even M0 is nothing, and a little M+/pvp isnt bad. so if you say ±60 ilvl difference is truly False.
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You have no idea what success or failure looks like.
If Blizz sell a gazillion copies of the game and 80% of people leave after a month that might be success.
Will people leave? Yes, its inevitable. The people that stay are the ones that like mythic plus / raids / pvp or can make their own goals.
I think its part of the accepted cycle if I’m honest.
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It’s 359, but typo is fine.
My only issue as a casual muppet is the required reputation to continue the DF main story. Although that’s not an issue as I’m not in a hurry. Is it harder to do pugs than be in a guild? Maybe, but we are different with different needs.
I wanted to farm HC shoes as a tank, couldn’t get it after 15 runs, I ordered a craft. Works like a charm.
Elites drop stuff as well, M0-M5 can be farmed etc.
And please don’t say inevitable, I can’t help but hear Zovaal’s voice.
in other words, BFA and Shadowlands was great success then. I totally missed that it was Jailer’s plan all along to keep just the 10%
Too bad that neither of those, and it seems DF also did not sell that well (hence the freebies with purchase just 2 weeks after release. Then there is also the fact its mostly casual actually paying for subs, because most of the hardcore tryhards have stockpiles of tokens already.
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Not what I said at all. But as someone else said, nuance is lost on these forums.
The ability to pull figures out of ones jacksie and present them as the ground truth isn’t though.
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it was you who pulled the “80% will quit, its normal” number?
In what kind of business loosing 80% of customers is considered success?
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The if at the start makes it quite clear it was a hypothetical.
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well, in case of BFA and SL, it was quite literal, possibly very accurate
i don’t see DF being much different honestly, sure there are no borrowed power grinds, but those were more of an nuance for the endgame players that needed to readjust to meta all the time and re-grind, rest is pretty much the same (failing) concept
for casuals, borrowed power was actually some “long term accessible power progression”, problem was the way it was locked to very specific zone (Toggast, Korthia…) or activity, while for example, the Legion artifact power was at least available everywhere.
Major problem with all the borrowed powers was that it was not account wide and it was way too much development time wasted on something just to be scrapped.
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The end-game is reachable if people want to actually reach it and are willing to put the effort into climbing the ladder. But most of the scenarios are: Player A hasn’t done even an LFR yet applies for a mythic raid = gets declined, signs up for a +20 with his “best dungeon” being done at +5, = gets declined obviously. So what the said person does then? You guessed it: Comes screaming on the forums about “big bad elitists gatekeeping him”.
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In terms of gear level, I would never expect to be on a par with players who do the high-end stuff, so long as I have a level of gear that makes me capable of killing most regular mobs solo then I am quite satisfied.
I like to play lots of alts who all end up with pretty mediocre gear, but one thing I always recognise is that there can be a considerable gap in performance between dps classes wearing similar levels of gear.
I think the ‘gap’ you talk about will not be as bad as you think, I’m going for some of that 385 stuff you get from doing the Elemental Storms, seems pretty cool to me.
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So your main complaint is that you don’t get the highest loot in heroics…
And because of the the game is dying.
Gotcha
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point is that people gave up trying at this point, even if the time or skill would technically allow them. Few weeks into M+ season, there will be no hope to get into key that would actually drop and upgrade for you.
Even now few days into S1, many who are at ~375, meaning they did M0 and some crafts/rares have little hope to get to M+5 whatt is the closest to drop upgrade for them.
As a ~375 DPS, it might take you hour and very likely more to even get a chance for tiny upgrade. And all that running the same 8 dungeons over and over.
and i am not even try to compare the difficulty of endgame of something like Naxx25 and some recent Mythic raids, the fact that ~400 guilds or so managed to clear last tier in the world speaks for itself. Well, at least the 10k players had fun i guess?
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If you take gear and dungeons and endgame so seriously, you should consider joining a guild. Maybe…
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What do you mean with not available? If you can’t get into M+, start your own group and run your own key, and for PvP they literally implemented solo queue this expansion if you missed that.
Sure, raiding guilds are very weird like they want you to provide a resume of your raiding career and do the WAIS-4 before hiring you, but both M+ and PvP are really available.
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We will get 10.5 by then as it is on PTR already and have the tradepost to play with, also white and grey item collection for mogs. I’m going to play wotlk classic at the same time. Having all my time dedicated to one game doesn’t really work any more without me doing M+ etc which is meh.
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Thanks for share with us your ideas. Really appreciated. NEXT!
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What I hear from guild mates the professions can create gear equal to Mythic raids? Am I wrong on this?
i believe the materials for that require bop raid drops
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