I would never go with II I think it’s a bad design, insert all my comments to our mastery here seeing as it’s almost exactly the same, but plain worse
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Agree, but deathspeaker proc build is just so strong right now. The flay/dot build is what I personally am most excited for. I’d like a mastery that actually had some sort of interaction with our whole kit, like, maybe our damage just outright dots the target based on dmg done(would work with a dot free build too), or our mastery be directly linked to DP, since it’s our spender, specifically increasing the damage that does. Just spitballing ideas. 
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Would be nice, but it’s obvious to me that they’re never going to give us dots for free. No damaging spell that also leaves a dot, no letting the pet dot, or your initial vf/da cast, no dots that spread or jump when targets die. And they do no damage and expire in 20 seconds, but we need to do it for mastery.
I was playing my moonkin yesterday, like 40 ilvls lower and suddenly not struggling killing arrows on Sylvanas because the dots do a little bit of upfront damage. On shadow I have such a hard time killing fish sticks, arrows etc which have so little health. Yeah DP is great but that will overkill it. Meh.
I’m gonna sleep and stop complaining about dots
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Mastery does work with both playstyles. Spike is not removing dots anymore so when you pop DA the damage of your non-periodic spells will be increased by mastery assuming you have the target dotted which I think is generally going to be the case. In ST you’ll have pretty high DP uptime as well from what I’ve heard so it’ll be full mastery value from all three dots. You will basically just spam MS>MS>MB>MS>MS>MB during DA with the odd DP and that’s it unless you need to refresh dots which I believe you should be able to pandemic before pushing DA and last the whole duration. Of course as target counts grow you will lose the DP uptime and with very high target counts also VT/Pain uptime (depending on talent choices, etc). This seems to be how they are trying to differentiate VF and DA as in these scenarios VF will likely pull ahead due to giving full mastery bonus on all targets.
If you run spikeless DA then DA won’t buff your mind flay but flay will still have it’s damage increased by mastery. Although as DA doesn’t increase MF damage that seems like a poor filler choice at least during DA and possibly outside of it (tuning dependent). Of course everything is dependent on tuning still.
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I know our dev said our cooldowns won’t be finished for launch, but current Vform still has me worried. I can see it have niche application in pve, in pvp however, it’s mastery effect is null, since you always have dots on your target, and with Vform now only increasing dmg by 10%, which is effectively 0% since it replaces Sform, all the cooldown is, at least in pvp, is 2min cd access to void bolt.
Tried some games on the beta and holy **** it was miserable, people have over 200k and our heals are:
Flash of light around 25k
Radiance around 20k
Pom is like 4k? Probably less
Renew about 2k.
Flash of light spam legit can’t outheal a dps rotation(no cds/kicks/stuns)and while numbers are the easiest thing to tune, disci doesn’t have the tools to survive with only 1 school since :
- no kick silence counterplay
- can’t kite
- no immunities
I have zero faith in blizzard to fix this
Since VF can be extended, maybe ancient madness could instead give void bolt a chance to increase your crit, because that means the benefit remains active throughout the form. Some are asking for stacking haste as well, no opinion from me. Just trigger it off activities in VF so it scales to the duration. Although, I’m aware that with crits = more insanity it could be broken.
What if DA included Damnation? On x targets? Would certainly justify the cast time and make it competitive.
They did promise to do some tuning, but yeahhh
As shadow I can’t heal myself up without going oom either, which is true on live as well. Really wanted that fat shadowmend 
Perspective of a PVE AOTC Holy priest:
I like that the blue mentioned they were thinking about Cascade. Personally I would happily trade in Halo for Cascade - it feels like the most natural spell to swap out.
Am sad to see Holy Nova is STILL in the tree. Even as it is now, it still isn’t worth it and I truly resent putting points there in order to move down.
Holy Word:Life and Void Shift still feel like they are filling a very similar niche - don’t think we need both.
None of the talents give me the feeling of “oh that will be really cool to have” I feel like I am picking things because I have to pick something.
I wasn’t too worried, was convinced they would fix it, until I saw the post that they are now moving away from focussing on talents. Now I am just sad that this is likely the final iteration.
Disappointing.
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pvp wise: they would have to increase the numbers like crazy if they want to make disc viable. Its now a spec that literally will be only good if the numbers are overtuned. If numbers are average or even low, the spec is dead. It doesnt bring anything good to the table. Its really disappointing
Pi still in the game, No Aoe build, Mind sear is dead. Our DPS cds are 1.1 sec cast time.
back to casting dots still on 20+´adds which are dead before i get 3 dots out.
Thanks for trying blizzard. You took 5 steps backwards from already being behind were you started.
You got a personal hatred towards shadow or something?
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Remove Dark Void and uncap Shadow Crash, or at least make it 8 targets.
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Make Dark Origins(pvp talent), baseline(make DA and Vform instant).
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Split Void Eruption from Vform and make it our aoe spender(or free with a low cd) with a cascade effect.
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Add some form of actual power into Vform(capped ramping haste, or druid’s Ravenous Frenzy’ish effect?), so we have a reason to want to stay in it.
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Make Flash Heal stronger for Shadow(and disc) to make up for the loss of Shadowmend. On the ptr at least, a flash heal cast is 9% of my max hp for 20% of my mana pool, I can’t even top myself before going out of mana.
Aside from tuning and placements, these are my general would likes.
Idols have yet to be tuned, so for all we know, something like Nzoth(that currently scale with attack power) just might be crazy strong in aoe for us. But speaking of Idols, with Mind Sear currently being a spender, Cthun’s functionality is in an odd spot, so for that I’d suggest just making the tentabro Flay spawns work like our living shadow(tier bonus) from live, and do smart aoe always, pretty please? 
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Would spatial rift be a good movement option? It can do some of what door of shadows does, but also other things.
I do like that you can sort of weave it, but I’m clumsy with it.
remove shadow crash add back cascade for shadow 
make it affect targets with Vampiric Thouch.
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can they add dispersion silence in to the left side of shadows talent three.
instead of the main treant
Wanted to talk a bit about Mind Flay: Insanity and DP proccing it. Could PvE people explain if you’re supposed to stack DP on top of each other, or spread out their uses since you kind of get the same damage anyway(Since in pvp, you want to mash them together for stacked damage over a short time)? With Flay: Insanity being a proc consumed on use, it makes it slightly awkward if you indeed are supposed to mash DP together, since it’d lose us procs.
Speaking of things not yet working(?). An early bluepost stated that Mind Flay would override Smite, for shadowpriests, but Words of the Pious and Surge of Light still says Smite for us. As I understood the sentence “override Smite” would mean that for Shadow these aforementioned talents should affect Flay for us, rather than Smite, or did I get something wrong?
Speaking of Flay interactions, Screams of the Void(on ptr at least, I don’t have beta) doesn’t yet work, there’s no change to my dots to see at all, either in speed or damage. Flay also don’t currently work with Psychic Link. On a similarl Flay note, I’m no game designer so I can’t say if behind the scenes this is too strong, but Idol of C’thun effectively adding a tentacle channeling Flay on our targets, I thought it would be a kind of cool interaction, if its flay would be counted either as our Flay in terms of interactions(Orbs, Psychic Link, Dark Evang, and Screams of the Void), or add to it. And for reliable proccing, (if current proc chance is intended), Flay: Insanity had a higher chance, and/or perhaps Flay: Insanity procced insanity infused tentacles for shorter duration, but higher power? 
I like the flay build a lot, and hope it will work as a viable build. Been waiting for our dot side to get some love, which we seem to be digging into in DF well.
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The DF talent tree has come a long way for sure, still likely some smaller issues. But overall improved massively. Obviously we wont know numbers yet, but design wise its looking strong.
Sad to see void form absolutely butchered to achieve it, but i guess blizzard has sucked at balancing it.
I forsee some issues with the multi dotting in low keys later in the expansion when it becomes norm to pull 10 odd mobs at a time in a key beneath 10-12, but again it will depend how good our burst options are there.
Mindblast aoe ability looks strong, i agree with the idea of void eruption maybe being made the AoE insanity spender instead of mind sear, but other then that theres potiental.
Looking forward to trying it out, hopefully the specc doesnt fall into old roots, and it get overnerfed soon after being seen would be nice to see shadow being a good performer for a expansion rather then inital release and downhill from there.
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Hopefully we’ll get to actually be in a good spot throughout the expansion, and not fall off in damage midway through as usual.
Feels like it might be because our base damage is usually good, making us feel strong early on, but our scaling is terrible, so we fall off hard.
We’ll have to wait for tuning this time to see!
Yo, honestly i rly enjoy bard style playstyle with fae, Pi, hymn.
I am sad that its goin away.
Another thing that should be adressed is defensive issue. We are wheelchair class with no interrupt or real selfdefs.
Not talking about our dmg output (kinda dated) and not efficent which was fine , whenever we played fae or boon.
But now rip.
Lets hope for best.
Happy to hear flay builds can be fun! A lot of people have been giving channel spells the nope
I don’t know either ;p
In most cases you don’t have them back to back because ressources, but in VF you overcap on insanity easily and it’s the only use. But then it doesn’t matter to spread it out.
Insanity not balanced? Naaah
Wish I could be half-insane outside combat like a moonkin 
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I would love if they did literally anything with our insanity, since for all it could be, it’s nothing but a resource for us atm, even though it’s supposed to represent our battle to stay in control against the unstable forces from which we borrow our gifts. Take your boomkin reference for example, if we started half way, and got some sort of effect or attribute, perhaps slightly altered spell effect, based on whether we were in the “sane” part, or the “insane” part. Just spitballing ideas: Say, your blaster side(crit?) wanted to stay in the sane side, and dot side(haste?) wanted to stay in the insane side.
Doesn’t even have to be much different to what we currently have in the DF build; Sane does X, Insane does Y(perhaps Mind Blast is a burst ability while sane, and turns into a dot while insane?), have Spike push you towards sanity, and Flay towards Insanity, and for cooldown identity, have one let you stay constantly in the Sane side, and the other cd, constantly in the insane side. There, now there’s identity to our fillers and cooldowns, and our insanity actually has a purpose beyond just being a resource. Likely a little late for changes like this, but just a little surprised they haven’t expanded on our insanity resource at all.
Dreams be dreams. 
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