I mean, how much time do you wanna spend in dungeons though ? Isn’t half an hour more than enough ? Spending 1 hour + and playing the dungeon 1 mob at a time doesnt sound fun at all. Highly doubt many players would like that.
Does anybody know what the ilvl requirement will be to get into the new Heroic version? Has it been posted anywhere? My chars should be fine, but I don’t want to have to be spamming normal dungeons again in order to meet the requirement.
Several weeks after the release of 10.2.6, which is released 20th March.
yeah - no 
but we will have very entertaining first few weeks when all the heroes who just now slowly get to +20 will be very very surprised they cannot finish +2
it will be easy - did you push to +20 on first week of last season ? ofc you will be fine.
but very very many people will have very very rough first weeks with very many unfinished +2 key
proabably around 460 if they drop 476 gear.
so unless if you didnt play this season - yeah enjoy wasting time in normal dungeons again
Yeah… no.
If they keep the level of tuning they showed in the graph, a +2 is equivalent to a +12 today. Not a +20.
Except… every… single… expa… the last season is the one with the most pushers. Because of ilvl bloat.
Think about it… we will get 40 ilvls more. If my calculations are correct, me RShaman will sit with 1.4 to 1.5 M health (for comparison that is DOUBLE the HP a TANK had in S1). And 40 to 50% versatility (a permanent wall). For comparison I had 11% in S1. And I stack vers as a throughput stat.
That is with out considering dps or hps.
So yeah… its gonna be an easy season. Unless… they do what they did in S1 (the 40% more damage and 40% more HP thing)… which would make the 1-shot fiesta we got in S3 look like a walk in the park. With random white hits 1-shotting tanks.
But they wont. Because they know the backlash something like that will get.
So get ready to witness the same thing every expansion. And YES. “regular people” that do 20s now, will be doing 25s/26s next season (OR, 15s and 16s in their new scale).
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We’ll have to see of course, but i do not think it will work like that. Obviously we get a couple extra secondaries, but that won’t give us 5 extra keylevels.
This season also we got this high in keylevels because of the lenient timers. Would be interesting to see blizz will adjust the timers for season 4.
I like bets. I bet you an item of your choosing from the in-game store. Or 100kg if you don’t wanna use real money.
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I mean there is always timewalk. Timewalk so far counted as doing heros with a way lower Itemlevelrequirement.
Will be interesting to see if they adjust either TW Difficulty or Rewards due to the changes for “regular” dungeons.
People are really overthinking the whole new difficulty scale.
And seem to forget everything is getting a boost.
Catch up gear will be around 450-460ish ilvl i believe to make sure you can run normal and hc dungeons.
Then gear afterwards scales up aswell.
There will be no such thing as: i did +15s last season and now i cant even do +2s because i lack the gear or skill to conquer the new “difficulty” because the new difficulty is merely a scaling trick they did every m+ season.
If they didnt, we wouldnt have the “m+ cap” of m+31/32s.
If we would had season 1 m+ scaling, we would be seeing m+45s to m+50 runs.
And “mere mortals/filthy casuals” would run 23s/24s with easy because the scaling is off.
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Either Heroic or M0 should have been retired by now. As well as removing the daily lockout.
Exactly.
And while this is happening, there are no changes to the M+ scene after the new M0.
Same affixes. Same rewards (or lack of). Nothing new and fresh.
We are just wasting our time discussing this. None of us in this forum do keys less than 10 right now. So none of us would care what people do bellow those levels.
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The change to the item level rewards and scaling from content seems to be Blizzards fix.
So normal / heroic and m0 ilvls are better in line and then the steps after that in m+ are a bit bigger aswell.
Heroic / m0 and catch up gear ever since m+ was added to the game had a big overlap with m+ keys and rewards (end of dungeon loot, the vault rewards were fine) making it possible to jump into +6/7s only a few hours after reaching max level.
Except at the start of the xpac where you run heroics / m0s to gear up as best you can.
After that initially period you never step foot in them again.
So in that vein, i do believe this change will alter that and looking forward in how it works for real.
A bigger gripe i have with that, if you have to learn mechanics in m0 dungeons, what happens to the m0 dungeon pool in other seasons?
If the m0 pool is only expansion related dungeons, its no use for m+ “training”.
So that would even create more “re-used” content.
Meaning last season 3 m+ was also the m0 dungeon pool for loot.
Aslong as m+ brings a higher level reward, which they will with the new fix, removing daily and weekly lockouts on heroic / m0 dungeons wont be needed.
Why run a m0 when a +2 with just tyrannical or fortified gives you a shot at a higher ilvl reward?
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That isn’t going to change next season of course.
We are not overthinking it. We got this season als 39 ilvls and we didnt got 5 keylevels extra in comparison to previous. Maybe 1 because secondaries.
Yes you are overthinking it. So far, each new m+ season has started with a so called roll-over in the week prior to the new season.
Changing the difficulty for the new season and your weekly rewarded key from the vault is dropped by an x amount of levels.
Season 3 “rollover” does 2 things:
Your weekly rewarded key drops an x amount of levels, to give some sort of progression again.
And overall key difficulty also gets a bump. Think a 15 at the start of season 3 was similar to a 20 in season 2.
And thats exactly why the 39 ilvl increase is there.
If we arent growing in power, there is no need to scale up dungeons.
So season 4 is no different.
If they wouldnt increase difficulty, you can run through +20s while standing in all the fire.
Power lvl increase = buffing dungeons or raids.
You cant do one without the other.
Our key goes down, yes. So what happens with the people below +10? Our key got downgraded with like 14 last season. And a 15 isn’t a 20 previous season. We probably won in total only 1 key level.
This season blizzard is going to do something else than every other new season.
The thing is that they have not announced any changes to keys above a 10 from today.
But what Damae sais is correct. Next season there is a jump in difficulty between “heroic” and “M0”.
So. IF you can do a M0, there is ZERO reason you cant do a M1 or M2. Its like saying: Today you can do a 10. There is ZERO reason you cant do an 11 as well. Its not like things will go from “no damage” to “one shot” in 1 key level.
And people have ALL the incentive to do so. M0 == weekly lockout. M+1 == infinite.
So even in S4 people will just do heroic dungeons and go straight to M+. Like they already do today. So all that “no timer” BS is useless. All that factually changes is that they wont get any affixes like they do today. Thats literally it.
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The only real difference is the fact heroic and m0 dungeons are relevant again for gearing up alts.
If your main did 15s or similar you can hop into m+ on the release day of the season.
476 ilvl will be enough till a certain key. (Exact scaling / affixes will determine this)
Rewards are instantly upgrades.
Compared to previous seasons where rewards from vault or end of dungeons werent great upgrades (minor at best)
The progression is more pronounced. Which is perfectly fine.
Yes, that was my point too. If you CAN do M0 then you are still not going to do it. You go +2. If you can’t well, then no M+ this season.