Dragonflight Talents don’t Look Good

Community General Discussion
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It is clearly another 1 expansion temporary system designed for Dragonflight’s level 70 chars (talent points). It is again an unnecessarily complicated system and decrease in QoL, compared to current talents.

Currently: large spellbook + small talent tree = more baseline + less variables

DF: small spellbook + big talent trees = less baseline + more variables

DF’s “more choice” is at the cost of sacrificing baseline abilities. Baseline abilities are just put into talent trees from spellbook.

If current specs with less variables can’t be balanced by devs, the class/spec balance will only be worse in DF with new talent trees.

We know that, with the removal of borrowed power, they need to make another complicated system somewhere else. But, repeating a reused old system is not the correct method.

In future expansion, when we get more levels and talent points, it will inevitably become bloated and meaningless again, when this kind of tree is expanded unlimitedly, the same reason why it failed before and was removed.

They periodically bring back old reused system and pack it as a new feature for expansions. And this new talent trees will likely be removed after DF and replaced by another talent system again.

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I think they look amazing.

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I wouldn’t say that this is bad
Game is terrible since they started going for a EXPANSION specific progresion
very bad choice
since the vanilla till the end of LEGION there was constant expansion to expansion progresion it was like LIFE it was good
The game shouldn’t be scaled down or UP or left or right
bloat in my opinion is not bad at all

When we are talkin complicated talent trees?
this trees are everything but not complicated :smiley:

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When Blizzard continues expending these trees, they eventually will run out of meaningful or interesting abilities.

Either they remove spellbook, put every baseline abilities into “talents”, or we will end up with those meaningless and boring “+1%/2%/3%” talents, again.

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Is it? How did you get to that conclusion?

Fundamentally disagree with you here.
It’s a vast improvement compared to current talents.

And? If you want them, pick them.
If you don’t want them, don’t pick them.
Choice is good!

It’s not complicated. You want something, you put points into it.
Voila.

That will take a while though. So this definitely isn’t a DF only feature.
This can last for a good 3-4 expansions at least. And hey… Maybe they’ll expand it more horizontally than vertically in future expansions. We just have no way of knowing yet.

There is no realistic reason to assume this. You’re jumping to conclusions.

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It is absolutely a worse system, and a reused system that has been tried and failed before.

I am willing to take a bet that, it will get much negative reaction from players and won’t last more than 1 expansion.

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I think they are actually great too.

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In your opinion.
I disagree, like I said earlier.

Is it a bit more involved than ‘pick 1 of these 3’? Sure.
But I think that’s a GOOD thing.

We’ll see. I’m more positively inclined.
They’re never going to be able to please everyone, I don’t have that disillusion, but I think overal this is going to be received well. But again; we’ll see. Neither of us knows for sure.

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So more customization is bad now?
For me its looks interesting and could be good.

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Are you high?

Less variables? Legendaries, set items, covenant abilities, conduits, conduit level.

What are you talking about, “less variables”.

And without those systems, our classes are incomplete, precisely due to the lack of talent trees. Our classes without borrowed power are basically League of Legends heros, not RPG classes.

They can introduce subclasses (which is not a revolutionary idea, many MMOs have subclasses), sub-spec trees which would be cool (like Blood Knight paladins, or Light’s chosen). Ion has said they are planning the system to last for the foreseeable future, but their “foreseeable future” isn’t 8 expansions ahead, and there’s no reason to make the game stink right now because a system might break 10 years from now.

With 11.0 you’ll get 5 main class talent points and 5 spec talent points. This means you can get 1-2 new talents in each. It only becomes a problem once you no longer have places to dump talent points.

Also, not to mention that the system becoming bloated is better than what we currently have, which is no expansions to the talent system, 3 expansions in a row without a new row of talents, because adding 1 new row of talents in the current system is much less sustainable than giving you 10 talent points with the talent trees.

There is no sacrifice. WoW is simply again becoming an RPG with character development and customization.
DF’s “choice” comes in your ability to customize and play around with your build. In MoP, WoD, Legion, BFA, Shadowlands you play the LoL hero Blizzard gives you and you hope they don’t ruin it. For example, I found paladin unplayable in BFA and there was nothing i could do about it. I just quit the game for 6 months. In DF, you’ll have some control over how your character plays.

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I think the real judgement call will be how the talents look for PURE dps classes with no tank or healer specs, since we’ve not seen any of those yet and those should be done right since its all they can do.

I personally don’t see much of a difference yet currently and it feels like they’re back tracking to appeal idk who since once again we’re being given completley dud talents and must have talents put side by side again with 0 adjustments

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It’s not about what they look like, it’s about what they do.

Welcome to 2022.

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I believe their aim is to get rid of a lot of borrowed power. Rather than a gimmick for one expansion.

It is ofc possible that the tree will be revamped every new expansion. It is also wholly possible in the future it will end up too big again. I don’t know if we’ll get another squish then.

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There is few of them and even that can be scraped and replaced by something else if they listen to feedback
but these trees are way way better even tho i hate that i need to pick ability that i already have in my spellbook
they are better simply because
i can do whatever i want now
for example? did you see guardian tree? i can literally pick a path and be a tank with a ARCANE dmg theme
Of course they need to do a lot of work on them cause like it’s not perfect but if this is their only focus going forward game is gonna be more enjoyable

You want more complexity in game not less

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The the thing is that, there is never “more choices”. What 99% players will do the same as always: Read a 3rd party guide, copy the cookie cutter build, and never look at it again.

The only difference is that, DF talent guide will be longer, because the 2 x 10 row talent trees are more complicated that ever. So it will take longer time to read the 3rd party guide and click the talent points.

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I’m the top 1%?

Interesting.

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Yup, that is why players hate borrowed powers and systems :joy:

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People didn’t hate weapons or neck because those things gave them power
but because how you get that power…
for weapon you needed to spam maw of soul to cap it
for neck you should clear a whole map of WQ and spam island expeditions to first open azerize traits at the begning and later to open slots for your essences
but using those things was FUN
it’s always the acquisition that players hate not specific things
people liked corruptions but they didn’t like how it was RANDOM
and no i’m not talking about FORUM trolls
i’m talking about people in game that i played with legion/BFA they never said omg this weapon is trash i don’t like being OP
they said i don’t want to grind AP and lvl my weapon

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Regardless of acquisition, complex systems always bring balance issue.

What is the point of corruption, when 100% tanks use “twilight devastation”? It gave 0 choice, but just another layer of system with clearly OP abilities that Blizzard was never bothered to balance.

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This type of tree shaped talent system is based on character levels and points.

When players get higher levels and more points, this trees will be expanded and inevitably bloated.

We will end up again with talents of +1%/2%/3% damage, -1s/2s/3s cd, etc. This system cannot be expanded unlimited without being meaningless eventually.

And putting baseline abilities into “talent points” will make class/spec imbalance even worse. There is no choice but cookie cutter build.

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