Dragonflight Talents don’t Look Good

Community General Discussion
124

Because I dislike people claiming facts when it isn’t.

PvE is the main focus of wow, NOW. But it didn’t use to be to this exstend. Ever. I made several claims to why it’s false, I stated several times why it’s false, I provided reasoning and evidence to dispute that claim and you refuse to back down. Continuing to state it as a “fact”.

It’s like me saying milk comes from Elks. Fact!

And about this. There are SOO many youtubers making “claims” to the new talents, such as Venruki about mages, Cdew about Shamans and several others. Many made it about the rogues. Several hunters has viewed the hunter tree.

Ofcourse you can make claims without trying them. Most are basic knowledge paired with years of experience. It’s not like they introduced spells we don’t already know.

What I did and why I didn’t like the hunter tree, were. Look at rogue, how strong do I believe I can make them? How many defensives, offensives and utilities can I claim.

Then try with priest, DK etc. You get the point. Then do the same on hunter and compare. Most of what a hunter gets is stuff as irrelevant as that beast eye thingy, where you can move your pet around.

How does that make a hunter stronger?? I’m all for fun spells, don’t get me wrong on that. But does something that doesn’t make you stronger or flexible, belong among talents?

How does mend pet make your hunter contribute into any group enviroment at all?

125

Indeed. And it ALWAYS WAS.

That doesn’t mean PvP didn’t get ANY attention. That’s never what I said or claimed.
I said it is and always has been the main focus of the developers. Which is true. It’s a fact.

Well, it IS technically true.
It’s just not the entire truth.
And if you go into specifics, it might not be true: For example… ‘the milk in your coffee comes from elks’. That’d be false.

Yes. But then, to me, those claims aren’t worth a lot.

And that’s fine that you feel that way.
I feel differently. Because I don’t care AT ALL how strong (or not) rogues are. I don’t compare classes when it comes to their strength, because that’s not where my interest lies.

I disagree. There is stuff I like less than other things, sure. That’s taste. But there’s nearly nothing in there that’s irrelevant. Situational; sure. Irrelevant; no.
For PvP that might not be the case; I’m not going to make a claim against that because I don’t PvP and I don’t care about it.

By keeping it alive and doing DPS maybe? :man_shrugging:t4:

Hell, I’ve had situations in the past where my pet could offtank a mob for a short while, because the tank was getting pounded too hard and the healer needed a bit of breathing room. Or situations where the healer got aggro and I used my pet to get the mob(s) off the healer. Without mend pet (or an improved version of it), I might not have been able to pull that off.

126

I am slowly dying inside…

So, wow was released with very little to any pvp at all.

Then blizz noticed that people liked doing pvp. So they launched a whole new element to the game, battlegrounds. People got titles, gear etc from pvp.

In TBC, this took even more notice with arena being released, resilience being introduced and specific class set bonuses for pvp.

This remained true for many years. Not to mention that PvP were the first to ever get a competition stage at blizzcon. That combined with the fact that many proclaimed that balancing issues in pve were caused by pvp.

On top of that, a lot of the utilities classes have, comes from pvp usage, not pve usage. Barely anyone uses traps, poly etc in pve anymore.

Come on man. This is to arguement for the sake of arguementing.
Like, this is what makes me frustrated and pull out my hair. Stuff like this.

Like, I make a clear reasonable statement as to why I think improved mend pet doesn’t belong as a talent and you make these “facepalming” arguements as to why it does.

Like… For real?? There are SO many different things throughout wow history that they could use in the hunter talent tree instead that would make it SO mutch more interesting.

A simple statement is the fact that we only got on of the covenant abilities and the least used of them. I’d say the NF ability would be more interesting and/or the Venthyr one.

127

WoW was almost a game without pvp. Blizzard was afraid of griefing, trolling, harassment etc. They believed pvp was incompatible with MMOs. Dark Age of Camelot changed their minds and it was what convinced them to put pvp in WoW in the last minute.

PvP has always been a secondary mode to the main game. This is why it gets almost no content - there’s no pvp quests, there’s no open world pvp events to speak of, there’s no territory control, castle sieges, guild wars. There’s just… arena and battlegrounds. And pvpers are lucky if they get a new battleground every other expansion. Wasn’t the last battleground we got in Legion? And arenas are basically squares that use assets from the open world.

Sorry mate - this mode has always been a secondary thought. It doesn’t have to be that way, and I would love to see the open world pvp developed more with pvp events, sieges, guild warfare, etc. But it won’t happen.

1 Like
128

I answered to this above. PvP evolved a lot over the years. I personally feel the biggest hindrence has been pve players complaining about an aspect of the game they don’t really care for.

129

Yes.

SOME people. Sure.

Yep.
But all the while lots of PvE was being produced.
There wasn’t a big PvP patch. It was part of it, sure. But not THE PRIMARY FOCUS.

Yes.
But, same arguments as above apply here.

No. No it really didn’t. They added those systems in the early parts of WoW’s lifespan and then they basically just sat there. Getting little to no updates from expansion to expansion.

Yeah, THAT part is true. And that was an issue.
Blizzard were balancing the main part of the game around a side-activity.
That was bad. So they stopped doing that.

What? Being told logical stuff that makes sense?
Or finding out that your arguments are silly?

No. You made a claim.
And I refuted that claim.
And you, I guess, can’t handle that.
This is not a ‘me’ issue. Sorry. This is a ‘you’ issue.

Oh sure, I’m not denying that.
There’s skills I’ve hoped they’d make for years… And most never came true.
One that did though, was the 2nd pet. And I love it.

I agree with you there. I dislike the chakrams.
I think flaying shot makes for much more interesting gameplay.

I’m not saying the trees are perfect. Not at all.
But they’re far from the disaster you claim them to be, afaiac.

Now please… Don’t get frustrated when I disagree. It’s not personal.
We just have different interests when it comes to WoW. That’s all good.

130

It has, but also hasn’t - pvp is still mainly arena and sometimes battlegrounds. The “evolution” if you can call it that comes mainly in the reward structures and class design, the latter of which is mainly the concern of pve. The thing is that if classes are decently balanced in pve, then with some minimal tuning through pvp talents, they can be balanced in pvp as well.

pvp hasn’t really evolved at all since TBC.

131

Dude… You didn’t refute anything by saying “I can keep my pet alive”. Like come on? I’ve done so mutch content on my hunter over 18 years, NEVER have I ever been in the situation where I felt like “Oh heck, to save this I need my pet to tank”.

If anything the biggest issue in wow history has been taunt on pets in group content. That is why it can’t taunt raid bosses, it’s why taunt it automaticly turned off in instances.

And you saying stuff like that, just makes you look like an instigator.

132

I strongly disagree. MoP had the highest diversion in pvp of all expansions.

If you look at CS go, just to go against you and Teh. PvP isn’t about “oh new maps” or “oh new content” or “Oh new bling bling”.

CS go has the same maps. How about… Overwatch. Same maps…

I can continue this. Because that is basic pvp. You don’t need to create “maps” to make pvp fun. It just needs balance and interesting stuff.

133

Then I think you’re not as good a player as I am (at least when it comes to PvE).
Sorry, I don’t mean any offense.

Sure. That’s a thing indeed. But that’s not an issue I’ve struggled much with in my WoW time. If I need to offtank in a pinch, it’s a quick manual click away.

No.
Like I said: This is a ‘you’ issue.

134

You know what. I can see you replying so. I’m sorry, I regret ever replying again. I don’t know what your problem is, but you’re very aggressive and very provocative. But I guess you’re just spewing facts. So. Enjoy, I swear, my life in way to short for this nonsense.

135

When has ANYONE ever said “no offence” without knowing, it was an offence??

Like… What the actual. So the end all this. And refute that blantantly offensive claim.

No. I just have better tanks as friends I guess.

Never have I been in a situation the healer and tank couldn’t handle. Bye!!

136

Ehm… I think you have this backwards.
Please… I’ll be gone in a few days. Won’t be here again until DF pre-patch releases (or close to it). Just let this all sink in. You seem to have issues. Please… Deal with them.

‘okay’

Namaste.

137

Wait… you mean the expansion that changed literally all classes also had an effect on pvp? How is this an argument? I said classes affect pvp, but their main concern is pve. The point is to make classes fun in pve, and then just… have them in pvp. If they are fun in pve, chances are they’re fun in pvp. That’s literally what I mean when I say pvp is a secondary thought.

Maps designed around player creativity. Maps designed around the ability for you to move in an unpredictable way, where you can surprise your enemy. Also, in Overwatch, different maps play differently based on team composition, which results in matches feeling fresh.

Good map design is what keeps these games alive. The map design allows for most matches to play out differently and keep the game fresh.

R6: Siege has the same maps, but if you play “the meta”, if you play predictably, chances are you’ll die. People can line up shots and kill you through the wall if they expect you to be at a certain place. So the game encourages unpredictable, surprising behavior from players.

In WoW, pvp matches generally play out the same, with few being stand outs. Shadowlands seems especially bad - this is why I stopped pvping after I farmed my saddle. Every single druid was basically one convoke cast. You just bait it, interrupt it and then blow the whole team up.

You absolutely need maps that make pvp fun. Or you need more avenues for players to be unpredictable. This is why bringing talent trees back may be the big revitalization that pvp needs.

However, in the context of WoW, pvp needs actual content - it needs wars, castle sieges, guild vs guild pvp and all that. Arena is literally the worst pvp mode I have ever seen in an MMO. Maybe if addons were disabled in rated arena it would be fine, but now it’s basically Cooldown Tracking: The Game. Battlegrounds are fun, but rated BGs are pretty dead because it’s hard to make teams for them and normal battlegrounds feel like a waste of time due to a lack of rewards.

138

Sorry dude. That was the straw. I will report this. Simply because you’re incapeable of seeing how provocative you are. Like, this is calling people ugly just because you don’t like them.

You make claims, assumptions, projections, based on a simple disagreement.

139

I don’t agree, if that is okay? I mean, you two really don’t need to be sarcastic in your reply.

That being said. The reason I don’t agree, is that most of what I enjoyed about pvp over the years is the ability to outplay.

Yes, SL is one pile of cooldown junk. Venruki made a youtube about this specific problem and why it’s bad and what causes it.

But before that, most games were won on outplaying or knowledge based. The more experience and knowledge you had about all classes, the better you stood. Atm, it’s simply pop cd’s, enemy pop defensives, etc. And it becomes one pile of junk.

No, SL is by far the worst pvp season. But that isn’t caused by lack of maps. I don’t think castle sieges or new maps would had saved that.

Like people already hated Ashran, how would castle siege make it better?

140

My comment was more about how pvp doesn’t get special consideration. The cooldown blasting meta of Shadowlands exists because bursting is fun in pve. That’s all. And as Tah said - pve is the main consideration.

I didn’t mean that pvp not getting maps or content makes it dead. My point was that pvp is not a consideration, and if it was, it would be getting new maps, new battlegrounds, new modes of play.

But even the fact that Shadowlands pvp is all about popping cds is because pvp is low on Blizzard’s priority list.

141

You’re the one who makes hyperbole (at least I hope they are) statements like:

Proof. Proof of how you make a drama of the simplest, innocent things.
Those are not the actions of someone who’s well adjusted.

Replies by the way you ASKED for. You replied to ME almost 3 weeks after the fact.
And not only that, no, you end your reply with an insult.

And I am the one who’s provocating?

142

I thought this was a topic about DF talents, well looks I was wrong xD

1 Like
143

Haha. Well Annie made it clear at some point that their viewpoint is from PvP.
And that’s fine. But I explained that PvP is not and never has been the main focus of WoW’s developers.

So yeah. Related to the topic.
What did you want to discuss about the DF talent trees? :sweat_smile:

1 Like