Druid weak - need adjustment

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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Calm down guys. Before you start spaming : I am talking about Feral.

I feel they are very weak in everything at the moment compared to rogues or warriors. Especially in PVP.

I think “Savage Roar” really sucks up the routine. If Blizzard would make this a passive spell rune, the playstyle would feel much better definitely.

Its not gonna boost the DMG like crazy because we always have it 100% uptime anyway.
All you get is 2-3 more Mangles on a Bossfight which is still nowhere near the dmg of rogue/pally/warr.

But I am fine with that. All I wish is a better quality of life with Savage Roar being a passive spell and you can really focus on your DPS routine.

4 Likes
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I think PvE wise Feral is not hard to adjust, and will end up being more than fine. Im saying this as someone who ofc plays Feral cat in PvE.

PvP wise the issue is MUCH bigger. Vanilla Cat has some very critical limitations, and legit not a single one has been adjusted. As such Feral is unplayable in pvp.

Iv listed a lot of needed changes before, but since Blizzard generally needs the cut and dry solutions.

  • 30% passive dmg reduction in Cat (Only for pvp).
  • Shred no longer has a positional req. and applies slow when used.

Simple, fast and effective. Still Cat would have big problems, but at least now it could somewhat work. Its still missing some pvp healing and a cc. But seeing as I am 99.9% sure Blizzard wont change anything, listing ideas is pointless.

P.s. They buffed Rip from 12 to 16sec ? Which ofc is a joke, will net less than 1% difference in dps for cats in PvE.

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For PvP I think feral is just lacking talents(like omen), and pvp gear at 60 for the sweet movement speed set bonus.

1 Like
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Its not a movement speed problem, or a damage problem. Omen is a very minor dmg increase.

Cat has dmg, just due to the lack of proper pvp tools cant really reach its maximum. Imagine a dagger rogue with no mutilate, no slows and no stuns, who cares that you hit hard from behind when you cant really reach anyone from behind.

Again, takes too much dmg because of no defensive and very low armor, and if you Bear you literally accepted that you will die, and only pray that someone heals you before that happens.

Omen and 10% additional movement speed wont change anything, 40% movement does not offset 70%+ slows.

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no mutilate

irrelevant, rogue doesn’t need mutilate to be effective. In its current form its just busted

no slows

You have the fastest movement speed in the game, passively, which is why ferals didnt have a slow until wotlk. It is unnecessary for them in SOD as that would make them too oppressive once you get access to the PvP set bonus

no stuns

Pounce, Bear form into bash.

takes too much dmg because of no defensive and very low armor

The whole class fantasy and idea of a druid, as it was designed in vanilla, wasn’t to just sit in one form all the time, but to constantly have to shift. Vanilla ferals didn’t sit in cat or bear all the time, they would even hardcast balance spells during a root.

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Stop comparing vanilla to sod, its irrelevant at best. There were so many outdated spells, specs, playstyles even for 2004 version that when classic launched in 2019 a whole new meta shaped, let alone SoD. If you try to play several classes the way you played in vanilla/classic you would be mince meat. We are playing a game closer to retail than classic. The playstyle you and some other folks here in the forums are advocating is nothing but a fantasy in SoD. Ofc that doesnt mean you should completely ignore them and focus solely on new runes but unless your class have a relatively strong ‘SoD additions’ base toolkit wont do much for sure.

2 Likes
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Its really not irrelevant, as classes function more like they did originally, than retail. Casters dont have increased mobility, like they did during wotlk for example, to justify putting slows on a feral. Maybe in later phases if warlocks get demonic circle, priest get body and soul, mage gets displacement etc.

he way you played in vanilla/classic you would be mince meat.

Funny how im not then. Skill issue?

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Yes casters dont have much mobility but there is tons of ‘one shot mechanics’(heavy bursts) instant casts to counter that lack of mobility and several game changing defensives. Mobility and gap closers have been given mainly to melees. All those things are massively different than classic version and requires something totally different.

To give an example since thread was mainly about druids, using bear bash or successfuly casting 1 or 2 wraths if u somehow manage to get a root going on as a feral wont win you a fight. If anthing since current meta is more shifted towards high burst damage you will make your oppenents job easier by not using valuable time trying to burst him down asap with surprise element. The only reason somehow good players managed to ‘kinda’ make druid work in classic was because of the relatively slow gameplay which enable them to play the ‘long game’.

Also it’s idiotic to lead the conversation to the ‘skill issue’ dead end like you always do. It cannot be proven nor discussed. If you dont have any concrete or constructive thing to say no need to keep commenting on literally every post.

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You will still not reach anyone who slowed you with that run speed. You can shapeshift out of the slow, but you’ll use 1/3 of your mana doing so.

That’s 1/3 of your mana. Then if you get slowed you’ll use 1/3 more to get out of it. Now you only hav 1/3 of your mana left, you can’t heal with that amount, you can’t cast spells with that amount.

It takes 1/3 of your mana for a shapeshift. Even when talented the shapeshifting is too expensive. I don’t think the vanilla druid was supposed to shapeshift all the time. It was supposed to shapeshift into the role you take in the group/world and stay in it.

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after the nerfs, it’s not only Feral that is weak, balance is in the dumps too, because the compasation for the starsurge nerf didn’t work properly. don’t believe me? look at the logs and see where Balance druid is located. and just to stay slightly on topic. get use to being inferior to warriors and rogues, it will stay that way up to level 60 and beyond unless they nerf those classes and they won’t do it.

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Nvm, forgot who I was arguing with. The guy that has literally no experience playing Druid.

Yes, that’s exactly how everything works. 30% movement speed counters 70%+ slows, cuz math is not a thing clearly.

Goes on to speak of class fantasy and vanilla. This is not vanilla, and if you expect to have classes having vanilla limitations face classes who have no such limitations, then you are going to get what is happening now, Feral cats not being able to pvp.

The fact that you think any talent would make a difference to Feral pvp, such as lolmen is just 10/10. Please, stay out of Druid discussions, and for once I dont even mean it in a mean way, you really have a deep lack of class understanding for me to be able to even argue with you.

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Feral (Cat) need just 3 things :

  • spell to reduce damage.
  • a jump to target ennemies (not the ridiculous spell with short range)
  • less mana cost to morph (actually to expansive)
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4 - an AoE ability

1 Like
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So you want brainless passive damage reduction and brainless positioning. Nah, make feral cooldowns better, buff the bleeds a bit, and leave positioning alone. Ferals are ok in pvp against melee, the issue is casters being OP which is being slowly fixed. More nerfs to casters and ferals will be in a good spot.

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My biggest problem with pvp has been savage roar and our other finishers being too weak and not at all impactful. Rip being a bleed is way too slow when people are dying as fast as they are right now. A 5 point Ferocious bite doesn’t do much more dmg than a single mangle. It just seems we have to keep up roar to have output anywhere near what other classes are doing which would be the equivalent of rogues being forced to dump all their combopoints into slice and dice for pvp.

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Yes 2004 druid as a whole was by far the worst class whether its pvp or pve and balance is no different than feral atm after the nerf. That’s what happens when devs funnel everything a class got into a single spell. Giving an outdated and underperforming class a single overpowered spell will result in only it being nerfed to the ground in no time and make that said class useless again. Both feral and balance is in a sorry state atm and numbers dont lie. After the last enhance shaman buff pretty sure balance and feral is 9th and 10th respectively in dps rankings. Pvp, especially if you are playing solo is no different also. Our whole gameplay was already clunky as hell back in the day and a single misstep or rng factor resulted in death and depened solely on landing multiple roots. So much work for so little reward basicaly… That kinda playstyle is not viable in current state of the game.

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Actually no. As a Feral your main issues are against melee.

Rogues you cant hit due to evasion and stuns.
Melee Hunters outnuke you, easily.
Enha does the same thing as Melee Hunters, waaaay too much dmg.
Ret hits much harder than you hit them, has better survivability and healing.
The only melee you can beat ? Warriors. And even that depends how much they parry your attacks and crit back.

Saying X class has no defensives is not “brainless”, Rogues have high dodge and evasion, Warriors and Palas have plate armor and parry, Hunters has high dodge. I on my nearly full bis p2 cat have around 18% dodge and am the only melee with out parry.

So again, Feral needs help. Mangle dmg is meh, especially after they nerf it and buffed shred. But you cant shred because you cant get behind other melee to hit them from behind. Ofc im speaking of players with equal skill.

One minor edit: All melee atm have no build up, your main dmg starts as soon as you connect. Feral cat has to apply mangle, then put FB up, and after that you can try to do shreds. But due to no slows, you wont be able to. So you have to keep spamming mangle that hits for about half of what shred does. Hence why you are getting outgunned every time. Casters for me at least are generally not a big issue, outside of Ele ofc.

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This.

Feral is fine vs casters. The main issue is the overtuned melee. Warriors have always been a pain to kill for ferals, forcing them to bear form and kite alot.

Feral dmg is good in PvP, I’d argue its one of the more balanced melee since it has clear advantages, and equal disadvantages.

All you that replied to me just have skill issue

1 Like
19

You dont have a grasp on the state of ferals.
Ive played ferals in 2005 vanilla and to 2.4k+ in so many expansions that it would be tedious to list them all. Rogue as well, for that matter. Trust me, feral is AWFUL right now.

Feral was extremely lacking in vanilla, on that much we can hopefully agree. Literally all SOD has brought ferals is decent damage in cat form.
That is to say, feral now does (almost) comparable damage to other melee. But thats it. You have ZERO defensive cooldowns, the worst passive mitigation/armor of any melee, Pounce is terrible compared to cheap shot, and bash costs you 50% of ur mana and 2 x 1.5s GCDs to use offensively - it is beyond clunky, it is telegraphed and very prone to being dodged/parried.

What feral(or any other hybrid melee)has in any later expansion where they are viable, is useful defensive cooldowns, instant heals, attack power to spell power conversion or uniquely good utility. Feral at the moment has none of that. Nothing, literally.

At 40, you are quite literally playing an EXTREMELY bad version of a rogue, with the possibility of going into a 0 dmg and high armor “stance”. Self heals and roots are practically useless, you have 0 ways of getting any of those off vs any class. And even if you did, shifting into Bear for a bash(if it lands), healing for 1000 and going back into cat literally takes about 80% of ur mana. If u shifted AT ALL to remove a single root or slow, u Arent even able to do this.

Feral is abysmal. Also u think feral is good vs casters it hilarious. If any mage or spriest or meta lock loses 1v1 to a feral, then theyre a key turning bot. It is not possible.

2 Likes
20

You say ferals are fine vs casters.
Lets compare rogue and feral vs a fire mage.

Rogue has sap to set up an opener. Feral doesnt.

Openers:
Cheap shot can be used from any direction for 40 energy, 4s stun and 2-3 CPs. Pounce is 50 energy from behind for 3s(talented) stun and 1 CP.
Ravage is garbage compared to 1-2 CP ambush for much higher dmg and 45% higher crit chance.
Rogue also has the option to shadowstep->sap a mounted/running target, as a feral u just watch them run away.

We open Pounce or cheap shot(best case)
Mage blinks.
Rogue can now shadowstep or 3 point ranged kidney shot, vanish and reopen/sap, run in front to gouge the blink or blind it. Mage most likely doesnt hit you or hits you once.

Feral has one option. 1.5 GCD+25% mana pool bear form. Then 1.5 GCD feral charge. Then 1.5 GCD+25% mana cat form. Now you can continue damage, and the mage has used 2-3 globals on you(living bomb, living Flame, fire blast - this basically kills u in about 12 seconds).

At this point the feral has no mana for shifting out to heal more than 1 regrowth+rejuv. But, you cant even do that, because the mage will just CS you.
So you basically stay in cat and spam mangle, because u have 0 ways to shred if the mage isnt terrible. Mage blast waves and his ice armor slows u every second, making him able to kite you. You only have mana for 1 max 2 shapeshifts out of Nova or a slow. And it costs a 1.5 GCD and your ENTIRE energy bar to do so.
Also the mage is free to cast because u have no interrupt.

Meanwhile the rogue has the mage permaslowed so he can never kite. He has 1-2 vanishes, 1-2 sprints, he can blind or gouge, he has better damage spamming mutilates over mangle, he has permaslow, mind numbing, he has kick. He has kidney or ranged kidney ready.

In what world is feral fine vs casters?

And yes, u could enrage into bash after feral charge, giving u an INSANE 4 sec(talented) stun. After the 1 sec bear form GCD u shift into cat which is another 1.5s GCD, leaving us with 1 global of damage before the stun is over. Yay.

1 Like