This is yet another topic about the flawed design feature, Dungeon Deserter.
First, as I understand, the reason dungeon deserter currently works the way it does is to:
Ensure that players leaving the dungeon upon joining are punished.
Ensure that players leaving the dungeon within a time frame are punished. (I think 12 minutes or something?)
Ensure that players being kicked are punished.
The issue is the last part of the feature. Other games with kick functionality do not work this way.
Let us take Counter-Strike as an example. If you are kicked, at first, it won’t have any repercussions other than your ELO. If you are kicked multiple times, you will receive a cooldown (similar to the dungeon deserter mechanic).
After spending time in classic, I can safely say that people are more toxic and much less tolerant of people making mistakes in a random pug finder. The intention with a pug finder is not to clear heroic raids, but to help gear and prepare players for more punishing mechanics in preparation for the next step of endgame content, raiding.
Some personal experiences are that people want to kick randoms to trigger this mechanic simply for the toxicity of it. I have been on the receiving end twice and have seen people try it countless times while levelling through dungeons.
A system, like in CS, where if you kick too often, you receive a punishment too, or if you are kicked too often, you receive a punishment, is, in my opinion, the most optimal way to deal with outlier groups that want to abuse the system.
In short, instead of function 3 working the way it does, it should instead:
If a player kicks too many people in a timeframe or over a number of dungeons, they will receive the Dungeon Deserter debuff.
If a player is kicked too many times in a timeframe or number of dungeons, they will receive the Dungeon Deserter debuff.
There is a very large cooldown if they overuse the votekick. They simply cannot iniate it anymore. Also if several players are kicked from the dungeon finder it will disallow further VTK’s.
The exact specifics are hidden to prevent abuse.
A variation of this suggestion has been passed around and isn’t a bad idea. You should definitely add it through the ingame feedback panel too.
This entire system is built around for people to abuse the system so they can grief/hinder other players from gearing whilst getting away scotfree and not being held accountable to their system abuse.
This vote kicking needs to be removed entirely or the punishment needs to be removed entirely, this is abused daily and the fact that isn’t gonna change anytime soon is just presenting itself. And people who abuse this system need to face a month ban at the bare minimum for abusing this.
Most of the times when I see this come around it is a “I am inconvenienced by it, remove the protection (that also would protect me) with nothing to replace it.” We literally had dungeons in the past that would never, ever start nor finish because players just didn’t want to run it, ever taking hours to fill.
Several Blizzardians have already stated the system will not be removed unless something else takes its place:
If the punishment is removed you would essentially be free to requeue again if you’re a prio role, or facing an eternal queue simulator as DPS as none wants to finish the dungeon if they can also get a chance on a fresh new one anyway.
Is it considered abuse if they chose to leave with no penalty in your suggestion then?
Other suggestion include but are not limited to:
“Just remove it” The darkest times will come back again
“Reduced cooldowns stacking upwards” so that if you aren’t kicked often, it starts with a minor debuff.
“Reduced cooldowns, stacking downwards” so if you’re in a “good” party, then when they surprisepikachu kick you at the end the cooldown is lower.
“Warning before Debuff” - When you get removed from dungeon you get a Warning but allows you to requeue, if you get kicked again you get debuffed on subsequent leaves.
“Add reporting for kicking” - This is akin FF where they investigate if someone is really, really using votekick so often and gets reported for it that often as well. WoW used to do this.
If it’s a new or better suggestion I may also add it to my list above :>
What you think it is, aka your personal opinion. The alternative is not having it (or many other ideas) which cannot be easily abused just because you can abuse it.
The deserter gets applied regardless of you leaving or you getting votekicked for no apparent reason. Honestly votekick shouldn’t even apply this deserter debuff as you aren’t deserting the dungeon by choice. Whilst the people abusing VK are not facing any punishment or take accountability for their abusing of this badly designed system.
Blizzard not adding a report feature to people who abuse VK shows that abusing systems is apparently fine and leads to their issues of griefing/toxicity anyways, they are not solving the issue. You could almost say Blizzard is the issue.
My thought on the topic is everything is fine, has been for over like 15 years since this system has been this way and nothing needs to will change. There is no issue to address.
Everyone has learned to deal with it over the years and the few outliers who still cry for veeeeery rarely having to wait 30 minutes (oh the horror) for not doing anything truly wrong will get over it as well.
When you say everyone has learned to deal with it, what you mean to say is, they have been forced to live with it. 30 minutes might not seem like much, if you have an abundance of time, but if you want to level through dungeons, for instance, you are getting a 30-minute timeout for other people’s toxicity.
Do you genuinely believe it is okay to ruin other people’s experience, because it amuses you to abuse a function? Would you do the same thing in real life?
It is already well established that a lot of people have had bad experiences and want the system revised.
Having a system like I propose makes sure you can still kick the odd fellow you might meet, but it also means that a toxic group can no longer abuse it without themselves facing consequences.
On Retail of course you have the benefit that any relevant dungeon content is non-RDF anyway so people need to have minimum social skills to join a group anyway.
Well aren’t you a dramatic one? A 30 minute timeout “ruins” your experience? How often do you get kicked lol? Even if it were as frequently as once per month…that is all it takes to “ruin” your experience? A 30 minute timeout from dungeons once per month? My…
No it does not amuse me, it’s actually kinda sad.
It depends how you look at it. 30 min is the timer of the deserter, yes. But if you also consider queue times for a DPS that’s for example leveling up, the queue time can easily reach 40-50 minutes at times. That’s maybe 45 minutes in queue, followed by 30 minutes deserter, into another 45 minutes of queueing. Now we’re getting closer to the 2 hour mark, which sometimes is an entire day worth of gametime for some people. Which is then wasted because some prick thought it was funny, wanted to grief or whatever the reason might be.
Honestly all this tells me is that I have to question whether you play Classic at all…
If you do the Q for DPS in all leveling brackets is only a few minutes. Sure if you play during extreme off hours…maybe, during normal hours however a DPS Q is usually under 10 minutes, during peak hours less than 5 even. And this goes the same for endgame twilight protocol dungeons.
If Qs were indeed constantly 20+ minutes (at which point you would be questing next to it anyways), sure I can see how that could end up an annoying…but even then still, worst case…how many times are you getting kicked? People that try to paint this as a real issue always talk as if this happens constantly to everyone which…is impossible considering how many people have no issue with this at all and how many dungeons are run every day.
I play Cata classic, quite a lot of it I’d say. I have 20 lvl 85s, 10 of them at ilvl 380+, 4 of them at 8/8hc.
I haven’t leveled anything for quite a while, but last autumn when I leveled my hunter I could easily have 40-50 minute queues for RDF in certain brackets. Being a night shift worker, I do play on off hours now and then, late nights, early mornings etc. Honestly, it could even be worse than 40-50 mins. Not everyone works mon-fri 9-17 and have their gaming time between 19-22 in the evenings.
No not everyone does, but most do and as I said multiple times already, getting kicked like this is not as common as some people want to suggest.
It’s scenario that might inconvenience a rather small portion of players pretty rarely. That’s probably why they weighed to make the change in the first place.
