Classic Cataclysm Dungeon finder is like a joke. People play like its retail+++ a.ka keys.
If u die one time, you will be kicked from the group and then u get a Dungeon Deserter for 30 min?!
Yeah its wild, i joined a group right before bloodlord so they kicked people, then while killin the last boss they tried kicking the tank cuz he didnt know what to do. Then on the second pull they just kicked 1 of the dps mid fight for no reason lmao
And the reason why this was implemented - to prevent people from asking to get kicked so they would avoid deserter debuff - is not even fully valid, because you can refuse to help others to clear the rest of the dungeon and avoid deserter debuff, simply by disconnecting from the game, which will get you removed from the group, then log back few minutes later.
Only improvement is that people are not being nuisance to others in order to get themselves kicked, at the cost of ruining the experience with undeserved 30 minutes ban from RDF for players who got kicked for stupid or no reason.
Do some quests/achievements while you have the debuff. Level your professions and farm some mats. You donāt have more than 30 minutes to play? Then maybe WoW Classic is not the game for you.
You are supposed to do this when waiting in queue for RDF, not when you wait for undeserved RDF ban to expire.
You can do this any time you want, it doesnāt matter whether you have been kicked from a dungeon or not.
Of course you can. My point however, was that your statement
āyou can do quests/achievements while waiting for RDF ban to expireā
does not validate undeserved kick from toxic RDF PUG.
Yeah, this is the stupidest feature that Blizzard couldāve implemented. Donāt give me the crap argument that this was implemented to avoid ppl asking for kicks to avoid deserter debuff, so what? Why do I have to get punished for 30 minutes for getting a involuntary kick for example āsome mage in my group wants the same ring as me, and he just issues a vote to kick me which everybody signs as yes blindly cause ppl are just that lowā, why should I get punished for 30 min for that?
Why should I just sit around for 30 min not being able to do my favorite activity in the game just because Blizzard canāt find an alternative to this? Itās like they are paying me, and not me thatās paying them for this product, for Godās sake.
Maybe I have limited time to play, and spare me the phrases like āuhhh just do professions, uhhh just do gathering, uhhh just do dailies in those 30 minutesā, how about I donāt want to, and I want to organise my game time for which I pay for the way I want to, and not get stupidly punished against my will and for doing nothing wrong? How about that, huh?
How about I want to do what ever I want for the time I pay with my own money? How about I donāt get punished because Blizzard is uncapable of implementing another way of preventing ppl from asking for kicks in dungeons, if they really want to prevent this?
The least you could do is find another debuff, call it differently, or change the damn description, it clearly sais āYou abandoned your group and must wait beforeā¦bla blaā, which is making ppl frustrated or mad for good reason, cause they are not abandoning anything, they are just getting kicked, by toxic low ppl for God knows what stupid reasons. Just put another debuff for Godās sake, make it shorter or smthā¦is it that hard?
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I am in state of confusion about this, as Iām not sure how to put it without it sounding like a rant.
However this is important and probably the reason why WOW as a game isnāt growing way more, because make no mistake this game is amazing , may be the best game ever even though it has flaws.
Ive done a few dungeons while leveling a warrior. People flame me that my gear is horrible and to get better. Even though thatās the burst place to get gear and itās not even hard, noone is dying and itās possible to chain pull the entire dungeon.
Of course my gear aināt awesome I just started cataclysmā¦
So the problem I have with this game wish is awesome btw is the people playing it. They are rude, do not use chat and will never talk in a normal manner. Itās toxic or just kick because they feel like it.
Imagine if I wasnāt a player from old with an MMORPG mouse, macros and what all my abilities do? How is a new player ever going to survive in a group of full heirloom players who canāt even use instance chat, the just type ordinarily which easily disappears among the loot text and do personal attacks rather than helping new players.
Cataclysm didnāt kill wow. It was the players themself and I do not mean YOU.
Just being on the forum makes you an exception and not the rule. But in game just wow.
The behaviour is a result of how the game is designed. It evolved like this 15 years ago and it did evolve like this again.
Dealing with rude toxic people, is still possible. Itās much worse when you didnāt even noticed the chat at first though.
I just experienced random mage from Firemaw realm in RDF PUG who /w me in the middle of speed-run clear where tank does not wait for anyone and chain-pull all the time, thus I didnāt noticed the chat at that time.
Noticed only after I got sudden loading screen followed by series of insults, because I rolled need on green belt from trash mobs for DE, which was apparently crucial major upgrade for the mage. At least till he replace it by much better item in about hour later.
Point is that I never roll need on any blue item from boss, unless I intend to equip the item, and I would have traded him the belt if Iāve noticed the chat.
These kind of people however are unable to reason with. They see rolling on green item that is not intended for your class as heinous offense, not noticing the chat as another unforgivable crime, and RDF ban for 30 minutes as nowhere near enough punishment for such trespass.
According to the mage, Iām braindead and shouldnāt be allowed to play the game at all, just because I rolled on low quality item for DE and didnāt noticed the chat for being too busy to keep up with rest of the group.
When community of the game is like this, I donāt want to play this game at all.
I have two chars on max level, many other alts, lot of things to do in-game, however, because of this toxic community, all I want to do at such moment, is to close the game and spent my time doing something else, thinking whether WoW subscription is worth the money.
Itās not just this one case, I had many encounters with toxic RDF PUG, and the red gauge with āI hate this gameā written at the end is slowly filling up.
To be fair, it is a dick move to roll need on items for disenchanting purposes, regardless of its colour. Just use the greed option if you donāt intend to equip the item, like intended.
Not every green quality item is crap, you know. Iām currently wearing 6 of those random greens on my 84 priest alt. You canāt expect to get rare quality loot in every slot, especially in these times when people are pressing need on literally anything, regardless of it being useful or not.
I would also vote yes on votekick for people who need random items without a word of explanation in chat.
I acknowledge that itās not ābest course of actionā, we are talking about level 68-78 and WotLK dungeons though.
I roll need on greens because I still train the profession and one pile of Dust, not stack just single one unit, cost about four times the value of the item, items from which I could DE the Dust sells for ten times their value, and thereās also not much demand for those enchants on velum thus they donāt sell on AH to make any profit from this.
Itās just not as simple as buying all the mats on AH to skill up, and then getting the money back by selling low level enchant vellums, because they wouldnāt ever sell for the price of mats required.
Most people does not mind since they would sell the item to vendor for gold or two, thus it have no value to them.
However, as Iāve mentioned, if the green is upgrade to them, Iāll always give them the item.
I would do so in this case as well if I wouldnāt get kicked, but instead got properly notified when outside of combat.
It was only after I got kicked that I scrolled through the chat and noticed āits intellect broā /w from the mage between several lines of system messages for experience gained from stack of mobs in dungeon, followed by ātardā and āYou dont take stuff people need dumb c*ntā
Even after all of that I would still give the item to the angry mage, but you canāt send mail cross realm.
He however never initiated trade to notify me he need the item since I didnāt noticed the chat, and based on my experience with other players, he probably didnāt even need the item, only used it as excuse to leash out on someone.
It most definitely is profitable to you, but itās also potentially as profitable to anyone else in your group. In my head this is a matter of principle. By taking random stuff in random groups with strangers you are implying that your profit is more important than other peoples profit(s). Which is a toxic thing to do, imo.
It would have been a different story if it was your group with your loot rules and people who join accept it that way. Or if you ask in chat before starting, āis it okay if I take unwanted greens to level my profession?ā, and your party members have a chance of giving their opinion about it. But just assuming people willingly will hand you loot without even bringing it up is toxic.
Although I think flaming and cursing in whispers is unnecessary, I would probably also have initiated a votekick if I was that mage. Stuff like this just happens too regularly these days you canāt be arsed the argument every time, and rather just get the ninjalooter out of there in the fastest way possible.
Itās actually very simple. If you donāt want people to be toxic to you, donāt behave in toxic ways yourself in the first place.
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This is toxic behavior to you? Bit selfish, OK, I would take that, but where it is toxic?
All they need to do is to say that they are not OK with me rolling need on green items, and I will roll greed for the rest of that run.
Kicking some without even trying to reasonably explain to them what they have issue with, and then spam chat with insults. Thatās toxic.
This is one of the largest issue with this game. People donāt talk to each other.
I they have any issue, they go straight for the vote kick because in their spiteful grief, they know youāll get debuff for the 30 minutes, and rest of the group just mindlessly comply.
Nobody from that group asked me to give the item to the mage, they just clicked the yes button without checking which item Iāve supposedly steal from the mage, because that would take too much time and effort.
Yes, it is to me. I already explained why in the sentence you quoted. You are bypassing the commonly agreed loot rules and taking things which are not necessarily yours, without asking first.
Why should people have to actively tell you to not ninja items, instead of you just greeding like the vast majority of players do? Canāt you just play with common sense?
I mean, this goes right back at you. You seemingly donāt ask if you can need on items before you take action either.
I donāt votekick because I want some guy sitting afk in a capital for half an hour, I votekick becuase I donāt want the guy to potentially steal loot that is not his.
Do I need to repeat myself that Iāve never rolled need on any blue item just to DE? Ever.
Because unlike blue items which provide meaningful upgrade for longer period of time during leveling, green items drop from any mob anywhere on Azeroth, and quest reward items provide better stats.
You might argue that itās about principles, that I shouldnāt be allowed to roll on low level BoE greens that are rarely of any practical use during leveling, but I need them to training the enchanting, trade them if asked, and I would partly agree with you.
I would however also counter that argument, because rolling on green items that barely have any meaningful use during leveling and trading them only if asked is certainly not offense that would require whoever do this to be punished with 30 minutes long ban from RDF.
I have several bags full of BoE items from CATA dungeons that I won by greed roll on main character, prepared for DE. Before I get there, I need supply of mats to skill up the enchanting.
Thatās why I roll on low level green items, and most people does not care, only those who need to prove their moral superiority above others, or worse - those whoās only joy in life is to ruin the game for others. Calling my reasoning toxic is ridiculous.
You can morally justify your actions in any way you please, but that doesnāt change the fact that I and apparently others do not agree with you. You already called your behaviour selfish twice, so deep down I think you know yourself that your actions are not on some moral highground.
The idea behind need, greed etc does not change just because the colour of the item does. Itās not up to you to decide how big of an upgrade an item must be for a player to equip it, and definitely not up to you if your profession leveling is more important than others legitimate gear upgrades, even if they are minor. An upgrade is an upgrade.
I never said you canāt roll for items, just roll appropriately. That is, greed if you donāt intend to equip the item, and intend to use it for selling, crafting or whatever personal gain you can think of.
Then why canāt you apply the same principle to the previous items aswell? If you want something, buy it or farm it if you canāt afford it. Instead of using other random players as pawns in your personal farm.
You and I can agree to disagree here. But itās still a fact that what you do is frowned upon by parts of the community. And you should be prepared that some people you meet will oppose you in one way or another, guaranteed.
Remember, you were the one initially writing about having to deal with rude and toxic people. When it was your conscious action that started it in the first place.
Start the dungeon by typing: hi, Iām levelling my disenchant, do you guys mind if I need roll on all the greens?
If no one objects, then go right ahead. if anyone objects, donāt do it.
Better yet, make guild groups and tear through dungeons and just get everything: some are more than happy to help you get maxed out.
So basically you say that because I roll need on green items with very little value, that I do need not because I want to sell the item or mats on AH to make profit, (which is the purpose of greed roll) but instead to DE the item and use those mats to skill up the profession which start to be profitable only once you reach enchants viable for current content.
You say that for this reason, I deserve to get kicked by people who are deaf to reasoning and doesnāt accept the fact that Iāll will give them the item if they simply target my char and type /trade instead of sending short sentence like āits intellect broā during combat where everyone is focused on taking down stack of mobs before they take down tank once healer run out of mana. And the message get immediately scrolled out of the chat window.
I indeed agree to disagree on this matter.
Thatās what Iām doing. I greet with /hi and ask if itās OK, to roll need on green items, and most of the times I never get any response.
Only time someone respond, is in case they also have enchanting and say that they will roll need as well, which is fair competition for items that would otherwise be most likely sold to vendor.
According to some people like the other rogue Iām arguing with, rolling need on green items that I donāt intend to equip is still punishable offense.
Also itās not like I was rolling need on green items ever since first entering dungeon on lvl 15.
I sometimes make few runs with main character to stack up on green items of required level, itās however not very efficient, because while I save money on enchanting mats, I do not gain experience on the alt with enchanting during that time.
Most important thing is that never had any intent to justify rolling need on green items for DE before I got into argue with Babastiltz.
My point was that people who does not properly notify that they need to equip the item when the group is idle to avoid not being noticed during combat, and instead goes straight for the vote kick, followed by series of insults, chasing me away from this game with their toxicity.
According to Babastiltz though, Iām the toxic person here, and deserve any vote kick that comes my way.
I think that making such fuzz over low level green item is absurd, and even though I accept their need for the item and trade them in normal circumstances, thereās apparently no other option for me than to accept that Iām the bad toxic person here. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ