Dungeon Deserter

Dungeon deserter is the only good thing in cata. And hellfire lowbies.

Just got kicked out of ZG for asking the DK tank why he was needing on epic intellect cloth gear. In these cases it would be interesting to see why. I can’t imagine it containing any form of intelligent reasoning.

But oh well, I guess they didn’t want a 370 ilvl healer carry. Was time for a lunchbreak anyway, so 30 mins later with a few hot dogs in my system, I could carry the next group instead.

There’s a great long list of reasons to not have it, which are better than the list of reasons to keep it - very few of which hold any relevance any longer these days

Like many institutionalized things, it’s original purpose is moot

I just can’t understand parts of this community.

Went to valor cap my main for the week like usual. First dungeon was ZA. This druid tank was complaining in broken english and votekicking a mage nonstop for no apparent reason. Reasons were “low dmg”, “no hc”, “noob”, etc etc. The druid wasn’t that good himself btw. Then he needs on every single epic drop. He died on one pack for not moving out of the bad stuff on the floor, then tells us we’re all noobs and he left. After the run, I looked at his logs, best average performance was 4.5 with 8/13 normal progress and 1/13 hc. Like these people must be doing this intentionally, there’s just no way you can be this bad at the game and still have such a toxic attitude towards everyone and their grandmothers. People should really humble themselfes.

Yeah, but everyone hates Deadmines HC, so what choice do we have?

Just got kicked on my disc priest by the tank (my assumption). He wrote several times “priest use memory on the boss”. I have no clue what he meant so I asked what he was talking about. Then he replied “omg dude watch a guide” and I was kicked.

Been playing priest on and off since 2005. I still have no clue what he wanted me to do, lol. Only thing I can think of is perhaps mind control, but it still makes no sense to cast mind control on a random boss in ZA for no reason.

My Rogue got removed from his first ZG group this evening.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd Toxic community here we come.

Get to 347 iLvl, joins my first ZG, 2nd on DPS and I die on the Poison boss - Immedeately gets voted.
Asks why, “Because you died, get good” 30min debuff… Sigh - Looks at combat log, wasn’t to the invisible line on the ground but infact lack of healing…

DUNGEON DESERTER
You abandoned your group and must wait before using Dungeon Finder or Raid Finder again.”

No no, I did not desert anything, I got kicked. There is a difference Blizzard.

I do hate that their is zero communication anymore, all it takes is 1 person to not like something (Honestly, likely it was merely a case that my iLvl was lowest in the group and they just wanted a fast run) Start the vote and everyone just becomes a sheep and presses Yes.

I understand why the system was brought in but it isn’t working.
If anything it’s driving people away as people will get fed up - its not very MMO isit?

They know they can vote out the weak players and replace them in seconds, it stops people being able to gear alts and Blizz wonder why the community raid logs…

Most damage is actually avoidable on that boss. The things you have to look out for is his breath (frontal cone, stand behind him as much as possible), a channeled ability that I believe can be interrupted, poison pools on the floor (will most likely not spawn in melee though), a link between two players that requires to run away from each other, and of course the maze that hurts if you step into the edges of it. There seems to be some visibilty bug that makes it less transparent when looking from above, you can adjust your camera angle a bit if you find it difficult to spot. And in phase 2 there will be (I think) 3 beams that follows players around, these should be kited around the maze.

With that said though, it’s a bit of a dick move to kick someone for dying once. Happens to everyone, I died to the flame gauntlet earlier today when not paying attention. But the best thing you can do as a player in a pug group (especially a dps class that is instantly replaceable) is to read up on everything in beforehand and understand what you should and shouldn’t be doing. Will hopefully save you from situations like the one above.

In my dungeons we were getting DPS with ilvl 350- 360 doing less than 6k dps.

The group decided to kick them because we could replace them in 10s and get a DPS that will minimum do x2 the damage. I would say 90% of dungeons now have players who don’t understand their classes or the game and go onto HC and get confused when they get kicked.

If WoW implemented a System to Promote me carrying bad groups such as FF14 Mentor Queue than I wouldn’t kick them and carry them. If theres no reward incentive people will take the path of least resistance and will just kick every bad player in the dungeon group.

It’s just a random pug dungeon chill out

Turn your dps meter off and try enjoy playing with your team rather than take how they play like a personal attack

Was the person as well geared as the rest of the team? you are aware that some kids play this right? as well as people with various disabilities?

No? ok now you do,

So back to what you where doing, playing a random pug dungeon, BIG FREAKING WHOOP DEE DOO, It’s nothing complicated, nothing that needs super high dps pumping like there’s no tomorrow, trying to chase each other on a meter.

You had the chance to help this player either gear up /finish dungeon for maybe the first time (not all players are hardcore life long fanboys) give them advice during the dungeon and maybe add them as a friend …but you choose to get offended by their low dps and kick them.

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I think Holydk has a point, though. There will be a point in this game when you simply need to somewhat know what’s going on to not be a huge burden on your group. Some “regular” heroics come to mind, and there are some parts in ZA/ZG that can be unforgiving if you don’t have a clue about your class and/or the mechanics. We will see even more of this with the coming heroic+ dungeons.

I’m one of those who actually try to help players who seemingly don’t have a clue about the game. But there really isn’t any incentive to. Most of the time (I’d say like 90% of times) your guidance, tips and tricks are met with total silence. There have also been times where I have been kicked myself for trying to learn others to play their class (such as fire mages having fireball as their main filler spell, which you should know in max level heroic content imo). This far in Cata, I can only remember one single player that was actually grateful for my advice on how some parts of this games group content works, how his spec works, and redirecting him to sources like Wowhead for more in depth info. This was after the group decided to kick him after doing almost no dps, needing on every single item and not responding in party chat.

So a justified removal then. Glad to read about one of those here. You should atleast know the basics of your class/specc before you venture into heroics.

Way back when i queued up for heroic dungeons , i would not bother telling people about their class. I just wanted it to be over and done.
I believe anything past vanilla/TBC is not beginner friendly.

If WoW gave me rare mounts, consumes, titles and double valor, I would never kick anyone again, explain their rotation and the boss mechanics and since I am Full HC BiS and do 40-50k DPS, me sticking the dungeon out would allow bad players more lenience in fights to do worse dps, fail mechanics and to always get full clear.

Asmongold talked about how punishing wiping in this game is. You got 3-5 minutes runback to the boss, rebuffing which is actually quite difficult task if you have new players, you might of lost gold from consumes and you have repair costs plus your weapon or gear could be broken and now you are effectively useless.

In FF14, it teleports you when you ress to where you wiped, consumes last through death, theres no buffs in the game so you don’t need to rebuff and gear won’t break in dungeons for comparison. You can see how already the wipe happening in WoW will cause a toxic situation as everyones being hella punished and the mistake might not even be on you.

FF14 tackled this issue post Heavenward in 2016. Their old HC dungeons were extremely hard that required Raid level tactics and co-ordination. I loved this as a Midcore player as it felt my skill was rewarded but in reality what happened was 50% of groups were forced to disband because no player in the group was skilled enough to do the tactics, good dps were unable to carry as the Tank + Healer were dying too early in the fights. Even with the extra rewards people were still vote kicking players or abondoning the group.

So the Devs decided they wanted dungeons to have a very high success rate as they decided dungeons should be casual content and the first step in becoming a more midcore level player. What happened?

:-

  1. The tactics were tonned down.

  2. A permanent buff was given to the group if you wiped: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25% stacking damage and healing buff that didn’t go away after the grouped wiped to help weak groups stick it out and clear the content.

  3. The commendation system promotes people to help each other as rewards are unlocked through this system, you basically are forced at the end of the dungeon to vote for someone you think was helpful or imperative to your success as the group.

  4. Sprout system puts an icon on new players to make them visable to experienced players and this sprout symbol is only removed when they get to endgame + have enough gear + gametime.
    Basically lets the group know this person is new and probably a clown chill out with being mean.

  5. Every Dungeon which its someones first time, you get a message in the chat saying this is sombody’s first time here and the group will be rewarded A LOT of extra End Game Currency if you stick it out with the same members who started this dungeon. Its the Devs saying yeah this inexperienced group will take longer to finish the content so we will encourage more hardcore players to stick it out with the group as they will be handsomely rewarded for spending extra time.

  6. Lastly Mentors! Experienced FF14 players with certain requirements such as all dugeons, trials and PvE content completed, ever type of role max level DPS, Healer and Tank and > 1500 commendations get a specific icon for their character and get a special dungeon queue. This queue priotises you getting put into groups who are struggling (Multiple wipes), groups that have had > 2 people leaving. This system tries to work as the most experienced players getting put in the worst situations for new players. Mentors are not allowed to be toxic and will lose the rights to become one of reported. This basically makes it visable with a symbol beside your name that you are person who is knowledgable about the game and have taken the role to helping new players. New players will approach ask questions and advice to these players as they know theh will have a 99%+ chance of being helped and will certainly not be flammed. Mentors have to reapply every expansion to become one and every patch witb new content they must make sure they have completed the relevant content or they will lose their mentor status.

This is the length WoWs competition went into removing the so called ‘Toxic’ Aspect of the Random Dungeon Queue. They added so many smart systems and relied on rewarding positive outcomes and not punishing stronger players for playing with weaker groups but instead rewards them. WoW Classic + SoD have been excellent opportunities for changes like this but Blizzard has been far behind FF14 systems for years. Even retail hasn’t implemented any of this stuff.

The fact I can only name 1 system in World of Warcraft that is superior to FF14 systems, shows you how outdated WoWs design is and how Blizzard actually promotes and rewards anti-social and toxic behaviour in their game. They breed a bad Community through choice and people need to stop blamming thr players but the company Blizzard for this. The FF14 Devs spent a lot of blood, sweat and tears to establish a positive community, it was luck or just chance, they put in the hard work to achieve it.

That 1 system is people are curious is the staggering Valor Cap weekly. The only system that WoW has that is more modern + better than FF14s.

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