Elemental Changes Shadowlands

Does anyone else find the changes announced highly frustrating?

Going back to a warlord’s design with earth shock and earthquake, meaning fumination stacks and seismic lightning. I actually quit the game then because of how clunky it felt. The gameplay was fantastic in legion, and has been pretty okay this expansion, to go back to that playstyle saddens me - Am I the only one that feels this way?

Also, on a side note, adding damage into a searing totem for nostalgias sake might seem like a good idea, but having part of our core damage in a totem that can be one shot doesn’t seem like it will be good for pvp

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I too liked the Legion Gameplay, subsequently the mostly unchanged BFA playstyle too (i haven’t forgotten about Gust of Wind, GIVE IT BACK)

I played a Shaman in BC too, but not inbetween, and i was really glad when i saw searing totem was gone. It was gone for a reason.

Well, these are my concerns before i have actually played the new design, so i’ll wait once i can get my hands on and give actual feedback on it.

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Not fan of the changes. Fulmination stacks and mealstorm ES usage felt like the same type of game play. Lets see how this turns out but so far this don’t feel promising.

Shamans at this point haven’t had any exciting is a very long time, casting Lightning bolt while running maybe was the last unique with class/spec.

Searing totem was remove because a fair bit of player feedback thought it was terrible for years, I rather have stoneclaw totem back… It had more usage.

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no it is awesome.
Because all classes turned into build/spend
finally we have one class which is designed around cds again which I personally love

Shamans will be a very archaic class with those changes.
You can be pretty sure that the shared shock cd is returning too.
And Searing totem? Its horrible, you guys must have forgotten how bad it is to have your dps dependent on that tiny stick.

And I sincerely doubt we will be allowed to get back unleashed lightning. Imho, I think its terrible with such a radical class change after years with getting used to it. If anything we should have more abilities interacting with maelstrom.

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Never was a fan of melstorm shaman,we lost some of more iconic signatures like totems,shields,weap enchants/enhancments…it is good we are geting some baseline abbilities back for all 3 specks.Now lets see how the talents look.

Would be good if they revert back from homogenization and pruning of classes and speck for the sake of m+ or faster consol type of plays.

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Dog forbides we ever do any dmg. Builder spender at least FUNCTIONED.
CDs? 3 minute cooldown for a 15 second window? A whole 7 lava bursts?

Amazing.

well shaman worked much better before legion, so I have no idea what you are on about.
ascendence was once scary now it is garbage.
Just remember a time where lava burst equaled the dmg of a today’s earth shock.

also ascendence as a talent is the biggest crap ever, no denying that

I am looking forward to being able to use Earth Shock again, not having to wait until I reach 50 mael before I can press it.

As the Elemental in SL was presented, I like it. Only two things I struggle to digest:

  1. Flame Shock CD and also reduced the dot from 24 sec (bfa) to 18 sec Shadowlands. Having some system to make FS free from CD as in legion for example would be useful.
  2. Mastery: the elemental mastery is something that I have always hated because it does not allow the shaman to scale well. For example, in BFA and in Legion the mastery has always been one of our worst stat often to be minimized as much as possible. I would expect a review of this in SL for example by adding a part of damage to it such as: increase the damage of overloads by x% or increase the damage of your shocks by x% or increase the fulmination bonus damage by x% , things like that.
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I recall seeing something about Shock Management comming back. Am I remembering wrong? If its true with shared cd comming back, I cant imagine it will impact frost shock or it would make icefury useless. But it would be brutal for Flame Shock with the lowered duration.

As maining Ele Shammy for about 15 years, I want to explain how those changes will never be good and how Blizzard can change this.
First of all,we will be talking about surviving in our beloved game, and lets say Shamans are total trash in this. With very low mobility and no proper surviving skill, Shamans basically a good and quick target in PvP and in PvE too.
( YES we have Earth Ele but will be talk about this later abit)
Shamans need BACK [Gust of Wind] ! like MUST ! I don’t know why Blizzard removed this, I guess Hazzikostas’ main got smoked really hard by Ele Shaman back then in Legion .
Again, [Gust of Wind] must come back as a basic skill from lvl 1. Implicitly.
[Spiritwalker’s Grace] Good move but still 2 different utilities for movement.

Now,when we can run away from our enemies, the enemy still can get you, kill you, and obviously less likely waste your time.
So Shamans need some kind of thing to save our brave asses, and Shamans have nothing good : Mail Armor-its just for record, [Astral Recall] - them can press on it all day,It will not save them ! Never was and never will. Absorb shields never were good enough. Why ,Blizzard, still giving us to choose between [Nature’s Guardian] and [Wind Rush Totem] ,some kind of game in a place where it shouldn’t be. You can run but not far or u can live but not for too long?
PLEASE Blizzard, put at least Saving utilities separately from movement (Tier #3 and Tier #5).
The Earth Elemental is great but his 5 min CD, in our realities I would easily put on 3 min CD.
Blizzard have to think about some Great Elemental Save, some form to Immune direct damage. Maybe some [Tornado or Storm form] that gives Immune to all income dmg and damaging all enemies in 8 yards,or get them stunned, or whatever… There is a tons of things related to the power of the elements you can think about (or if you that lazy,always can take some ideas from HearthStone) … but instead …
Them Blizzard trying to do some tricks with old mechanics, trying to change talents and spells (not really:), buffing (again) the [Lava Burst] , changing from Maelstrom to Fulmination, like changing name to same thing will change something.
[Echoing Shock] instead [Call the Thunder] ? I guess its oke… But no really fundamental changes,no new creates or Ideas, The Elemental Shaman should be a STORM in Azeroth, an indestructible power , but instead , same waiting for procs, and praying to god for good crit shot at [Earth Shock] , with less AoE!.. [Earthquake] 3 sec cast? its crazy, I mean… just needs to comeback be Instant. why to even touch this skill, was working great with [Tectonic Thunder ] and [Aftershock] , maybe not the best AoE around all AoE builds around all classes but at least it WORKED and was the most important, FUN ! 3 sec cast [Earthquake] just killing it. You basically can fall a sleep during a cast in long raids. Maybe this was an idea, to give some rest to a hard working gamers…
Another point: Blizzard said totems R BACK!
But I say,they already were in the game and were feeling pretty good enough I’d say. Wonder how many shamans or Raid leaders know about Last phase N’zoth can be easily avoided by [Tremor Totem] + [Wind Rush Totem], or how many ppl using [Earthbind Totem] , and ofc the selection of tiers #3/5 that need to be changed, I mentioned before. The [Magma Totem] talent can be easy instead [Earthen Rage] ,and this talent, oh my, how this makes me mad, [Earthen Rage] should be DELETED! (like 2 years ago) one of a most useless Talents Blizzard ever made, lazy waste of talent.
And this is only a couple things that popped up in my head right after I saw the new changes, and them were working on this “that hard”… we had non info from Blizzcon, well now I see why :frowning:
Ofc everything can change from now, we still don’t know when The Shadowlands will come out.
No,I have no Alpha or will have Beta, didn’t even see the youtube videos on how it currently works.
My opinion only based on what written in Class changes on WoWHead.
Hopefully Blizzard will make a progress into this Class and will think about new things for Shamans, to make them be a best caster Class at least once :slight_smile:

Ummm guys, I wonder if we’re looking at the same patch notes.

First of all, changing from Maelstorm to Fulmination stacks doesn’t change too much. We just switch from pooling one resouce to pooling buff stacks and that’s still a gainer-spender rotation.

At the same time Earth shock’s base damage is reduced from 210% SP (Spell power) to 42% SP. At the same time Fulmination gives us 10% SP damage per stack. So at 8 stacks Earth shock deals 122% SP damage which is almost 2 times lower than the one we currentle have.

At the same time Elemental Blast, which also consumes Fulmination stacks deals 62% SP base damage and gives extra stats. So now we can throw Earth Shock in the garbage can as it does double the Frost shock damage without any stacks and does not give any other benefit.

Mastery is still a joke that doesn’t scale. Nice.

On the positive side, changes to Earthquake allow it’s more frequent use, Lava Burst’s damage is buffed and Echoing Shock talent looks interesting.

But at this state and with the loss of Azerite talents and Essences the Ele spec will be unplayable at the start of Shadowlands just like it was unplayable at the start of BfA.

We need buffs right now and not in 9.1

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As previously mentioned, the current elemental mastery is a problem especially now that the malestorm is gone it makes even less sense.
An idea would be the following:
switch Mastery with Elemental fury that is, the current mastery, Elemental Overload becomes a normal passive of the specialization with the fixed chace of 30/35% while the new mastery is:
Elemental Fury: increases the critical damage of your abilities by an additional x% and also increases the probability of activating Lava surge by an additional y%.

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Mixed reviews here it seems.

I understand the annoyance with builder/spender. However, the thing to note with that is fulmination stacks and CL -> Earthquake is essentially builder spender anyway, just having two seperate types of builder.

If you played in WoD you may remember this very well -> 4 mob pack, cast chain lightning, cast 0.4 sec earthquake (which feels pointless, still capped by global but essentially roots the shaman in place)

Searing totem is nothing but a nostalgic gem having damage tied into totems SUCKS, and anyone who plays vanilla and watches fire nova totem get one shot in pvp will be able to attest to that. It’s either going to be overtuned so that playing against bad players will make it OP and it almost useless against good players, or it’s just going to be another thing you press to min max that does basically nothing. Not fun game play

And all time we get stun silence slow and we die in pvp healing totem not solve the many uncastable skill problem. We need more armor normal def and mobility skill
Each other classes have normal def, def skill and mobility skill, just blizz never listen to players…
All other classes can cancel slow or other curse
all can use mobility skill
all use INSTANT heal which heal like healer
all can be immortal
but we never get nothing normal Totem with hp? ohh cmon like counterstrike totem, never keep distance 1hit i continue the burst nothing more
Will be same https://youtu.be/iAnbVkrZtIc Run run run and die
We wait half year/year and all time same

the only ele changes i would say and would be totems not having a long cd and have them like the old games and surge of power being an none talent passive with it being in bfa to help shamans it was put on a talent line were 2 other core talents and it missed out on good game play and some good spell combos in singel and aoe gameplay ps totem could be on an longer duration then on aplha

Maelstrom gone? Good. Hated to play a shaman with 2 spells having a whole new resource bar that required being in combat for quite a while to build up.

Earth Shock tuned down and Lava Burst buffed? Good, now work on Lava Surge so it’s not instant cast. It does not need to be instant cast. It is Fire school, so nothing happens when it gets kicked, and it should be better DPS option than Bolt/Chain anyway so resetting CD is enough. What does need instant cast procs is Lightning Bolt, because it’s spammed filler, it is Nature spell so when it’s kicked the Shaman is pretty much unable to do anything, and it would give some much needed mobility.

Chain Lightning still AOE instead of cleave, even with just 10% damage loss per target? Bleh. For sustained AoE unprune Magma Totem, Chain was cleave until Pandaria and it worked well. Nowadays Elemental has NO cleave, just single target or AoE, and its damage is scaled badly to force it into AoE role because at 2 targets Bolt deals better damage than Chain. Because reasons. Solution: Chain back to cleave type spell - slight damage loss with every target hit after 1st, add some always available AoE spell like Magma Totem.

Flame Shock reduced duration would be acceptable if FS would also have shorter cooldown. Or Lava Burst would add few seconds more to its duration. Or haste increased its duration instead of making it tick faster. 18s is kinda short when you go hurt some dummies and realize it’s just 2 Lava Bursts, maybe 3 if you have 0 latency, tons of haste gear and Korean reflexes.

Ascendancy screws rotation up. Leveling ele shammy with 8s Ascendancy proc legendary shows just how much: unleash that big bad spender, get proc, now cast nothing but Lava Bursts, ignore maelstrom building up, ignore master of elements getting wasted, just throw burning pebbles at target. Lava Beam spam is hilarious but again resource capping is bad and damage increased when you are deliberately not targeting that which you WANT to hurt is just dumb. Replace it with Elemental Mastery - 15s 3m cd that grants say 15-20% spell haste. Forcing overloads on everything is too much in certain situations so let’s agree Stormkeeper does not belong here.

Mastery needs reworking because it scales badly or rather it doesn’t. Too RNGey, you either get big procs and rule the meters, or you don’t and you suck, you need to be 2/3rds in the game to get it, and the big spenders don’t cause overloads anyway. Solution: Lower damage (increasing with more Mastery), higher proc chance, base spell damage increased so Shaman can kill something without reliance on Mastery gear or being high enough level to have Mastery. In Wrath it was 33% chance for proc, 50% damage, and worked only off Lightning Bolt & Chain because Lava Burst was already the one cd to rule them all and fillers needed some love. End result was that Bolt dealt some 65-70% of Lava Burst damage and had 20% longer cast time, so Lava was definitely something to build a rotation on, not another weak proc to throw at the target while you wait for the big spender. Mastery should be a bonus to already well-working rotation, not a crutch.

And this big spender is guilty of taking too long to build up. Fulmination was introduced in Cata as the way to make Elemental very simple “FS-LVB-Bolt spam until LVB is ready or FS ends” rotation more interesting (and demanding). While adding builder/spender elements (sorry, couldn’t resist) into CD based rotation generally was meh, more flexibility is good - as long as spender isn’t hitting 4x harder than the main spec cooldown, which is what we have now. Tuning ES damage under LVB but over Bolt is good.
Seismic Thunder is something I missed (didn’t play WoD), but it means Elemental cannot cast its most powerful AoE spell instantly when needed, you have to wait and build it up. So when you can, you don’t have any targets left for your grand AoE because DHs already wasted 'em with eye beams. This is BAD. How bad? There was a period in BFA prepatch (summer 2018) when people were literally asking me what is that blue class I play. Because nobody in their right mind would ever play a Shaman back then, so screwed they were. THAT bad. Maybe just remove Earthquake and bring back DPS fire totems?

Totems in general should be unpruned together with 3 Call of Something spells that allowed you to have set up 3 combinations of totems and instantly cast 4 totems you wanted to use right now. Otherwise totems will be judged harshly by their value/GCD ratio and thus will be hidden in walls, shrubs, or just stay unused.
Most wanted would be Stoneclaw - on-demand absorb shield is a must, because Shamans currently have NO absorb at all unless they get legendary neck or azerite trait and it SUCKS to have your already long as entrails cast time pushed back just because a mob hit you for 1 hp. So cast Stoneclaw Totem, have 20-25% HP as absorb shield, duration say 30 seconds and cd 25, like mage shields, keep calm and cast lightning bolts.
Another good totem would be Flametongue/Wrath for Intellect buff, unique to class/spec buffs instantly make for mandatory X in group and thus such things should be available in several ways.
I’d also unprune Earthbind by several expansions back to time when it rooted everything around for 5s for additional defense vs melee players/mobs.
Mages already have AoE roots, snares, and shields, so why Shammies cannot have nice toys? Oh wait, they DID have them, but got unpruned cuz spec fantasy! So let’s agree this never happened and bring the utilities back.

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I agree on everything you’ve written.
Currently I am not very convinced of the changes made to this spec, I see a great confusion on the direction that the elemental shaman must take.
Mainly, like you, 4 things don’t convince me particularly:

  1. FlameShock CD: they have declared that the main game will be to manage several FS to have numerous LS proc but with a 6 sec CD, a duration reduced from 24 to 18 sec this thing goes a little against their direction and be able to managing and applying multiple FS efficiently becomes too laborious. I would have expected, at the very least, a reduction in the CD or that it might have reduced with haste and that there is a more effective way of spreading FS.

  2. EarthShock and Fulmination: I prefer this solution over the Malestrom, what I am not convinced is the numbers. ES with 8 Fulmination stacks deals about 122% SP which is about half of an ES of BFA (210% SP). What I mean is that I agree to move the damage the problem is that I haven’t seen where the remaining 122% went. OK it was 20% LavaB buff but is it enough to compensate? Furthermore, I am also worried that many, too many LBolt castes are required to reach 8 Fulmination stacks, perhaps given the RNG nature of Elemental Overload, giving 100% probability to OverLoad to apply a Fulmination stack would not be bad .

  3. Mastery: this in my opinion is one of the biggest problems that Elemental shaman currently has as it scale really badly and I would have expected a re-visit going towards SL and I fully agree with what Grigory wrote.

  1. There are too many Dead talents:
    • Earthen Rage
    • Echo of the elements (base line)
    • Liquid Magma totem
    • Sourge of Power
    • Unlimited Power

As said above the changes made are not bad but it is clear to me that there is still too much confusion on this spec and this scares me. I’m afraid there are yet another mistakes made in 8.0 I’m afraid of yet another “we don’t have time we’ll fix it in 9.1”.
It is true that we are still in alpha and we are still in a state of WorkInProgress (even in BfA alpha we were in WiP but unfortunately it remained in WiP until 8.1), however I have strong doubts, even on the covenant system where I have not seen big impact skills, when I read them I said, meh.

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Bring back MOP ele

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