LFR and normal should remain as they are, there’s no reason to merge them, and mythic raids should stay as hard as they are currently, it’s not made for everyone, and shouldn’t be either.
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I actually agree with you, addons are often not accessible for new players and Blizzard should stop designing for players with addons in mind. But the statement that the only difference between top and bottom players are addons not true. The largest difference is mostly knowledge and muscle memory.
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Never have I read this much stupidity. But mythic made easier. Common shut the F up. About content you have no rights to speak about. Mythic is fine, first 8 are all sub 100 pull to sub 40 pull bosses. With jaina being the only 3-600 wipe wall.
Nerf mythic and everyone in a decentish top 400guild insta quits the game.
Mythic is for ppl that wants real hard content. Seeing as hc and nm is DOA doable in m0 gear.
If you arent new to the game. You dont do nm or lfr. Litterally any m guild. Does nm ONCE and then never again. Its fine as it is.
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Thing is, addons just make things easier. And I just didn’t met any mythic raider capable of playing with default UI. That is why they are required.
People think they are good, they are not, that’s why we have weakauras/dbm.
Also default UI is literally garbage. It actually offends my aesthetic feelings, any user interface designer would be offended by it.
Tons of useless information thrown at you everywhere.
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Never seen somebody get so triggered about 6 words. This is great. ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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though the word elite, do meen one of the best or the best in something, be it a game, a sport or what ever, in wow the word Elitist is not use for this, and the reasons for this is.
in wow the word Elitist, is used for people who.
Also a game can survive whitout elitists in it, becuse most true hardcore players are not that at all, Bullying in a game needs to be fround up on, becuse there is no need for it at all, none becomes a better player, becuse someone else tells this person he sucks.
- bash others for their gear.
- bash anyone who do not do the same dps as them, regardless of what content they are in, heck some even bash people in a heroic dungeon becuse according to them all should do same dps as them, whiout thinking of what item level the other one is.
- Elitist also can at some times also ask for horribly stopid item levels, scores for the simpliest thing, and due to this becoming an elitisit player, heck asking for Rio for a M+6 is eigher stopid or the person is elitist.
so to sum it up, in wow an Elitist person is a Bully no matter what others say.
Offcourse the word is miss used in wow, no question about it.
Highly geared people don’t do the low-requirements content very casuals attempt. So yeah, there’s borderline zero interaction between said “camps”.
In a raid pug, however, if you’re underperforming by a long shot you’re basically burdening other players. So you’ll get replaced in a heartbeat, and that’s called fairness, not elitism
Asking for the experience is not elitism.
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Came in expecting another trash thread to find out it’s actually pretty logical and an interesting read, thanks a lot OP.
The problem with the current " Casual scene " imo is that you get so many powerups and then are suddenly hit with a wall where you can do nothing about it.
Casual players get to play the game and enjoy it, however they get strong very fast, and naturally as you get stronger you wanna move to the next level and that’s where the " Elitist vs Casuals " problem happens.
Because casuals got their power levels inflated with gear, gear that invalidates a good chunk of content they naturally won’t bother with said content.
By the invalidated content I mostly mean LFR, Normal, and any M+ below +10.
You can be playing happily for a period of 2-5 weeks, gaining power and enjoying the world only to find your self at 390-405 ilvl or so and want to progress.
The obvious next step is to go to lfr or start trying their hands at M+, when they do they find that the content is insanely trivial and has no rewards at all!
Moving from LFR to normal, in normal group’s you’ll find groups that vastly overgear the content and want to ZERG through it, the players joining will probably not get any kind of benefit from these groups as they are filled with massively overgeared players to the point where you can almost afk your way through the whole thing, players won’t need to do actual tactics as bosses just die to fast and a lot of the tactics are brute forced through, that’s why we get complaints about bosses like mekkatorque because they are technical bosses also known as pug killers.
Players will notice that normal raids reward no gear as they already have better gear and will logically want to move to the next step, heroic.
Herioc raids are vastly harder than normal ones, there is brute forcing but you still need to know your way through here, and since there was no incentive to learn before as you either overgeared things or just skipped them players are hit with a wall erected by other players with is the AoTC achievement.
Casual players can’t learn because they can’t join, and they can’t progress because they aren’t let in, players erected this wall because they can’t be bothered with players who don’t know what to do, and the obvious solution of make your own raid isn’t really obvious because like I said, they are casual players that probably know nothing about raid leading and making a raid will probably have people leave.
This creates frustration and causes said casuals to just stop playing, complain about elitists or just go back to their usual activities of world quests and doing world solo content.
The same goes for M+, everything is easy and can be brute forced up until +10, which then players have erected a wall of R.io because they can’t be bothered with others who don’t know what to do but like I said there is no incentive to do anything below +10 because players vastly overgear that, and because they haven’t learned how to do M+ properly they can’t join +10s and they can’t learn M+ properly because they can’t experience it at +10 leading to the old argument of :-
- Looking for a fresh employee to a job
- Must have experience
- How do you get an experience if you are not given a chance in the first place?
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what you written is nice in theory but its also completly wrong.
people who are applying to your mythic +10 and hc raids are not casuals you think.
average casual would be to afraid to apply to mythic 0 and normal raids i n fear of toxicity and elitest people.
those who apply , join and “suck” are no others but mythic raiders on their 10th alts on which they barely can play .
but hey since they progressed it on main they firmly belive they are god’s gift to humanity and should be taken anywhere
casuals are perfeckly happy where they are now -aka doing world content,mythic 0 , crafting , WF and lfr.
and about part of “casuals dont learn” - well thats because they dont want to learn - because unlike you they dont treat wow as 2nd job.
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We kind of should stop using subjective words like casual… I see myself as casual but I think people should be pretty happy when I would apply to their +10.
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not if they ask for sencible experience, but asking for things that is not relevant to the content, like curve for a normal raid, or 1000 rio score for a M+6 things like that can be considered elitist.
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It kind of depends on what you define as casual.
A casual can be like you said someone someone perfectly happy with World content mythic 0, crafting, WF and lfr.
But then just like you said
How would they know of said toxicity and elitism if they didn’t try to progress above and beyond what they are doing.
For me when I defined casuals I meant the cutoff between M+10 / AoTC players and non M+10/AoTC players in general.
I do however agree with Psjohly
I used casual to refer to a general term, but maybe it’s my fault as I can’t seem to think of another way to refer to said players.
Raiders get a lot of applications from players who don’t have AoTC, even on their mains and are usually met with the argument of how can I get get AoTC if you don’t let me in, that’s why I find your argument about mythic raiders on alts wrong.
Wow is far from a 2nd job to me, I don’t play that much unless it’s a holiday or im taking a break / day off, but when I do I spam a lot because I quite do enjoy the game, that doesn’t make it my 2nd job, it’s a hobby and a fun activity, you can like football and play football a lot but that doesn’t make it your second job.
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this is not realy true, you can be casual player and even clear mythic raids, if you so want to, heck I raid twice a week, sometimes i am not even online for a few days, and I have still cleared BoD heroic, (not on this char), so casual doesnt automaticly meen someone who do not want to do things.
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I agree lfr and normal should be merged. Normal raids are pretty pointless except for maybe week 1 of release because of the crazy bfa loot system. Enter via solo queue or in a private group.
You are right about addons but the default ui is awful. After all these years there’s very little change you can make to the look and the information is so hard to follow especially with the piles of passive buffs we have these days. I love being able to redo my ui when I get burnout, one of my favourite parts of the game.
This is where you can perfectly label someone as elitist imo, and I’d like to add those who belittle others with lesser things achieved than them in a certain field be it pvp / pve / pet battles or whatever.
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no problems whit that, as long as none can join the private groups, if they do not want that to happen
These people are like, no you can’t have it, because we must have it all.
We casuals cannot do mythics it’s discriminatory, yea, why can;t mythic actually be normal mode.
Stop talking about things that you have no understanding of, and do not affect you.
Even if mythic was made casual friendly then so what? So what now?
In any case, titanforging should be capped at a reasonable ilvl like 15 or 20 max, and the chance should be higher.
Anyway, you might wanna rethink your title, the word elitist at this point is thrown around and it can mean pretty much whatever the op wants it to mean, just like toxicity at this point, i just roll my eyes when i read those two.
This is just a general statement though, not really about the op post overall.
Reading the post overall seems pretty reasonable, but that title is just asking for trouble.
There is a very big middle way of people being professional (or “treat wow as 2nd job”) and people only shooting boars in the open world.
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Idk, I have a little bit of experience in mythic raids, I have ce on Uldir. Ofc that is nothing compared to the likes of Cattiè, but I do like to inform myself about the topics I talk about at least somewhat.
My point was just that I think the current raid progression in terms of difficulty doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Slightly nerfing mythic and merging lfr and normal is only one way to achieve this. But hey, that is why this is a discussion right? I’m sure you can come up with better solutions. Personally, I don’t mind if Mythic stays the same, I really don’t, I saw it more like a compromise for merging lfr and normal.
Also, this has literally nothing to do with discrimination.