Somehow people weren’t batsh*t crazy for farming AP, legiondaries in legion and now essences, which are 10x easier to get are now a problem?
So you didn’t visited the forums in the first year of legion? 
The legendary outrage was 10x larger then now about essences.
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Outrage because of legiondaries were directed at something else - acquisition. Nobody even mentioned alt-friendlieness.
So to sum it up. Legion was not only 10 times more alt-unfriendly, it was also 5x more spec unfriendly is somehow viewed as good expansion.
BfA which is 10x more alt-friendly is somehow bad expansion.
I mean, we have clear improvement here so why people didn’t leave during legion?
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Of course it was a better expansion. It had good story and consistent updates. It was way more alt friendly after the artifact knowledge was removed and the legendary tokens were introduced.
Now for an alt you have to grind AP, Essences and useable Azerite armors so you can clear the same raid for half a year, or for close to 9 months in 8.3.
In the topics about essences is clear complaining about the acquisition of them. That is why players only want to do it 1 time. Or even 0 times when essences come from content they are not doing.
In Legion DID people leave because of legendaries. DID try to come back and left again because of legendaries. I still have some of those in my guild discord chat. Some did return in bfa (some also left again).
For your convenience I have abridged and highlighted parts of the OP where they clearly said a NEED to do the essences (which was what my post was referring to, whether it’s a literal need or not and about how actually it’s a self-imposed need you can simply remove if it’s not working for you)
So next time, before you start suggesting i’m doing stuff i’m not (nowhere in my post did I claim to know what “fun” was or claim to speak for it on behalf of other people so unsure why you flung that clump of mud in my direction) you might want to check the OP thoroughly and consider where my post may have arisen from rather than assuming you know where it came from and making a snotty reply.
My post is making it abundantly clear that if you don’t find something fun DON’T DO IT because there is no NEED to do otherwise. Self imposing limits on yourself that curtail your own fun is idiocy.
my own post makes it clear I think some of the essence obtaining methods are unfun and that’s why I don’t do them myself! I have no idea how you took that “i’m the sole arbiter of fun LOLOLOL” from my post! Presumably because you fixated on the bit you quoted and ignored the rest?
Hahaha no, sorry but you have no idea what are you talking about. Legion did became almost-alt friendly only when we got waking essences introduced. So at the very end. Until then, it was literal garbage.
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If you have reading comprehension disorder, you might miss the point of his post, I get it. Let me spell it out for you: “What I want is […]”, therefore he goes ahead and says that to accomplish what he wants, he “need the damn Essences and at the best level”, and he even explains it as otherwise he ends up being the “one who does less”, which he doesn’t like. So what he wants is not to be able to complete content, but to not end up feeling carried, or whatever “the one who does less” is considered.
You twisted his words from what boils down to “to be able to play the game the way I want, I need to farm essences” to, and I’m quoting you here, “I can’t do X because I don’t have essence Y”, and then proceeded to make a fake argument based on that wrong interpretation.
There’s no need for the personal attack. I looked back over my post to you and admittedly I came off crass which was my bad, but whatever, it’s up to you if you want to continue to play that game and occupy the “high ground”.
I find it ironic considering you attacked me (falsely, I might add, which I suspect you know because you’ve since dropped the topic of “fun” entirely) on grounds I was presuming to infer a subjective thing objectively as if I alone know, yet here you are claiming that I’ve read the OPs post “the wrong way”, when it is littered with subjective, up for interpretation terms that require clarification, so much so you’ve labelled me as potentially having “reading comprehension disorder” (suggestively and passive aggressively i’ll note).
Doesn’t that seem a bit hypocritical to you? “How dare you suggest to know what fun is! Here, let me tell you exactly how this passage should be interpreted the right way (and if u don’t u have reading disorder lol)”?
Anyway, whatever, you do you;
You see, what you say here is:
"What I want is […]”, therefore he goes ahead and says that to accomplish what he wants, he “need the damn Essences and at the best level”,
or: “I want X, therefore I need Y, because reasons relating to Z (not feeling like being carried)”.
And then you say my post was "I can’t do X because I don’t have essence Y”. Which isn’t exactly dissimilar is it? From their post, they make it clear they’re not prepared to do the grind, they don’t want to (cool, it’s up to them), so therefore me taking their initial
“I want X, so I need Y (because of Z).”
Isn’t exactly incorrect for me to infer that
“I can’t do X because I don’t have Y” from that is it? It’s not precise, but it’s not a huge logical leap either. Seeing as they make it clear they feel that essences are needed to stop feeling carried, i’d say they actually clarify the terms that in their opinion, essences are a necessary component for X (that is, doing content without feeling like they’re being carried. Which means my inference is pretty sound. I’ve just simplified it.
I suppose I could be more accurate and change it to
“I cannot do X (without violating Z reason which I don’t want to), because I don’t have Y.” would that make you happier?
I still don’t see how it’s a stretch for me to interpret this. And again, as said in prior post, I made it quite clear that my personal opinion is if something isn’t fun, don’t do it. It seems the issue here is they’re caught between two kinds of unfun (either feeling like a carry or grinding), in which case I can see why “account wide” essences may seem like an answer. But i’d still refer to the fact that the feeling of “being carried” is still a self-imposed thing- there’s no evidence that is the case (and even if being carried by higher ilevel buddies, you lacking essences probably has little to do with being carried anyway versus general ilevel differences of higher friends).
I can’t say they’re wrong to feel that way, i’m just saying; recognise the barrier is self-imposed, and because of that you have the power to remove it or maintain it. I don’t see expecting external agencies (blizz) to act to remove what are self-imposed barriers (which will vary wildly from individual to individual) is a sensible solution, at least in terms of having fun in the game.
Anyway I’ve said my bit and i’d made it clear I went in too gnarly with the snotty comment. I wonder if you’ll do me the same dignity with your “lacking reading comprehension” comment?
There is a reasonable amount of catch up in the game for most aspects, Essences currently still require you to input a lot of effort. Many have complained it’s alt unfriendly this expansion, I personally only bother on my main. My alts are lucky if they have essences at all. However if I was going to main change I would consider it worth the time to do.
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Okay, sorry about that. Ditto though.
Actually, no, it doesn’t seem hypocritical at all. You are actually making a mistake here. You are saying that I am saying that you were presuming to infer a subjective thing objectively. What I am saying is that the OP was not making an objective argument, he was simply stating that he doesn’t feel that essences work for his fun of the game, and he thinks that applies to others as well (it does, he isn’t the only one who has said this). You were trying to construct and apply some kind of measure (completing content, don’t bother saying now that wasn’t what you meant, it will simply be bs if you try that), and then argue that the objective criteria you constructed in place of his argument yourself can be objectively proven as false. In simple terms, you were trying to make an objective argument against an objective criteria, but it wasn’t related to what he was saying. He was talking about a different thing, he was talking about the game feeling like crap because of his perceived need to farm essences to stay on a level where he derives enjoyment from the game.
Thus, when you are trying to come up with some sort of argument that he isn’t right, well… that’s just not gonna cut it. You can make 10 walls of text, and you won’t be able to convince him or anyone else that feels like him that the game is actually fun when they feel it’s not. It simply won’t happen. Your effort is pointless, which would be your prerogative; however, it is not only pointless but risks being inflammatory as well. You may think the essence system is reasonable, but that won’t make him reevaluate his assessment of his own fun and suddenly decide “yeah, this guy is right, I was so stupid, how could I not see that it actually is fun for me”.
I think some sort of catch-up mechanic could work to encourage playing alts. Like reducing the requirements to unlock them.
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The major issue for a lot of people is the acquisition of Essences.
They are a boring grind and are not placed in challenging content at all.
Legendaries were heavily discussed because of the RNG involved and the huge gaps in BiS / Performance metrics given by a certain legendary.
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Legiondaries were also a boring grind. Even more boring than essences.
Aside from pvp essences, rest of them are relatively easy to acquire
The key difference though is that legiondaries, while a grind, could be obtained from almost any content you were doing on your character. BFA essences each come from a specific piece of content, often something you have absolutely no interest at all in participating in.
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In all of the essence topics around, on any forum atm this question hasnt been answered yet:
If essences get easier to acquire / upgrade or made account wide:
Why is it bad for you?
And i would like to hear why because a lot of people so far have claimed that:
1: i dont care about alts
2: returning players dont deserve to be on par with me because i kept on playing all these years (and they wont, coz they arent able to instantly join any 8/8 mythic guild or whatever your progress is in arena / M+ or raiding)
3: all my work is gone and i deserve to be awarded for my work (although it has said before: you were more powerful than any other for weeks or months now)
4: Essences are gear (some claim) yet, they cant be changed to be more friendly to be obtained. Even tho you are all fine with catch up gear like Benthic / Black Empire armor coming
Nothing is lost for you personally if anything about essences gets changed to a point it is more friendly for people who do care about alts or returning to the game.
Just because i dont use a gameplay system or find use for it (essences + alts or any other combo) doesnt mean it cant be implemented.
Well to be honest this past month with the Anniversary +15% reputation bonus buff and two Darkmoon Faire events for their +10% reputation bonus buff, there would’ve been enough time to go from Neutral to Exalted with all factions that have Essences locked behind reputation standings. Realistically a person could get Exalted with only 2 hours played every day for about 1-2 weeks, so I don’t understand what the problem is here.
Also very few looks at your Essences during pug raids, if you say you are a returning player I think many would accept you if you have those Cutting Edge achievements. If you manage to get yourself into one you should be fine to collect the Essence ranks from The Eternal Palace too.
I disagree.
if I’ve made an error, it’s a reasonable one to make. I read in the OP’s post “I can’t do content without feeling like crap because of lack of essences” which I took as a “I don’t have essences, therefore I can’t do this content”.
As I said (look, I did say it) it’s imprecise but it’s reasonable to draw from this, all I have done is simplied it down to that form, given the OPs post made it clear they weren’t prepared to either grind or humour feeling crap, so therefore in simple terms, they won’t do the content without the essences (but they won’t grind the essences). I’m struggling to see this grandiose false structure you’re accusing me of constructing to “gotcha!” OP, particularly given my replies were “It’s either do it, or accept you don’t have to”. Nowhere in that did I “invalidate” their sense of fun, I simply pointed out it’s self-imposed. That is not the same as saying “therefore it’s ridiculous”.
I just think we’re crossing wires big time here. To simplify: (you may want to throw in if you think I’ve got any part of this wrong)
OP: “Essences should be accountbound. I don’t like grinding them, it’s not fun, and I feel like I need them to do content, else I feel like my mates are carrying me, which doesn’t feel good and I don’t like.”
Me: “Essences aren’t needed to do content. The differences between ranks 2 and 3 are quite small and not gamebreaking. Therefore I don’t really see why you feel like you need them to do the content you’re doing, they perform fine for it. If you don’t wanna do them, don’t, you can still pve. I think bote is stupid so I never grind it and I still do pve”
You: “How dare you claim to speak for what is fun and what isn’t fun on behalf of this person? You’re twisting what they say to make out you think their opinion is objectively wrong! Well it isn’t!”
I guess i’m struggling to see exactly how this started? I just can’t see how you took away me attacking their opinion as wrong from my post. Me disagreeing with their perception isn’t the same thing as saying it’s an illegitimate perception to have, or it’s “wrong”. I really don’t think I worded it that strongly.
A buff that is active till January 8th and then is gone for a year.
Doesnt benefit any returning players who might come and join in when 8.3 will arrive somewhere in january or february.
Once again, i fail to see why it cant be changed.
ONLY 2 hours played every day for about 1-2 weeks. which makes 14 hours a week and turns into 28 hours of play over 2 weeks.
New content is there aswell and you wanna do that aswell, lets set aside another 14 hours for that.
If you think A LOT of people are even reaching the threshold of playing around 14 hours a week, you are mistaken.
If you think 14 hours a week is reasonable to do just to grind out boring reputations / honor or whatever else the essence requires… just so you can start playing the game again… than there is no use in this discussion.
No returning player wants to farm stuff for 2 weeks / 28 hours (and more even since some things arent even mentioned in your farm: pvp / dungeons / raids etc)
They want to subscibe and hop into any 8.3 action without feeling left behind because they dont have essences
Or feel obliged to go through all these boring grinds because you do think it is a perfectly fine system.
Why do you think they include a boost to the current max level with expansion releases / pre-orders: to make sure if you wanna come back to the game, you dont have to level up all the way from 0 to 120 or whatever the cap is.
These are the only ones I’ve seen getting a reduction in the future