EU warlock feedback thread

BRING BACK OLD DEMO
Our destro pvp talents got stealth nerfed.

Now all 3 specs are trash in pvp. GG
Proposal: Have Haunt damge scale with Mastery. Then it would not so easily get idle when gear improves.

***

Shard generation:
Simply: Have Drain Life / Drain Soul also generate Soul Shards.

Unstable Affliction is the most potent DoT the warlock has, can be stacked on the same target, and costs Soul Shards. It then serves as a way to focus damage on a single target, which is nice. On the other hand, Agony is the only source for Shards; the warlock DPS then heavily depends on the amount of targets, crippling damage on Single target fights where only one Soul Shard source (and Soul Conduit) is available.

I would suggest to:
1. Agony to have 1/4 the chance to generate a shard compared to now
2. Drain Life to have 1/2 the chance to generate a shard per tick
3. Drain Soul has 3/4 the chance, also 50% higher than Drain Life
4. Writhe in Agony also doubles the chance for Agony
5. When the effect of Haunt ends, it always generates a Soul Shard

Overall effect:
Without talents:
Drain Life ticks about twice as fast as Agony. While channeling Drain Life on a target with Agony, Shard generation rate is 25% faster than now. While not channeling, it is only 25% of the rate it is now.

With talents:
Drain Soul: while channeling, the rate is 75% faster than now.
Agony: while channeling Drain Life, the rate is 50% faster, and without channeling, 50% of the rate it is now.
Haunt: An extra Soul Shard is generated every 16.5 seconds.
Buff Chaos Bolt in PvE

It does terrible damage.
i play as destro and i feel that damage is way too low. other classes with similar ilvl can do around 50-100k more dps without much effort. in pvp its fine. damage is on par with others, and i feel quite tanky. chaos bolt is useless in 1vs1 situations, since you most likely will get interrupted and its damage is too random and costs 2 souls shards. ok, maybe you can pull off one chaos bolt but that will not help much.

i have never seen any warlock on top of dps charts in pve, they are maybe in the middle of charts at best in raids. that leads to question.. why would anyone want warlock in raid, if they can just pick any other dps class and it will do better?
31/10/2016 10:17Posted by Biubiubiu
why would anyone want warlock in raid
Becuase we are tankier then most other dps. Destro has high burst for adds. multi dotting / Cleaving is amazing on some fights, The use of gateway can make a fight that much easier (some fights ofc it's useless). and our damage aint all that bad either tbh. there are plenty of warlocks who top the meters. may i remind you back to SoO where Destruction was Far far beyond any other spec. and affliction on Protectors was pulling some outrageous numbers on heroic. Just cos we are not top every boss right now doesn't mean we aren't/wont or have been.
Demonology damage is fine. Demonology mechanics are not fine.

I have to stand still and cast everything, if i somehow manage to get my entire rotation oerfect without even half a second interruption anywhere in the chain I can fire off Thal'kiel's Consumption with a window of about 1-2 seconds before the first demons despawn.
Doing all that will make it do the same damage that other DPS classes can get by just firing off their artifact skill at random.
If i can stand still for an entire fight(never happens) then i can do pretty good damage but..
One single forced movement or interruption and I have to start my rotation all over again and my dps drops like a rock.

Demonology mechanic is completely unforgiving, if the rotation is messed up you have no chance to recover it and still after all that ramp up time the DPS isnt any better than other DPS classes. Which doesnt make sense.

Demonology needs a mechanic update to handle these issues.

Also visual updates across the board for all 3 specs.
01/11/2016 10:16Posted by Joculari
Demonology damage is fine. Demonology mechanics are not fine.

I have to stand still and cast everything, if i somehow manage to get my entire rotation oerfect without even half a second interruption anywhere in the chain I can fire off Thal'kiel's Consumption with a window of about 1-2 seconds before the first demons despawn.
Doing all that will make it do the same damage that other DPS classes can get by just firing off their artifact skill at random.
If i can stand still for an entire fight(never happens) then i can do pretty good damage but..
One single forced movement or interruption and I have to start my rotation all over again and my dps drops like a rock.

Demonology mechanic is completely unforgiving, if the rotation is messed up you have no chance to recover it and still after all that ramp up time the DPS isnt any better than other DPS classes. Which doesnt make sense.

Demonology needs a mechanic update to handle these issues.

Also visual updates across the board for all 3 specs.


this is why its deemed one of the harder specs to master.

dont forget if you move your demons carry on. its all about planning ahead. for example once you know a fight ul know where the movement comes in just plan accordingly so when you do have to move you are not moving with unempowered demons. also make use of demonic circle now it's on a different row its viable to pick. It is unforgiving, once you master it though the damage is really good and i personally find it really rewarding. although a few extra seconds on my demons would be good.

I think a good fix or the timers would be to have any new set of imps to come out extends the current set by a certain time. so making use of blood lust would increase our burst and reduce our ramp time. and also it would make moving less detrimental to the dps as you give yourself the extra few seconds of movement that would offset the cost of moving.

Also tbh now my team have HC on Faceroll farm, i just ignore some stuff and just stand still on fights like Cenarius, Xavius and even Ursoc i just trail behind with my Demon skin only moving to stay in range.
Affliction:

1) Similarly to the Soul shards, affliction warlocks should have a base amount of Tormented Souls charges. Around 3-4 should be fine, this would help massively with the ramp up. Also there should be a Bad Luck Protection system in torment, that increases the chances of generating one if you are low on charges.

2) Unstable afflictions soul shard return mechanic is completely broken, it doesn't work on a number of boss adds & other dungeon trash. For example Helya's tentacles and the souls Harbaron spawns. However these still proc Wrath of consumption, fix this.

3) Phantom singularity pulls massive amounts of trash, rework this talent to only hit mobs you are in combat with.
30/10/2016 08:01Posted by Archowitz
Proposal: Have Haunt damge scale with Mastery. Then it would not so easily get idle when gear improves.

***

Shard generation:
Simply: Have Drain Life / Drain Soul also generate Soul Shards.

Unstable Affliction is the most potent DoT the warlock has, can be stacked on the same target, and costs Soul Shards. It then serves as a way to focus damage on a single target, which is nice. On the other hand, Agony is the only source for Shards; the warlock DPS then heavily depends on the amount of targets, crippling damage on Single target fights where only one Soul Shard source (and Soul Conduit) is available.

I would suggest to:
1. Agony to have 1/4 the chance to generate a shard compared to now
2. Drain Life to have 1/2 the chance to generate a shard per tick
3. Drain Soul has 3/4 the chance, also 50% higher than Drain Life
4. Writhe in Agony also doubles the chance for Agony
5. When the effect of Haunt ends, it always generates a Soul Shard

Overall effect:
Without talents:
Drain Life ticks about twice as fast as Agony. While channeling Drain Life on a target with Agony, Shard generation rate is 25% faster than now. While not channeling, it is only 25% of the rate it is now.

With talents:
Drain Soul: while channeling, the rate is 75% faster than now.
Agony: while channeling Drain Life, the rate is 50% faster, and without channeling, 50% of the rate it is now.
Haunt: An extra Soul Shard is generated every 16.5 seconds.


Love this, pleas do it.
It's a fair suggestion.
Time to shout into the void I guess...
Spec: destro
It seems we are going to be Chaos mages now, tied to RNG, fine but if that's the case, embrace it! Chaotic damage should be our strength, at the moment it's a weakness.

Secondly, our spells have very little interaction, I've started levelling a fire Mage and by level 15 the rotation already feels more engaging than my level 110 lock. We need more impact when we get things right!

Basically, numbers=OK, play style=dull
01/11/2016 13:37Posted by Sproig
01/11/2016 10:16Posted by Joculari
Demonology damage is fine. Demonology mechanics are not fine.

I have to stand still and cast everything, if i somehow manage to get my entire rotation oerfect without even half a second interruption anywhere in the chain I can fire off Thal'kiel's Consumption with a window of about 1-2 seconds before the first demons despawn.
Doing all that will make it do the same damage that other DPS classes can get by just firing off their artifact skill at random.
If i can stand still for an entire fight(never happens) then i can do pretty good damage but..
One single forced movement or interruption and I have to start my rotation all over again and my dps drops like a rock.

Demonology mechanic is completely unforgiving, if the rotation is messed up you have no chance to recover it and still after all that ramp up time the DPS isnt any better than other DPS classes. Which doesnt make sense.

Demonology needs a mechanic update to handle these issues.

Also visual updates across the board for all 3 specs.


this is why its deemed one of the harder specs to master.

dont forget if you move your demons carry on. its all about planning ahead. for example once you know a fight ul know where the movement comes in just plan accordingly so when you do have to move you are not moving with unempowered demons. also make use of demonic circle now it's on a different row its viable to pick. It is unforgiving, once you master it though the damage is really good and i personally find it really rewarding. although a few extra seconds on my demons would be good.

I think a good fix or the timers would be to have any new set of imps to come out extends the current set by a certain time. so making use of blood lust would increase our burst and reduce our ramp time. and also it would make moving less detrimental to the dps as you give yourself the extra few seconds of movement that would offset the cost of moving.

Also tbh now my team have HC on Faceroll farm, i just ignore some stuff and just stand still on fights like Cenarius, Xavius and even Ursoc i just trail behind with my Demon skin only moving to stay in range.


Personally I dont mind it being hard to master but thats also the issue. Because when everything aligns and you get a perfect rotation going etc the dps output isnt any different than other dps classes who do the same without having that ramp up or need for perfect rotations.

Its like we have to perform twice as hard to put out the same numbers rather than mastering a playstyle and bringing hell.

More drawbacks and things working against us without any actual benefit at the end to balance it out.

A bad example is I have to cast 2 demonbolt -> hand of gul'dan -> demonic empowerment -> demonbolt -> call dreadstalkers -> demonic empowerment -> implosion and the enemy mob will be either dead or near death.
I turn around and there stands a paladin or mage or any other dps class hitting a mob with one or two casts to get the same effect as i did with 8 casts.
02/11/2016 06:31Posted by Joculari
A bad example is I have to cast 2 demonbolt -> hand of gul'dan -> demonic empowerment -> demonbolt -> call dreadstalkers -> demonic empowerment -> implosion and the enemy mob will be either dead or near death.
I turn around and there stands a paladin or mage or any other dps class hitting a mob with one or two casts to get the same effect as i did with 8 casts.


Yes but when you pull 5-8 mobs at a time and get the same results as killing them all in that same time you will releaise it isnt all that bad. when out and about doing WQ i just doom everything in sight i have an objective for. wait for them all to come close hand and implosion. all dead and im half way done with a WQ

Then compare that to the time it takes a mage or a paladin to do the same you will find you come out on top and clear it faster.
02/11/2016 06:31Posted by Joculari
Personally I dont mind it being hard to master but thats also the issue. Because when everything aligns and you get a perfect rotation going etc the dps output isnt any different than other dps classes who do the same without having that ramp up or need for perfect rotations.


that is the nature of Ramp though. on a single target fight i will generally beat a mage and will definitely beat a hunter. the only thing that trumps us in pure ST is Spriest with STM. but thats fine im glad Spriest are getting their time in the sun for a while. they have the mobility but if they cant use it they are weaker then us. So minimize your movement as part of mastering the class and close that gap ul find you have no trouble beating more mobile players. as we are ramp class our dps is actually quite forgiving as we just hold a nice level of damage all the time. so if you fall off for a few seconds it won't take long to get back to where you was. if a bursty fire mage !@#$s up on their burst somehow then they are screwed until those Cds come back again.
Fundamental design flaw in Pet AI
I've been racking my brain over the inconsistency of legion strike actually doing damage to bosses and have found the likely culprit.

It seems that bosses hitbox's {max range you can hit them from.}, and the max range they can be hit at are two separate things. Nythendra as example.
In 4:47 your felguard will use legion strike around 120-130 times.
http://i.imgur.com/GU5Jsfp.png
This is a Nythendra, only 13 of the casts were actually cast within range to hit her. It took me awhile to really figure this out and I guess at the moment the only solution is to use the move command. I don't use Demo on any other boss so I can't speak for the rest.
Here is the boss target dummy in the Warlock Class Hall.
http://i.imgur.com/Xvc9BpW.png
All hit, all did damage, because the hitbox is small enough that the attack registers inside the damage box.
I'll end with that I could be wrong but this is the only conclusion I can come up with.
02/11/2016 22:48Posted by Nëkò
Fundamental design flaw in Pet AI
I've been racking my brain over the inconsistency of legion strike actually doing damage to bosses and have found the likely culprit.

It seems that bosses hitbox's {max range you can hit them from.}, and the max range they can be hit at are two separate things. Nythendra as example.
In 4:47 your felguard will use legion strike around 120-130 times.
http://i.imgur.com/GU5Jsfp.png
This is a Nythendra, only 13 of the casts were actually cast within range to hit her. It took me awhile to really figure this out and I guess at the moment the only solution is to use the move command. I don't use Demo on any other boss so I can't speak for the rest.
Here is the boss target dummy in the Warlock Class Hall.
http://i.imgur.com/Xvc9BpW.png
All hit, all did damage, because the hitbox is small enough that the attack registers inside the damage box.
I'll end with that I could be wrong but this is the only conclusion I can come up with.


You clearly don't get it, if your pet isn't riding on top of nythendra whacking away at her head it just isn't immersive to have him actually hit with his abilities.

Nice catch, hadn't realized this was the case.
#MakeWarlockGeatAgain2016 seriously guys ... this class is desperate for serious rework or boost ... ignored left in the corner and broken ... Warlock usefull state dying faster than democrat chance to stop republicans ... Since all calls for rework and this ton of RNG is ignored on this thread. I dont think dev. even care or read this thread make at least useful mastery less rng my gear is really decend but RNG make my DPS go from 220 - 370k are u serious, why u make such unreliable DPS source ??? Destro & Affli is total distrater now ... too RNG, low base DPS, Mastery, poor legendary effects, low mobility (raids need ton of mobility unless u wanna poke warlocks out of the raids for being useless), unstable resource income, etc ... striping of defensive in 7.1 ... only build which gave solid ramp burst and dps is demo ... seriously this need to be changed and fast ...
im remaining optimistic and holding out for some good stuff in 7.1.5
Please take a look into destro mastery (too much rng with crit, pet sac, mastery).
My spec: Demonology (more or less since MoP)
Focusing: PvP / Arena 2v2 and 3v3
Experience: Gladiator/2.5k+ in casual seasons since wotlk with all specs
My current specs: 2/2/2/1/1/2/1 and 2/2/2/1/1/2/3

First off I would like to say good job to Blizzard when it comes to the design of Legion Demonology. With the exception of the implosionspec wich was a broken and annoying facerollmechanic that I was happy to see get nerfed in 7.1.
Demonology in 7.1 is a spec with depth, diversity and a high skillcap that requires alot of thought, practice and knowledge in order to succeed. It's currently untested at high ratings for me since I started my Legion lock very late, but I do believe that this spec has the potential to pull the furthest of all lock specs right now if played at its peak with the right comp and players. I favor demonology over affliction in particular because I feel I got more gamechanging tools rather than being a onedimensional dotbot of a squishy targetdummy relying on the qualifications of a amazing healer in order to succeed, more than on my own. Affliction never was much fun in my eyes and I'd surely hate if it became the breadwinner onestopshop spec for locks throughout another expansion like it usually has in the past. Simply because the spec has a low skillcap in my opinion, and offers litte of the diversity and exciting gameplay that would make it interesting and rewarding enough to last in long term. You did a amazing job with demonology design so far so I'd love to see Blizzard aknowledging that and carrying the spec further through this expansion.

Ps: Just don't ever make implosion viable in pvp again, ever!

Weaknesses/things I'd like to adress:

1. Mobility: We are the least mobile class ingame, in a world of Usain Bolts, wich is fine enough but when this is the case I think the spec deserves some kind of baseline or talent snare so players outplayed and about to die from the mistakes they made can't just seek safety behind a pillar being literally uncatchable until they decide to enter the game again, when their cooldowns are back up. There is little to nothing a lock can do about this vs good players, and it makes a hard spec to master and play unrewarding. How about shadowflame adding a snare? Or felstorm? Or legion strike? The latter would be the strongest, maybe even overpowered or maybe it's more than fair since there are alot of ways of countering snares. But this is a legitimate concern in my opinion. We are sitting ducks in a game of hypermobile classes and specs that can, if they chose to, wait behind pillars until dampening is high enough before they decide to try again if they feel overwhelmed.

2. Interrupts vs cast requirements: Triple stuns, AE stuns, saps, kicks, pummels, shears, you name it. They're there and they're part of the game. Fine, but since demonology revolves so much around casting and not being interrupted these things hurts us more than they actually should in the current state of the game. Ad the fact that mobility also counters casts and you got the perfect recipe for making locks inefficient. My suggestion is as follows: bake demonic empowerment into the spec or make it an instant cast, or make call dreadstalkers instant cast baseline, or make Thal'kiel's instant.

3. Mana cost: I do oom a little too easily, and I do find myself forced to lifetap at low hp alot just because I get oom and can't play my class. This needs a rework, how about 50% less manacost overall? Our tankiness got nerfed, how about we get some more mana in return.

4. Clunky pets: Axe toss currently requires line of sight at the time I cast the ability in order for my pet to finish the command. If not the pet will stall for a moment doing nothing. If I was chasing the target this increases the gap between target and felguard if I clicked the ability at the wrong time. If I am trying to cc a mistweaver that do most of their healing behind pillars, or any other pillarhumping healer, I have to literally spam the button when I anticipate them moving in los. And despite of that, and the time and focus lost because of it, the axetoss might still fail to land due to latency.
How about: One click of axetoss makes the pet seek line of sight of the intended target and then cast the axetoss, instead of this precision/latencybattle we got going right now? Would be awesome!

5. Demonic Gateway: Too easy to interrupt in the opening of the game. Give it a 15 minute cooldown and make it an instant cast, or remove it from baseline/make it a talent. Seems unneccessary that melee and mobile ranged classes can rush in and lock your cast in the opener of the game. I've never liked this ability.

6. Demon Skin: Should be baseline for all warlock specs. We are squishy and immobile, make demon skin baseline and make us choose between Dark Pact and Demonic Circle for survival.

7. Burning Rush: I get it, we're supposed to give hp to get something, but I think that kind of thinking got outdated with the current state of lock mobility.

8. Pet too squishy: Pet is indeed still too squishy vs alot of classes. Please don't ever make it a viable strat to pve a npc in order to beat the lock. It's unfun and annoying.

9. Doom: How about we get a soulshard when doom is dispelled?

Last general issue: AE stuns need to go from the game. At least in PvP.