Exchange roll the bones for

Classes Rogue
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First of all, yeah, this isolated place that is the EU forums may not be a great place to throw ideas since it feels the contrary to an ‘evergreen’ place on what attention from Blizzard is regarded, but anyway…

I have one idea to replace RtB with something more interesting, and this is adding minor CDs that are some form of some of the existing buffs.

First of all, from all the existing buffs, what would be the more interesting to get as active CDs?

In my view, I see that Ruthless precision could be forgotten about since I see that they added extra crit chance when you hit something with Between the Eyes against the objective, so that’s in part what gave me the idea and I can see that being a good replacement for the Ruthless precision buff. Maybe repurpose the ability to not depend on critting and by extense, to the crit buff?

On another part, I see that some buffs like Grand Melee could be transformed into a minor survivability CD, giving some leech for a short duration with a short CD, and maybe increased parry chance and small damage reduction (5-10% maybe) for the duration.

True bearing could be fused with Skull and crossbones into a minor CD, increasing Restless blades’s effect and increasing the chance of Sinister strike to proc. This could be paired with a change on Sinister strike to give it a bad luck protection similar to that of the fire mage and help the flow of the spec by miles.

Broadside could become the Recklessness of the Outlaw rogue, by becoming a minor CD that doubles combo point generation for a short duration and increases damage done with combo point generators by 20 or even 30%.

Buried treasure… Let’s forget about it.

I feel that manageable minor CDs would be more satisfactory to play with than random buffs, and it would end the dependance on getting something good in order to perform well, since it would be on the player’s hands to do so.

Obviously Restless blades would not reduce these cooldowns, there has to be some things that aren’t affected by it in order for these to have some value since you can’t rely on recovering that many CDs constantly and having strong CDs indefinitely. I would even say that these all could have some form of shared CD of maybe 20 seconds so players can’t overlap one with another and have to decide what to choose.

I don’t know, this is just an idea, I just want for Roll the bones to not drag the playstyle that much. Another ‘easy’ solution would be for RtB to always give two buffs and rework Buried treasure, this way RtB could even have a one minute CD and be even better than in it’s current iteration, but obviously carrying some problematic interactions that pigeonholes various aspects of the spec on the buffs.

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Just revert outlaw to combat and keep between the eyes, 90% of the rogue community = instantly happy.

1 Like
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Sure, because you represent that 90% don’t you?
Combat had barely any identity, it was just rogue with two swords and good AoE.

Roll the bones would be fine as a CD of double buffs get made baseline, with a chance at 4 or 6 buffs. The spec is at a really good place atm and doesn’t need major reworks.

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Think I speak for most rogue players who had to make the transition from combat to outlaw, sure in terms of what it did. Outlaw gave us a less scripted burst window…but in an expansion where nobody else has a RNG burst window, I fail to see how its viable for anything but keystones and cleave encounters.

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I came here because I just thought of an awesome rework for Roll the Bones. Personally I love the ability, and it is something that always makes me yearn for playing Outlaw. Though balancing it has always been the issue. So here is my idea, MAKE IT PASSIVE, WITH A POTENTIAL USE EFFECT.

So here’s how it works:

Roll the Bones: Your auto-attacks have a chance to grant you one of the buff effects for 24 seconds. You could still gain additional buffs even if you have other buffs active.

Let me elaborate further. You could accumulate buff effects and even stack them. So let’s say you get Grand Melee, and still have 10 seconds left on it. You could still get Grand Melee, but instead it will give you a new Grand Melee buff that lasts 24 seconds, and for 10 seconds (what’s left of the first), you will have 110% increased attack speed. And ofc you could get other buffs, and therefore making your rotation more dynamic.

Now for the added USE effect. The use effect will extend your current Roll the Bones buffs depending on the Combo Points used and will also empower their effectiveness by 10%. There is a catch however, and that is that you can’t extend nor empower already empowered buffs. So for example, if I extend the duration of a Grand Melee using the active effect of Roll the Bones, I won’t be able to extend the duration of that particular buff.

It would be nice to see a visual effect for what buffs you currently have active, and make them turn red when you empower them.

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On paper it sounds really interesting. This may be still rng, but give you more control over it. And I like an idea to visualise what exact type of buff(s) you have active (ex. crossed swords over a head, a skull over it, red glow on character, dancing daggers around character and so on).

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Outlaw isn’t about burst, it’s one of the least bursty classes in the game; it’s tooled entirely for high sustained DPS. It does great at that job and is perfectly viable in all PvE content.

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You keep telling yourself that :wink:

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Glad to know you don’t have a counterargument.

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dont need to have a counter arguement when I can just go look at things like Warcraft logs and see your opinion be invalidated instead. :man_shrugging: a spec doesnt function when it only functions in one bracket of content.

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Oh, do provide your evidence then if you’re so confident in it. Because so far it sounds like you don’t actually understand how Outlaw works and are just whining that you preferred a spec that no longer exists.

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ enjoy only being relevant in fights with persistently having multiple targets by all means and nothing else. Or you can go look at the MDI :man_shrugging: outside of pushing super high keys and bosses like Hivemind I don’t see why you would want to play outlaw, if you like vigorously re-rolling for your “burst” then good for you

but its stupid and literally the only class who is left to function in such a crude way where you can genuinley roll and get bottle necked into being energy starved just guarantee you get some form of buffs, it would be like trying to say its fine if a DH was to use netherwalk and instead get blur cause “its dictated by RNG.” also pvp outlaw representation on ladder says hi too.

You’re welcome to tell me how this scuffed RNG fiesta of a class is better than building up to your burst and atleast being promised a form of burst, instead of vigorously re-rolling buffs and praying, no changes their making in SL is going to fix this hot garbage either.

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Weren’t even confident enough in your response to make it a proper reply? A generic warcraft logs link is not evidence lol

You can take a quick look through every raid fight for Rogues and the only one which is exclusively assass in the top ten is Maut. Also, MDI means absolutely nothing to the main game; they get to pick literally perfect gear. They’re min maxxers to hell and back, their results mean nothing to the greater playerbase.

And again, you clearly don’t understand the current spec at all.
It. Is. Not. Burst. It is sustained damage. You can easily remove the need to reroll by going Vision of Perfection & Loaded Dice and still be competitive in DPS.
You will start at the bottom, because it doesn’t have burst. It climbs up as the fight goes on because burst specs hit like wet noodles once their burst is over, and ends even.
I don’t give a sh*t about Outlaw in PvP, I don’t play PvP unless it’s necessary for PvE essences. So, I won’t contest any points you’ll make about that, but claiming Outlaw is dead in PvE outside of AoE is stupid as.

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