Because it’s true, they are a bigger threat to the Alliance than the crushed Legion, the dormant Scourge, or N’Zoth. That’s not excessive, that’s stating a fact. Hence why you might as well aknowledge from a meta perspective that they are indeed the greatest threat to the Alliance. Especially since no other faction caused destruction the likes of the Burning of Teldrassil.
Been here a while. Might be one of the most veteran around this place.
And these toxicity levels are kind of reaching the record breaking point.
1 Like
Nonsense. It was much more toxic one year ago during the War of Thorns and the Burning of Teldrassil, anyone should honestly admit that.
To be honest I can’t understand why people do that to start with.
Is it, because it is considered edgy ? Cool ?
I like Anduin and Baine relationship.
They are friends. What’s the problem ?
Surely we can find many stories about people who fought in different sides and were friends.
one that comes in my mind North and South, Tv serie from 1985:
I liked Thrall relationship with Taretha and Jaina.
In fact this five characters are among my favourites.
I think it’s just a section of the Horde community.
Players that like war, because “This is Warcraft”, tend to hate, characters as Anduin, Thrall, Baine and Jaina or anyone that interacts with the other faction as Saurfang.
That’s my opinion.
Cheers.
1 Like
The problem is that Baine’s very existence gets in the way of
- The New Scourge wannabes
- People with an axe to grind against the Alliance
- Memes
- Horde Warcrime Denialists and Alliance Warcrime exaggerators
- Peace (as in he wants peace but many people do not)
1 Like
I mean, Anduin played chess with Wrathion. This act of Anduin becoming friend with another man clearly means that he loves him /s.
The problem usually comes when said “friendship” becomes detrimental for the faction either one of them is supposed to lead. And this goes for both (although Baine is more frequent as of lately).
Let alone the portrayal said friendship has in game or in the novels.
There are ways to show such without it being cringe inducing.
Want a good portrayal of friendship across factions? Try Tyrathan Khort and Voljin.
You can have emotional moments punctually. Overuse them, and the audience starts rolling their eyes or screaming “Grow a pair already”.
2 Likes
Way to bring out the broad brush.
It’s not as if undermining the Horde war effort, excusing the deaths of his own people, and taking arms only when the wellbeing of certain Alliance characters is at stake, have anything to do with the dislike people have with him.
Wonder why Voljin, who also started a rebellion, or Cairne, who challenged the Warchief rule too, aren’t as disliked as Baine…
2 Likes
Well there was a scene where in North and South series, where the North character is captured by the rebels and imprisoned.
He than lives a nightmare, in the South prison.
Abused and tortured, till his friend from the South comes and beats up the prison director and free his friend.
He than proceeds to return him to the North border.
Was that treason ?
Of course.
But war isn’t something like chess.
What is right ?
What is wrong ?
What is Honorable ?
What is considered dishonourable ?
Is Honor in war something only fouls can believe in ?
When being pragmatic, becomes straight out villainy ?
When fighting for survival becomes fighting for conquest ?
When fighting for conquest, becomes fighting for extermination or eradication ?
When friendship becomes treason ?
Which faction is right, which faction is wrong ?
Does the fact, that the character of the South army, is fighting for the “wrong” side of the war, makes him a war criminal ?
War is very complicated, in my opinion.
Cheers.
2 Likes
Saurfang keeps stealing the limelight! How am I supposed to compete with 3, nay possibly four cinematics?! I can barely deal with the current crisis of the now in time! I’ll deal with the Warcrime of Darkshore/Teldrassil when I am Warchief and we are not fighting for our very lives!
Dead
Dead
Alive
AKA convenient lightning rod for anti-Alliance/peace sentiments.
When they were alive, they were about as popular as they are now.
Being dead isn’t really an argument when both make an appearance in this current expansion.
You can turn a blind eye to the facts, or think some conspiranoid theory about Sylvanas Fanboys unjustly hating on Baine (well, I know you specifically are trolling but I mean the broad “Baine supporter” player), but fact is that Baines portrayal has granted him lots of dislike amongst Horde players.
And arguing how such is unreasonable at this point is bordering on delusion.
You mean people didn’t complain that Vol’jin was a useless Warchief who just sat on his buttocks for 2 years?
Common post: Baine is the worst! Taurajo!
Also common post: Sylvanas is defending the Horde!
Laughs in ghost Cairne is getting lambasted as a Baine cheerleader now, and Vol’jin is mocked for letting himself get tricked into giving us Sylvanas as Warchief.
Exactly. In Chess you have the very simple differentiation between the two sides, in War, you don’t. You have ‘Good’ people on the ‘Bad side’ and ‘Bad’ people on the ‘Good side’, Which in fairness has always been the case. That’s what makes it interesting, How far is your character willing to go, before ‘loyalty’ is replaced with ‘morality’, How far is a war when you fight back against oppression, a change from being a Freedom Fighter, to a Terrorist.
Its the complexity that makes it fun, and that we can explore it through our characters in a relatively ‘safe’ environment, by Safe I mean very few countries are actually -in a War- at the moment, and by extension nor are we as WoW Players.
1 Like
No. They complained about writers having him do so. We knew he was active, as it was handwaved that he took an active role. Portrayal and narrative had him out of the spotlight and brought him in only to kill him and further what’s come to be one of the worst faction war stories they’ve ever had.
Contrary to Baine, Voljin didn’t have the few moments under the spotlight throwing a negative light upon his character. Baine kind of did.
2 Likes
I personally hate both characters. Anduin mostly as a character, Baine as a leader character.
Anduin is an anachronism. His talk of peace and love doesn’t really fit the world we got to know and that he grew up in. His personal experience doesn’t support his ideas that peace with the whole Horde could ever be a viable option, even if there are some people within that he might have peace with.
But much worse… his character is dependent on everyone else following his visions to be relevant at all. So they do. Hardened veterans, leaders of centuries… and they follow Anduin’s moral vision because… erm, you can’t stop progress and children tell the truth, I guess? I can’t express how much I hate that. And that’s why I hate his character as a character.
And Baine? Baine is Mister too little, too late. The act he chose as his rebellion against Sylvanas was frankly pathetic. Yes, it makes sense that he had moral objections, no, it doesn’t really make sense that this was the straw that broke the camels back. And doing it secretly, when he is leader of one of the Horde’s races, instead of just openly standing against Sylvanas just seems weak. He doesn’t choose to stand against her, he chooses to do a little, stupid act of defiance that he tries to keep hidden.
But that would be tolerable, if he hadn’t pulled that same stunt before with Garrosh. Garrosh allied with the Grimtotem and killed his father. The poison may have been an accident, the decision to make it a duel to the death certainly was not. But to add insult to injury, Garrosh knew perfectly well that the Grimmtotem were taking over Thunderbluff and he chose to do nothing. Yes, Baine didn’t ask him, since he didn’t know if he could trust him, but Garrosh knew the Tauren leadership needed help, and denied it.
And what does Baine do? Follow Garrosh. The killer of his father who showed that the Horde certainly didn’t have the Taurens’ back under his leadership. He left it to others to defy him and waited for a rebel leader to follow, all the while sending his Tauren to fight and die in battles he disagreed with. Bah.
That doesn’t make him a badly written character per se, but it does make me hate him as a leader character. And considering the Tauren are just accepting that, it makes the whole people look weak. There aren’t enough Tauren characters to make him just one voice of many, and indeed, just like with Anduin, the ones that are there, seem to hold him in high regard… because.
I wouldn’t miss both of them for one second, if they were gone, and the story would be better, if Anduin wasn’t there to twist the character motivations around him.
5 Likes
I’m not arguing about something as nebulous as the concept of treason.
I’m arguing about the kind of image Baine is projecting at players.
You can have treasonous characters with relatable, understandable or likeable motives.
But so far, the reasons given to force players to like Baine have simply backfired into hating him more with each try.
At least from lots of peoples point of view.
He puts morality above reason when it’s not sensible doing so.
He refrains or even punishes natural emotional responses when he dislikes them, but is willing to risk everyone and everything when he feels like doing such.
He masks his passiveness against his factions enemies, with peacefulness, to the point he is borderline acting stupid. But that doesn’t stop him from taking action against those on HIS side when he feels like it.
He is constantly tagging behind better men that are shown willing to take risks and face problems openly.
And most importantly, he is constantly shown as being more willing to side with his factions enemies, or trust them more, than the ones that fight alongside him.
There is no way you can signal positive traits out of someone that decides Taurajo was a valid military target, but had reticence attacking the two military outposts that planned said raid. Or preaching about how detrimental someone is for the faction, while undermining the Horde war effort and causing even more deaths because of it.
Or rolling over exposing the belly when things turn south, arguing for negotiations at the worst timing possible.
Treason was never an issue. I’d take being treasonous alongside Voljin or Cairne any day. At least they do so thinking about the faction first and foremost.
2 Likes
state of game and the generly really badly recieved story has alot to do with it msot likly. But teh forum never shining example of friendliness and such either.
Oh my god, I figured it out…
We have been contesting, theorizing… even FIGHTING of the idea that Tauren Rogues never existed before in WoW when it has actually been staring us in the face all this time.
Baine, by trying to be ‘subtle’ has been hinting on the new Tauren class coming in the next expansion!
4 Likes
To add something to my estimation of Baine: I guess always looking for someone else to be the hero could be an interesting character flaw in a young leader. If the writers themselves see it as a flaw and put in the work to build a character arc to overcome it. But I don’t see any acknowledgement in the game that this is what he is doing. That makes me doubt that they are just going for character growth here.
3 Likes
Who was the Warchief in charge, when Camp Taraujo happened ?
Garrosh Hellscream.
Who was the Warchief in charge, when he decided to return Jaina’s undead brother ?
Sylvanas Windrunner.
One is known as a Evil Warchief. The fact he was always meant to be a villain is stated by one of the developers.
The other will see … maybe, she will say one day, that Baine’s actions were expected since that’s what was she planned all along.
It seems having bad Evil Warchiefs that make the Alliance military, go berserk mode, doesn’t help his situation either.
I wonder what would happen if Camp Taraujo had happened while Thrall was the Warchief, or Vol’Jin was nominated instead of Garrosh ?
My opinion:
- Both of them would had prevented it.
Notice such events only take place during mad warchiefs rule. - Cairne would had acted, since now there is no silly Mak’Gora, with Evil Warchief Garrosh.
- Baine would had been helped as the Tauren deserved, thus preventing him from asking anything to the Alliance, since he trusted Thrall and Vol’Jin.
“War Effort”
Under the likes of Garrosh Hellscream right …
Desperate attitude for a desperate time under another evil Warchief rule sadly …
Cheers.
1 Like