Well, I didn’t direct that comment towards you. I’m 24, so I did watch the movies in the chronological order, and not in the release order, so maybe that’s why, to me, it’s more clear, that Obi Wan had trauma in part 4, because the first time, I saw part 4, was shortly after I saw order 66 in part 3. I’m very sure of it. Though I agree, it was more in the focus of the Disney TV series. However, obviously his PTSD was very important, because in that show he’s the protagonist, while Star Wars part 4 was about Luke Skywalker mainly…
Now I think the way Blizzard showed Anduin seems natural based on what he experienced. Also, he’s not even weak, he’s a fighter too. He literally jumped down the ship to fight the Nerubians, and in the trailer he pointed his sword towards Thrall. I’m not sure, what people expected Anduin Wrynn to behave like. Maybe they should watch Batman, if they wanted Anduin to become some sort of super hero out of nowhere. Sure, stoic warlords should also be in wow, as they always have been, but that’s just not Anduin Wrynn’s character.
And a looot of people dislike that show. Seems an apt comparison to the Anduin situation to me, much more fitting than trying to interpret it into the original trilogy that wasn’t explicit on that point at all. Obi-wan certainly wasn’t liked because of his PTSD. Arguably not even in spite of it, since I’m not sure it was supposed to be a thing at all. So I don’t think it helps your side of the discussion here.
Yes. Which is why I’d assume that most people that don’t like Anduin’s PTSD arc would be happier with less Anduin in general. I certainly would be. This isn’t about a realistic character, it is about an entertaining one (which bantering Obi-wan certainly was, by the way).
Every good story also has very profound, deep, heartfelt moments, and the way Obi-Wan acted, he certainly had PTSD in part 4. I think people back then were just not viewing this as negatively as now, because they didn’t have the same controversial, societal disputes, as we do now, so they could watch an emotional scene, take it for what it is, and not be angry about some detail on social media after. There was also this whole hippie-movement in the 70ies, where people thought it was a good thing to show and talk about emotions. Different times I think.
That’s why I brought it up: If Blizzard’s war within trailer was released many years in the past, I think the reception would be way, way different than now, and people wouldn’t complain about the same stuff. It’s just my opinion/theory though, and can’t really back it up.
Well, he’s staring with fearful widened eyes at the wall, while explaining to Luke, what happened to his father. He also pauses sometimes, and seems lost in his thoughts.
I think wow has definitely taken a lot of inspiration from Star Wars. If you think about it, Arthas Menethil is basically Anakin Skywalker Tirion Fordring is like Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anduin Wrynn reminds me a bit of Luke Skywalker as the hope of the alliance. The Recruitment quest of the Lightforged Draenei, and also Anduin’s Journey witg Faerin Lothar in Hallowfall both have parallels to Luke’s experience with Yoda in part 5
…I’m sorry being sad and regretful while talking about bad stuff from your past doesn’t really constitute PTSD. If that’s what you got from that scene alone, I’d suggest you were projecting.
Sure, but you’d have to see that that undermines your point in bringing it up, don’t you? If we don’t agree that PTSD was depicted here at all, and as obvious at that, it’s hardly a persuasive example to show us that it was more accepted as a story element in the past than it is now.
The Kenobi show was a poop show. Another bait and switch. Reva and kid Leia was the focus of the show. Turned sidekick in their own show.
Some thing that a weak broken leader makes them more appealing. It does not. They still have duties and obligations to their people that are looking to them for guidance and leadership.
Garrosh Hellscream had his own shortcomings. Like being too small and weak to follow his father as a child. But he never stopped trying to do things for his people. For the Horde. This is something that he was arguing with Voljin about at Domination Point in Pandaria.
In case you have not noticed. The WORLD of Warcraft is a dangerous place. With races and organisations trying to survive.
Yes, but Garrosh is supposed to be a different character than Anduin Wrynn. Warcraft can have Garrosh’s and Anduin’s at the same time. Anduin is not a bad character, just because you want more characters like garrosh. Does that make sense?
You do not understand the point I made.
Overchoming challenges - adversities - hardships. The growth they experience insipte of such things is what is appealing.
Talanji did not find a corner to cry in even though her father literally died in her arms and there was some strange mojo connecting her to Bwonsamedi.
Lorthermar Theron did not find a corner to cry in once he learned that the Blood Elves were kicked out of Dalaran some imprisoned others killed.
Leaders take actions - give guidance and leadership - a rallying point for others.
Anduin Wrynn once done this when facing the Legion. He also led the Alliance to war during Battle for Azeroth. Now becauase of a little bit of domination magic that other Alliance and Horde leaders were under. He has a mental breakdown in a dark cave and mother Faerin has to lead him out of it.
Even after Teldrassil burned and Saurfang cheap shot Malfurion in the back. Tyrande and Malfurion led the Night Elf people in offensives against the Horde in Darkshore.
Larger than WoW it is the same tropes that people have seen since The Last Jedi 2017 the Luke Skywalker treatment.
Tear down the male so he can never outshine the female.
High King and Guardian of azeorth don’t really mean anything anymore.
I understand you on an emotional level. I’m also not happy with the overall narrative direction. But I just try to separate what I think is fine, and what I’m disappointed with.
And yes, a reason is that the story right now just does not appeal to male psychology, if that makes sense. The gameplay does obviously though, because we’re just fighting things constantly, but the lore and the marketing does not at all. I’m more interested in the story of the older expansions. I haven’t even done most of the war within sidequests. I tried, but they’re all just incredibly lame for me personally.
Now, if this game was Stardew Valley I wouldn’t complain, as the story usually matches the target audience, but with wow it’s weird, because the gameplay and the marketing/story appeal to different demographics of people in a contradicting way. Not saying that there aren’t exceptions, but I’m talking about the rule.
I’m not really claiming stuff is “objectively” bad, but a lot of the content in terms of story, etc. does not really appeal to me in a way, it easily could, given the world building. That’s all
My Little Pony Friendship is Magic. The target demographic is female children. But some adult men known as Bronies enjoy the content for what it is.
A lot of male franchises and content for boys, similar to the Bronies the girls that are into said franchise and content enjoy it for what it is.
Gaming will always be vast majority males. Despite the propaganda of 50% female population.
Those that play WoW enjoyed it for what it is. Yes there were lots of complaints. Justifiably or now. But DEI…if you look at it from a Market research perspective. Is detrimental to the content itself. Surgent Studios is another company that has died, going down the DEI and ESG path. Similar to Volition with their Saints Row Reboot 2022.
Female Rambo. Which is what Alleria is being pushed as. Does not work. The Masculine is the new Feminine approach. Does not work for anybody. Those who THINK they know what females want. End up like The Marvels - Madame Webb - She Hulk tv show.
Fighting is just part of the game. Gone are the days of Mists of Pandaria: Why do we fight? When the answer is simple: Just because.
Story will always be important to WoW and any MMO.
However when you mishandle the setting - universe - characters. Then this creates the most dangerous thing to ANY game. Apathy. You see once people genuinely stop caring. Then it does not matter if you improve. No atonement can be made and redemption is forever out of your reach. Once gone they are gone for good.
Like DEI games that lose 92% of their playerbase within a week.
Shattered Legacies is an example of ruining a character. As it removed agency from Sylvannas. Yes she is a bad person. But she always owned her choices.
However with activists there is this trope. That female villains can not exist - there will be extenuating circumstances that justify - condone - erase their past acts and villainy. But with WoW this does not work.
Making content unrecogniseable to the fans and those that are invested is also a bad thing. Dragonflight was heavily pushing LGBT stuff. The War Within is heavily pushing weak males and a WORLD of girl bosses and strong independent females that don’t need any males.
Agenda becomes the priority. Gameplay and everything else are secondary and tertiary etc… goals.
So the quality of story. That in fairness has been lacking for years now. Gets significantly worse. Like the terrible way Gilneans was just handed back Gilneas and they trying to make the Scarlet Crusade relevant again.
Many people are preferring older content to the slop that passes for “modern” writing.
I imagine most people don’t have a problem with a character suffering from the effects of trauma. The problem with this setting, though, is that there’s far more interesting characters who endured far worse things only to be unceremoniously cut down because of a few missteps and having their hand forced out of necessity to survive. Then there’s characters who have done terrible things that have walked away without ever meaningfully being punished for them. Which, again, makes it hard to invest in the story.
I think there’s plenty of room for a character such as Anduin in the story who desires peace - granted, we already had that in the form of Jaina. Yet at this point Anduin has up and vanished for…five years? That’s a pretty long time, especially for humans. It’d be nice to see more contempt from the people he is set to rule over. More acknowledgement that running away wasn’t the correct decision.
If you look at google trends, the peak of each expansion after Shadowlands has been getting smaller and smaller, which is not a great sign. It might be linked to the way, Blizzard tries to market wow.
Shadowlands trailer: Extremely epic, serious, and you know something’s really cool about to happen this expansion. Though… It didn’t effectively, but the marketing for shadowlands was extremely good.
Dragonflight Trailer: For who is this? A darkspear troll and a dwarf dragonriding next to eachother happily?? What?
The War Within Trailer: It misses the cool-effect, which expansions like Shadowlands, Legion, WoD, etc. had for their trailers. I guess in the high-society among the newly inserted CEOs and corporates, the trailer was better received.
There’s a mass delusion across many fantasy settings these days that there can be no meaningful conflict or disagreements. Speaking as a role-player, the best role-play I had in this game stemmed from the faction war and sense of wariness surrounding that.
My Blood Elf, for instance, wasn’t pleased with the idea of working with Orcs or Forsaken but did so as a necessity to ensure the future of his people and homeland. It was a cool vibe - much cooler than the infantile ‘lets be fwends111111’ storytelling that now plagues every other fantasy setting.
In all honesty the only reason I came back to WoW after a lengthy break is due to raiding and how poor the rest of the industry is at the moment. TESO is great in terms of player housing but the combat leaves a lot to be desired. FFXIV ditched the fantasy vibes in favour of pandering to degenerates and added all sorts of modern day/cyberpunk slop to appeal to that crowd. Lost Ark and Blue Protocol were hijacked and compromised by Amazon and the list goes on.
You don’t even have to be RP’er than that, I don’t get how can people defend the Anduin babysitting and complete de-responsibilization, not only is it lame as hell, but also, holy crap get out of your bubble, we are talking about what’s happening in Azeroth, if it was written a bit decently and logically, the Alliance would crumble altogether because its leader went “boohoo my feefees I got MC’d I feel bad” and ran away" and his name would be pitied at best and shamed at worst.
But the Leader of the Alliance is Turalyon. I don’t think Anduin is still King, or is he? Pretty sure Turalyon is the king as of now. And this is the dude, who has been on the spacecrusader xenedar ship slaughtering demons for a millenium, so: The lore is here, the world building is here, but the focus of what story Blizzard decided to focus on is LAME, and I do not blame that on how Anduin is written. I blame that on their choice to put him in the spotlight so long.
The War Within trailer did not help their cause.
Games studios are trying to normalise DEI characters. Faerin looking over the shoulder. Once you pause it at that moment you genuinely do not know if it is a Male or Female character. Despite what you are told.
It is one of those: Do not believe your lying eyes. Moments.
Battle for Azeroth trailer. Was clear there is a war on so the Alliance and Horde have to rise to the challenge and kick the butts of the opposing faction or try to.
Market research is important. But there is so much evidence out there that DEI does not sell. People across many industries and fandoms reject DEI as reflected in the falling sales numbers before and after they push some content.
Activists in positions of power will always do activism over anything else. It’s like having a teacher that is a genuine communist. You want them to teach just what is on the curriculum but you do know that they will try to create future communists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0E794D05d0
Few are as open about their intentions and agenda as the woman in the video.
However the term “Vanity Project” is now applicable to the finished product. Simply put making a good game or compelling story was never the goal.
Look at Dragon Age Veilguard. Characters are actively describing themselves as “non binary” even though such terminology does not exist in the game. Also only few people unironically use such terms.
Then the chest scars - to “represent” post op trans people with double masectomy.
It is a vanity project because activists do not care if the content sells, they do not care for alienating and or driving away paying customers - content consumers - player base and fandoms. They are almost always hostile to the playerbase.
There are larger things at work. But it does effect the finished product. Such things are not added accidentally.
Tirion Fordring is like Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anduin Wrynn reminds me a bit of Luke Skywalker as the hope of the alliance. The Recruitment quest of the Lightforged Draenei, and also Anduin’s Journey witg Faerin Lothar in Hallowfall both have parallels to Luke’s experience with Yoda in part 5
