Farming old content low drop mounts is just gambling

Community General Discussion
1

Now hear me out. Farming old raids for mounts is pretty much the same as sitting in front of a slot machine and pulling a lever after inserting coins.

See… there is no skill involved in pulling a lever of a slot machine - you also have no real influence on the result. It’s literally just pulling a lever.
Now - farming old content raids - thanks to the damage multiplayer, even a comic Donald can storm through any old raid and 1, sometimes 2-shot any boss with any random abilities. There is no skill involved whatsoever. You are in a god mode. You can’t really die maybe except some gimmick happening but most of the time you are literally breezing through to the boss. And the only cost is… well, your time - hardcore farmers have multiple characters and they have to go to the raid, walk through it, port out, rinse and repeat - minutes spent add up. You have no real influence on the drop except stacking the tries, i.e. going with more and more characters every week. This is not a skill, nor a challenge. It’s a virtual slot machine in-game yet you are not aware of it.

Let’s be honest - when I see these wowhead comments or forum posts bragging that someone farmed a mount for years with 2k tries or whatnot, I feel pity and sadness - that individual is wasting time, literally. OCD, gambling behavior

Farming old content mounts is not only gambling - it’s the loneliest activity in this game - you are alone in a dungeon, only with your army of alts.

Any other activity requires at least some brain activity - even farming herbs or ore, requires you to look at minimap, fight NPCs, sometimes other players, and you make gold with it. PvP - is like a card game, you need plan, strategy, flawless execution, PvE is similar to tetris - proper movement and planning is necessary, not to mention interaction with other players.

Meanwhile, mount collectors sit there, pulling levers of slot machines, wasting time and most importantly, not having fun
How do I know? Have you ever read a comment of a mount collector saying they are having fun? They are always filled with frustration and anger that it didn’t drop for a thousandth time. I’m not sure if comparison to drug addicts is in place but frankly it seems like something unhealthy.

And it’s all to have a couple of meaningless items in a collection. Mounts they will never really use later on. Mounts nobody really sees without armory inspection or some feat of strength…

I don’t think mount collectors are a big community and they don’t really annoy anyone but every year when Big Love Rocket is up for grabs, they crawl out of their holes and cry how they can never get that mount. I’ve read about people farming it on character cap…

Why would you spend RL money to mostly waste time, without having fun… There are many interesting activities in this game from raids, PvP to pet battles, yet some people choose to maniacally pursue 0,1% drop mounts.

Frankly, I think it’d be better to farm gold caps and wait for BMAH listings than farm certain mounts.

I, myself, occasionally ran some raids for mounts but never more than 1 every other week and I already felt the activity was grueling in nature. There is nothing interesting in one shotting everything on your way, while the only thing you think about is how to speed the running process.

And Blizzard directly or indirectly encourages this toxic behavior by, e.g. lowering drop rate of end boss mythic mounts after an expac is over etc. They milk the fact some people can’t resist the urge to gamble their time.

I’d ask if there is anyone having fun while farming these mounts but I’m sure some people would boldly state they are having the time of their life.

It’s not fun, it’s not engaging, it’s basically gambling… This aspect of the game should be more lax - increase drop rates, or removed entirely to save people’s sanity.

I don’t really care, just had this realization today, reading another Big Love Rocket thread. I just wanted to share and maybe ask for your opinions on the matter.

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wow is a waste of time but ok…this thread got me thinking ;[ rude

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You’re right I fear.

I think the whole basis of MMORPG is mechanics over content; it is never possible to produce content as fast as it can be consumed, so game mechanics replaces that.

Reputation, currency, random loot drops, renown, borrowed power, WQ is all mechanics designed to keep playing the game and re-use content that in an ideal scenario would be played once.

Whereas the other mechanics aren’t gambling - for example rep grind you know if you do x quests you get y rep - random loot clearly is. Whereas that’s not a huge problem if the drop rates are reasonable or some kind of chance modifier is built in (e.g. for every failed attempt your chance goes up, or later in an expansion your chance becomes greater), it certainly is hardcore gambling for things like rare mounts.

For example I remember Torghast where early on your much needed legendary powers didn’t drop, but after a play break I returned to the expansion and the drop rate was 100%.

So the question is what’s the psychology of being willing to commit maybe hundreds of hours - days of your life - gambling on a rare mount and is it worth it?

My only experience of this was that I really wanted the Baron Rivendare deathcharger to go with my shadow priest. After doing a few runs I decided to commit to 100 runs. With a level 70 mage being able to use blink and invisibility along with speed potions, I got each run down to 4 mins 45 seconds. Well, 100 runs and nothing. Did I enjoy it? Well, it was sort of satisfying in completing a repeated very automatic task well……but no, it was a real waste of time.

I gave up though, as I just felt several hours of my time was as much as I was willing to give. Folks who farm for weeks, months whatever - yeah I think it’s a problem. Maybe they don’t have that moment of clarity and reason where they go - enough’ s enough.

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I’ve thought about this, too. In my view, why is gambling with your time any different than gambling with your money? At least you can get money back!

I know of someone who commits to collecting EVERYTHING (All The Things or something), and it honestly does not sound like he enjoys it. Rather, he feels he has farmed for too long to quit now, so he continues spending 1000s of hours per year grinding these pretty pixels.

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To be honest, coming from a mount collector that has 696 unique mounts according to Simplearmory, yes you are right.

It’s a sort of OCD / degenerate behaviour, but at the end of the day, everything you do in the game, is pretty much degenerate behaviour. I find farming mounts / mogs / toys more worth it, because they atleast stick through patches / expansions, while gear gets pretty much worthless by the time next season arrives, even if you are pretty much BIS geared.

That being said, I personally love the thrill / excitement when farming mounts.It’s such a cool feeling for me - way better than farming M+19 SBG to get 2.5k rio for example.

I don’t find this toxic, but a win-win after all. Someone, willing to commit to kill mythic Jailer / mythic Sylvanas when it was current, just deserves the mount. That’s the indicator someone is really good because he got it. Being lowered to 1% and being kept, invalidates FOMO and gives other players a chance to get it. At the end of the day, even if you farm Invincible and it takes you 200 attempts, truth is, your time spent is probably lower versus someone actually progressing on it when it was current content.

At the end of the day, you gotta give Blizz some credit. DF brought alot of mounts, that are pretty much guaranteed drops, and are obtained only by effort. which is opposite of SL that had tons of rare drops, but once again, you have to admit that all of them had a normal drop rate (3% on average), which is very noticable. Not a single mount (except Famu, which had like 0.5%) took me more than 40 attempts, which is not so bad.

Mounts like Rustfeather, Harvester, Soundless pre-nerf etc. are not ok though. In my eyes, everything above 1% is ok.

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Just like gamblers love pulling that lever.

Anyway, I think it’d better to just remove those end game raid mounts, like Keystone mounts are unavailble after a season ends, instead of giving low chance for people to farm it and waste their lives.

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Everything in wow is gambling / pulling that lever. When you loot Mythic Raz, it’s a lever you’re gonna get a piece of gear. When you loot a M+ chest, it’s a lever you’re gonna get a piece of gear. When you loot your vault, it’s a lever you’re gonna get the item you need / want.

You’re making it out as an addiction, which I can understand, but you have to understand, that every single thing in the game pretty much works like that. You personally have a bias / opinion against such people like me, and I personally can’t understand people that farmed COS in M+ for 100+ times, to get the ring that did what, extra 100 dps back in SL where Legion M+ TW was a thing.

Truth is, the ones farming gear / min-maxing, are often way more obsessive and obnoxious, than us mount farmers.

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nah, pulling levers doesn’t take skill, killing mythic raza definitely takes skill. it’s completely different.
and no - I wouldn’t farm the same dungeon 100 times - this is addiction and gambling too but at least the journey is more interesting and requires some SKILL. Sorry but completing a 15+ ior 19+ key takes gaming skills. Farming old mounts = zero skill - here is the key difference. You are doing whataboutism here

You seem to miss the fact the soul and core of this game is a challenge to defeat opponents - be it PVE or PVP or pet battles. Farming old mounts poses zero challenge - it’s a game without THE game.

Transmog collecting is sort of on the same basis as mounts but the drop rates are more reasonable in most cases (so it’s less unhealthy and toxic - I got all transmog I ever wanted in a couple of rare runs on 1 character - so nothing extraordinarily toxic or time consuming) except extreme examples like tusks of mannoroth - people farming tusks were on the same level as rare mount collectors. Gambling.

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The mounts ties in to a much greater issue which is the RNG part of this game in general. As you’ve correctly said, it is just gambling and has nothing to do with skill whatsoever.

However, what is then the alternative to farming legacy cosmetic items?
• You could make it currency based instead but that doesn’t make the gameplay itself more enjoyable.
• You could scale up these dungeons and increase drop rates, but that comes with its own problems such as difficulties finding people for a lot of the content with this shrinking playerbase.
• You could have a combination of the two, integrating them into the timewalking events, seems like the best solution to me.

I leveled up a bit of an alt army myself during the pre patch due to how insanely easy it was to level then. And I just came out of farming Midnight, took me 73 runs in total which I think is about the average, and I sure as hell wasn’t planning to run it that many weeks so alts were the solution.

I would never initiate a farm like this if it was just collecting for the sake of it, but if it is for a specific mog then it is a different story. As I dislike a lot of the current content, collecting cosmetics is one of the things I can actually enjoy in this game, although endless farms are of course less enjoyable for obvious reasons.

My advice to anyone thinking about initiating a farm like this is to not expect the content to provide the entertainment for you, because although the first time you see the content it might be enjoyable, that quickly ends when it becomes a chore. Turn on some podcast, or audiobook to stimulate you intellectually, that way you get to still use your brain while flying through the dungeon/raid on autopilot. Good conversations with friends can also work similarly.

It’s good for anything similar in life really, like long car rides which otherwise also are dreadfully dull. And just like I don’t think the solution is to remove the destination where you want to drive your car, I do not think the solution is to remove these mounts just so that people will not farm them. It’s up to each individual how they want to spend their time.

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You didn’t understand what I tried to say and you refuse to see the wider picture, because you’re living in your world, and you’re forcing your opinion thinking it’s the only correct one.

I never said killing mythic Raz or completing a high M+ doesn’t take skill. I just said, that looting gear from these activities, is a gamble aswell. Majority of raiders / high-end players, raid purely to get gear, not just to kill the boss and get nothing from it. If that wasn’t the case, people would kill the boss, and be done & dusted till the next raid arrives, but clearly this isn’t the case, is it? People kill the same boss 15-20 times, to get the items from it. How is it any different than me killing Lich King to get Invincible?

You don’t have the right to say that. To some, core game is playing lore, meaning they sit in Goldshire all day. Do I find this stupid? Yes I do. Do I have the right to call these people stupid and lecture them about the core of the game? Absolutely not.

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Frankly - roleplaying is way above mount collecting in terms of … “fun” - I’m pretty sure roleplayers are having fun most of the time - it’s comparable to a theater or school plays - it’s just creative, fun leisure… one of my points was that mount collecting’s fun levels are at the bottom/

I know the harsh truth behind hardcore mount collecting might be tough to swallow but try to see the observer’s perspective more clearly.

PS: I agree that people kill bosses for the loot but the game limits the number of times you can do this per week in case of raids, or limits your keystone possibilities one way or the other. And many people actually don’t care about loot - they get their kills and move on. It might be a minority, though. And again - raids are fun at reasonable levels.

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I agree with the OP and I believe there’s one small fix they can add to make the whole experience more bearable, because right now it’s exactly like a slot machine, you might aswell never get lucky for years on end, and that’s just not fun gameplay.

The potential fix would be to add a currency that only the boss with the mount drops. Every boss would have a unique currency, for example the LK on ICC25m hc would drop ‘Coin/shard/signet of Icecrown’. You can only get one each week and can buy Invincible with it, but the cost would be 50 coins.

That way it’s still a grind but at least you’re working towards something, and that way you know you’ll eventually get it. And ofc it can still drop the normal way.

And who are we kidding? Aside from the latest Mythic raid’s mount people don’t tend to notice what other people are flying or riding on that much. There’s so many mounts in game of all different flavors most people tend to ride on the one they prefer. ‘standing out’ and flexing is just silly these days. Back in the very early days yeah but now it’s mostly personal.

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I remember Ashes of Alar were a big flex. And that’s the only memorable mount for me that I ever envied. Later on, so many mounts happened I would never be impressed. Well, the proto drakes for undying etc might only be something to show off and maybe gladiator mounts? Rare raid mounts are pleb-level tbh.

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Look, I agreed with some of your points as said in the OG post, but you’re not a god with a stick, doing a tierlist of what’s fun and what isn’t. If that’s your subjective opinion, that’s 100% ok. But don’t here saying how something is more fun over another thing - I personally take farming Shackled Ur’zul on 10 toons over sitting in Goldshire all day.

And what difference does it make with farming Invincible for example? Some people are obsessed about farming VOTI, and they do so on 5-6 toons per week, to get the trinket for example.

Something subjective again. I personally can’t stand raiding, and for me, it’s one of the most stressfull and unfun activities the game has to offer.

As said - you made some valid points, but stop making something entirely subjective, into objective. You’re not in a place to decide certain things.

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A little bit of that is to be ready for next tier though, since the gear will help you clear/progress faster.

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Also - current gear is only viable for the season is actually a good thing - you don’t have to farm the same items forever, just for a beat and move on

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But with gear/bis gear you can actually play the game, with nice mounts you cant even fight so… idk i never understood this perspective

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To make more gambling comparisons, raiding is like blackjack and mount farming is like slot machines - i will take blackjack over slot machines any day haha

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No just no stop asking for things to be removed .You do not have to farm it but let others do what they enjoy its players like you who wreck the game for others due to your lack of ablitiy to control your urges and feeling’s.

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they remove gladiator mounts or KSM mounts every season and not too many people cry - raid mounts should get the same treatment - get it in the current season or forget.

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