Farseer Hero Talents: A hybrid-focused Elemental and Restoration Shaman take

Being a Shaman player at heart for almost 2 decades straight now, with a handful of low ranked Cutting Edges, most of which I was raid leading. I’ve always strived to make the Hybrid build of the Shaman viable, generally known as the Battle Shaman, even going back to Mists of Pandaria Challenge Modes, healing as Elemental. Last two expansions brought new highs to the build in the form of Igneous Potential Restoration Shaman in Battle for Azeroth (used widely on Mythic Jaina) and Chains of Devastation Kyrian/Venthyr Elemental or Enhancement Shaman in Shadowlands (completely underutilized by the community unfortunately). The Shadowlands build was probably the most broken thing I’ve played in the game, and I’ve tried Death Knights on the original Wrath of the Lich King’s release (yes, we’re talking this level of power). I had really high expectations for the new Talent Trees at the end of Shadowlands, more choices means wider variations of builds after all, only to get disappointed when I first saw them, as they were single-dimensional. I had the same expectations for the new Hero Talents, only to be even more disappointed. Farseer Hero Talents made for the perfect excuse to conjure something remotely close to what I was wishing for, but that was not the case. Even if we ignore my Battle Shaman aspirations, the talents were uninspired and barely interesting in gameplay, lacking overall synergy, only hitting on the fantasy and nothing else, with the last node arguably being the most problematic node of all…

I’ve heard the take that as Elemental and Restoration are now the only specs that bring no raid utility, the Farseer Hero Talents should, to which I disagree, as it would render them a mandatory pick. Instead, why not make the Farseers Throughput Kings - taking both healing and damage into consideration - jacks of all trades, but masters of none playstyle? This in itself is some form of “raid utility” that could be explored further, for lets say when a fight requires “half” a healer more or “half” a healer less, making both Offensive Restoration and Defensive Elemental valid choices. This is a great way to solve a problem that’s been creeping in the class patch by patch, while allowing for player choice on the other 2 remaining Hero Talent choices for pure damage or healing throughput builds.

I know that during Dragonflight there has been an active effort on reducing off-healing, but I think the defensive creep of the game is mostly to blame, not the off-healing one. Also, the Farseer could be the single niche build in the game that incorporates a variation of both damage and healing done, something we barely see with Discipline priest nowadays. It should never compete with the best damage dealers or healers, even when the stars align in RNG, but it could be up there on both, for either specialization, solving the issue of Elemental and Restoration raid utility in its own way, via sheer numbers. An example of this is the choice of bringing an Augmentation Evoker right now for Keystones, as it brings more defensive utility to the table than any other damage dealer, but your overall dps is going to suffer in return. Now if my “nudge” in this direction falls on deaf ears, I’d be more than happy to just give some inspiration regarding our capstone node.

I’ve compiled all of my thoughts and suggestions into a spreadsheet, to improve readability, but posting links is not allowed here, so I’m going with a wall of text. Verifications about me are also included in the sheet, which is hard to post here. Should you want to see my original work with improved comprehension compared to a wall of text, you can contact me on discord via the name: Gambunt

Notes: All across the tree you’ll find referencies of Progenitor’s Call and Paragon. Progenitor’s Call is the Capstone talent and Paragon is the name of its effect. Having said that, lets move on to the talents.

FARSEER KEYSTONE
Call of the Ancestors: Primordial Wave (Elemental) or Unleash Life (Restoration) calls an Ancestor to your side for 6 seconds. Whenever you cast a healing or damaging spell, the Ancestor will cast a similar spell. Totemic Projection relocates all of your active Ancestors too and its cooldown is reduced to 5 seconds.

Notes: Added an interaction with Totemic Projection, as the location of your Ancestors now matters. Keep in mind that Totemic Projection is off the GCD. The tuning knob for this entire build is basically what “a similar spell” means. Modifying its power can balance the Farseer entirely.

FARSEER ROW 1
Choice Node: Latent Wisdom and Ancient Fellowship

  • Latent Wisdom: Your Ancestors’ spells are 20% more powerful.
  • Ancient Fellowship: Ancestors have a 15% chance to call another Ancestor when they expire or are consumed.

Notes: Just added “or are consumed”, to include the effect of Progenitor’s Call on Ancient Fellowship. During Paragon, Latent Wisdom makes your duplicated spells stronger, as they are counted as Ancestor spells, thus making your new throughput profile even stronger. Ancient Fellowship can increase the overall duration of the effect, thus making your new throughput profile longer. The choice when it comes to the Capstone talent is: Do you want a stronger output profile or a longer one?

Choice Node: Heed My Call and Routine Communication

  • Heed My Call: Ancestors last an additional 2 seconds.
  • Routine Communication: Lava Burst casts have an 8% chance to call an Ancestor (Elemental). Riptide has a 15% chance to call an Ancestor (Restoration).

Notes: No changes were made to this node. During Paragon, both Heed my Call and Routine Communication can increase the overall duration of the effect.

  • Primordial Adaptability: When an Ancestor expires or is consumed, you gain 1% Versatility for 15 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. Successive effects do not increase duration.

Notes: A simple semi-offensive / semi-defensive node that shouldn’t generally be tracked by players. This gives Elemental slightly more survivability on higher Keystones, while also increasing a useful attribute for Restoration, hopefully not its best one, going forward. During Paragon, calling an Ancestor instantly consumes it, causing you to immediately get the extra Versatility.

FARSEER ROW 2
Offering from Beyond: When an Ancestor is called, they reduce the cooldown of Progenitor’s Call by 10 seconds.

Notes: Reducing the cooldown of Fire or Storm Elemental barely affects the throughput of Elemental Shaman, and reducing the cooldown of Riptide is quite boring. This actually affects throughput for both specs in a more interactive manner.

Chains of Devastation: While having an active Ancestor, or during Paragon, casting Chain Heal makes your next Chain Lightning instant cast. Casting Chain Lightning makes your next Chain Heal instant cast. The instant Chain Heal of Chains of Devastation costs no mana (Elemental). The instant Chain Lightning of Chains of Devastation deals 50% increased damage (Restoration).

Notes: Inspired by the Shadowlands legendary of the same name. This also alleviates the necessity to go Fire build on Elemental. During Paragon, Chains of Devastation can create both an offensive and a defensive cooldown for both Elemental and Restoration, paired with Vesper’s Patronage.

Ancestral Relocation: Spiritwalker’s Grace is replaced with Spiritwalker’s Relocation for 15 seconds after it is cast.

  • Spiritwalker’s Relocation: Teleport to your closest Ancestor within 60 yards.

Notes: A more appropriate mobility enhancement that’s easy to use with a high skill-cap, as it can prove extremely valuable on the right hands. It’s still tied to Spiritwalker’s Grace that both Elemental and Restoration most often pick, turning Totemic Projection into a possible Blink spell, as long as you have an active Ancestor. It also refrains from adding an extra button to press. During Paragon, Ancestral Relocation has no effect. I didn’t want to make Totemic Relocation a teleport spell by itself, as it doesn’t fit the theme. Now if you consider yourself the “Ancestor” during Paragon, you might argue that Totemic Projection should relocate yourself too, but I wouldn’t go down that road. A teleport every 1.5-2 minutes is enough mobility for a class supposed to be stationary.

FARSEER ROW 3
Choice Node: Nature Caress and Earthen Grace

  • Natural Caress: When an Ancestor is called, gain a shield that absorb 5% of your maximum health for 30 sec, up to 20% of your maximum health. Using Progenitor’s Call, grants you the maximum amount of Nature’s Caress.

  • Earthen Grace: Reduce all damage taken by 3%, increased by another 3% for each active Ancestor. During Paragon, reduce all damage taken by 15% instead.

Note: A more thematic choice for a defensive node for the class with the least amount of defensive capabilities - Hunter, the other squishy class, got some really nice defensive nodes for example. During Paragon, this also makes the Shaman tankier, as you might need to stand a little closer to enemies or allies, should you want to maximize Vesper’s Patronage.

Vesper’s Patronage: When an Ancestor is called, they gain Ancestral Patronage. Casting Earthquake relocates all active Ancestors to target location (Elemental). Casting Healing Rain relocates all active Ancestors to target location (Restoration).

  • Ancestral Patronage: Your next damaging spell or ability will cause the Ancestor to radiate Nature damage to up to 6 enemies nearby, and your next healing spell will heal up to 6 allies nearby.

Note: Inspired by Vesper Totem, the Kyrian ability of Shamans during Shadowlands. After all, these are Elemental - Restoration talents, so some hybrid abilities are bound to exist. Works extremely well with Chains of Devastation, allowing for a quick relocation of your Ancestor via Totemic Projection, into a quick cast of Chain Heal and Chain Lightning (in any order) to maximize throughput. The Earthquake and Healing Rain interactions are just quality of life changes to remove the need for Totemic Relocation.

Final Calling: When an Ancestor expires, they cast Elemental Blast on a nearby enemy (Elemental). When an Ancestor expires, they cast Hydrobubble on a nearby injured ally (Restoration).

  • Hydrobubble: Surrounds your target in a protective water bubble for 10 seconds. The shield absorbs incoming damage, but the absorb amount decays fully over its duration.

Notes: Just added “or is consumed”, to include the effect of Progenitor’s Call. During Paragon, calling an Ancestor instantly consumes it, causing Final Calling to proc. This means that as Elemental you start your cooldown window with at least one buff from Elemental Blast and as Restoration you start with at least one big shield on someone, on demand.

FARSEER CAPSTONE
Progenitor’s Call: Instant, 3 minute cooldown. Call an Ancestor to your side for 6 seconds and consume every active Ancestor, ascending into the Paragon state. The duration of this effect is increased by twice the duration amount of all consumed Ancestors. During Paragon, whenever an Ancestor is called, you gain its duration added as the duration of Paragon, consuming the Ancestor thereafter.

  • Paragon: Whenever you cast a healing or damaging spell, two similar spells will be cast. These spells are considered Ancestor spells. Ancestral Patronage remains active on you for every damaging or healing spell or ability, and its radius is doubled.

Notes: Completely redesigned this node - arguably the most problematic one - to make it more synergistic with the rest of the talents. This gives Elemental a much needed bursty damage profile, adding an offensive cooldown every 2-2.5 minutes, based on Offering from Beyond, while also allowing for a substantial amount of off-healing during that period. Similarly, Restoration gains an extra cooldown every 1.5-2 minutes that can be used in an offensive fashion, if necessary. This still keeps the RNG aspect of the Farseer at heart with its duration and cooldown being dynamic, but adds more reliability on your cooldown window. Skilled players will track active Ancestors for every moment, maximizing the potential of Progenitor’s Call. Remember that calling an Ancestor during Paragon gives you all benefits of both calling and consuming an Ancestor immediately. Also, Keep in mind that maximizing the throughput of this ability might require you to get a bit closer to your enemies or allies, due to Vesper’s Patronage, but you’re more durable for its duration, thanks to either Nature’s Caress or Earthen Grace. The theoretical way to maximize throughput would be to go into melee and spam Chain Heal into Chain Lightning, for both specs. Adding Ancestral Guidance to the mix, only makes this better. The base duration of this is 12 seconds, increased to 16 seconds if Heed my Call is selected. With one active Ancestor, e.g. casting Unleash Life on the previous global, this becomes a maximum 23-31 second duration ability. Calling Ancestors during Paragon only further increases the duration by 6-8 seconds though, consuming them immediately, which procs Final Calling and can proc Ancient Fellowship for an even longer duration. Same as Ascendance, RNG modifiers can be added here, to minimize edge cases, when reaching above 30-40% uptime. The intention here is for Progenitor’s Call to be a big button to press once in a while to dish out offensive attacks, while keeping your allies healthy, making both Offensive Restoration and Defensive Elemental valid choices of raid utility.

Again, should you want to see my original work with improved readability compared to a wall of text, you can contact me on discord via the name: Gambunt

Thanks for reading, your feedback will be much appreciated.

4 Likes

I was quite let down by the Farseer talents. Considering it was the first Shaman tree to be shown I was really hoping for more.

I have to admit, the Vesper’s Patronage/Progenitor’s Call are WAY more interesting from your idea.

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Farseer was a let down so badly WoWhead joked about it seeing far from the bench. This really helps promote more interesting gameplay it’d be nice to see blizz take some inspiration from these ideas.

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You sir have done your homework. All i can say is that I really like it. Much, much more fun than what we have now. I disagree with some of the talents you suggested. But not enough to disregard your suggestions.

I think that overall they are great. And should it go live, I would most definitely consider playing it.

///// My opinion /////

Unleash life is not taken in M+. And PW in the case of elemental fixes builds to fire builds.

What I would do is simply merge Latent Wisdom and Ancient Fellowship and Heed My Call and Routine Communication into Call of the Ancestors:.

Just make Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Riptide, Healing Surge, Healing Wave and Chain Heal have an XXX chance of summoning an ancestor. And make it a big chance to summon one. And for more than 6 seconds. Something along the lines of 10 or 12s.

And cap the max ancestors to 4. Then tune the damage/healing of that ancestor a bit lower to compensate. But essentially, the proc chance should be so that you always have 2 or 3 ancestors there.

I simply love it. So much that I might even consider something similar as our RShaman mastery.

However, I would expand Chain Heal to include Healing Surge and Healing Wave as well. And Chain Lightning to include Lightning Bolt. Simply put, its not nice to set particular builds. If we ever get a Rework, or a tier set that does not focus on Chain Heal we would not find this useful.

Also, our PvP Buddies will find Healing Surge more useful in Arenas. Cant leave them behind.

In fact, should this talent be expanded to ST spells, I like this SO MUCH (and it would be so OP) that it would essentially replace the capstone talent of Progenitor’s Call:.

However, Elemental shamans might have an issue. Because unless you are weaving healing-damage-healing-damage you wont get much value of this talent. Especially because “instant cast” does not mean it doesn’t use a GCD.

But if you place it as a capstone talent, I dont see any reason to split its effect between elemental and resto. In the case of Elemental it would simply reduce the cast time of your next spell instead. With the idea of making Elemental Blast almost instant cast. Depending on how many ancestors you got.

The only thing that I might have an issue with is with Spiritwalkers Relocation. I just dont think shamans need a blink. Maybe a simple each ancestor reduces the CD of spirit walkers grace. Something like that.

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I do not really play shaman but i like the idea however no idea about shaman . good job

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I just came up of an idea of a new capstone talent for RShaman that replaces Progenitor’s Call:.

Make the ancestors cast an OPPOSITE spell you cast. You heal, ancestor DPS. You DPS, ancestors heal.

That would be rad.

Been basically playing solely Shaman since TBC, with mostly no alts. I’m clocking close to 600 days played on a single character. No homework was required :slight_smile:

I tried to be surgical on things I changed, this is just what Blizzard announced and I wanted to be as close to the original as possible. All the talents I redesigned are the mostly bland ones. I’m not a fan of Unleash Life or Primordial Wave being forced into the tree either. I’ve heard suggestions of an extra button, which I don’t think that it’s ideal, even with 2 charges to give you more burst and Ancestor procs giving 1 charge, instead of calling it, to cast them on demand. The default tree has 2 talents that directly name Lava Burst and I reduced that to just 1, adding one for Chain Lightning, reducing overall requirement for a Fire build for Elemental, but yes, it can definitely be improved. The point is to start a discussion as Shaman players, brainstorm and cook something amazing.

Again, stayed true to what has already been designed in the past with a Shadowlands legendary of the same name with said talent, Chains of Devastation. Nevertheless, your idea does sound great for an even greater push away from the Fire build.

Keep in mind that Chains of Devastation was the Restoration PvP legendary and it was somewhat used in arena, albeit not that much.

That’s my idea for Shaman utility. You have 3 healers and barely make the healing checks? One of your Elemental Shamans can go Farseer and assist you. You have 4 healers and are struggling on the damage checks? One of your Resto Shamans can go Farseer and still help. It basically means turning Restoration 75% healer and 40% damage dealer or Elemental 75% damage dealer and 40% healer. Overall the sum of both dps and hps will be higher than anyone in the raid (in my example 115% of the average throughput of a raider), maybe not Blood DKs, but you won’t be first in any meter. I’ve been doing that for years and it works wonders the moment the “Elemental = Damage” or “Restoration = Healing” mindset changes. That’s why the title says “A hybrid-focused Elemental and Restoration Shaman take”.

I’m open to ideas on that, I just heavily disliked the extra 4 seconds of Spiritwalker’s Grace as a talent - quite better in PvP with the inclusion of Spiritwalker’s Aegis, useless in PvE. Almost every other mobility node in revealed Hero Talents was better.

Appreciate your feedback :heart:

Really cool idea, although we have no idea yet what “cast a similar spell” means. We can assume that damage spell = random duplicated damage spell and healing spell = random duplicated healing spell. If that’s the case, reversing them would indeed be rad, but I can see Elemental Shamans with the “zuz zug” mindset being frustrated about.

It’s also really easy to balance the entire tree, as you can simply add a X% reduction in throughput of all “similar spells cast”, until you hit the numbers you want to, or even limit spells cast to low throughput spells, like Lightning Bolt. The lack of knowledge of what that phrase means works as a solid tuning knob Blizzard has access too and honestly, if they get the talents, gameplay and the spell synergy right, “cast a similar spell” could be anything.

Haven’t clocked in as many hours as you. But you took the time to think of something. So kudos to you. Your awesome !

This is not the approach I take to the new Hero Talents in general. All things aside, Shaman REALLY needs a deep rework of the talent trees. Especially Resto and Elemental.

And because I acknowledge this fact, these Hero Talents are balanced around a faulty talent tree. So for me, the way blizzard presented things is faulty by design. FIRST they need to rework our talents. And THEN get to work on the Hero Talents.

That is my general opinion. So I would not stick to the “theme” blizzard presented from the start.

I have played Elemental, but im not an Elemental expert. But from what I heard is the following: What ties these talents to the Fire build has nothing to do with Lava Burst.

It has to do with using Primordial Wave to summon the ancestors. Fire Builds use PW. Lightning Builds dont.

Unless Blizzard reworks their talent tree. Which is my comment from above. But because we did not get any info on that, the best we can suggest is that the talent tree remains the same.

As for RShaman which I main. Well this is an obvious problem talent wise.

And from a design perspective Unleash Life is a mistake. We have so many modifiers that adding an extra one makes our spells OMEGA OP if you stack them all. So to balance that out, you need to reduce the base value of the spell itself. If you reduce the value of the modifier, you just don’t take it.

But this creates a problem: You NEED the modifiers to heal as good as any other healer. If you don’t have them, you heal like a wet noodle.

Its what happens with Chain Heal at the moment. Its like 40% of my healing, but only 10% of my casts. The rest of my GCDs are spent in modifiers to buff that 1 chain heal.

So. Unleash Life as a spell just adds to the problem. This points once again to the talent Rework we desperately need.

Did not do much PvP in SL. But I can tell you today that I dont need more modifiers to Chain Heal. And also, it costs a massive amount of mana. So you cant spam that all the time, and you wont get any value from it.

You have to balance things around the existence of M+ as well. It would make Elemental way too OP in that context. The same way Aug has been.

I love the idea of “battle shaman”. But the experiment blizzard did with overall “external utility” (Aug, SP utility, ect…) is a failure in my eyes. So turning Elemental into some sort of “support healer” is something that has to be looked carefully.

RShaman is something else. Because its expected for healers to DPS in the current dungeon/raid design. And RShaman has one very specific problem: It cant DPS and heal at the same time. And that gives it a massive disadvantage with regards to other healers. Its also much more boring.

Maybe a middle ground would be to turn some of these nodes into choice nodes. Where you can choose to get lower CD on your next cast (DPS spells for Elemental, Healing spells for Resto) or switch the type of spell them as you suggest.

That way you have the freedom to choose what “mode” you wanna play.

Hated it too. But having each ancestor spawn reduce its CD so that you get Spirit Walkers Grace every 30-40s (if you have Graceful Spirit talent) is REALLY good.

It’s possible to pick Primordial Wave without going down its Capstone, or using any other talent from the Fire build, as it’s right in the middle, close to Lightning build for some reason. You can just have it as an activator for Ancestors and nothing more. I fully agree however, that it ain’t ideal.

Well, Chains of Devastation in Shadowlands was hella broken and nobody used it, because it was under the Restoration legendaries and a “dps loss” for Elemental or Enhancement. Thing is, I was healing keys being top in both dps and hps overall, upwards of +26-27 without a healer, or a Palading tank healing the party. With proper cooldown usage, I was just being able to keep people alive for any damage pattern the game had to offer. This includes healing trinkets, healing weapon and healing off-hand from the Sepulcher, a ton of leech, etc. Mikanikos Elemental Battle Shaman was out of this world in terms of power, even going close to a whopping 150-180% of the total throughput of other specs that specialized in just dps or hps, but people never gave the legendary a second thought. This also includes mythic raiding progression, almost every single #1 HC log of every tier in hps, including Fated season, and even a bit of PvP, but the strength of the build lied mostly in PvE. Feel free to check my character for verification.

Now, if this was under the radar of the developers, it would have been 100% nerfed without a second thought, which is why I kept it to myself. Of course I don’t want this back, as I have added a lesser version of the legendary as a talent here, that works only when an Ancestor is active, or whenever Paragon is up. I’m not trying to break the game, just trying to make it more fun.

I don’t need to. I believe you 100%.

You have to understand that any system that allows this is perverted. It demeans the value of a proper healer.

To be honest, I disliked SL very much. There were even situations where it was more important to keep my elemental alive for DPS than to heal a DPS. Those situations should not exists.

And while this expansion has been rough to healers, from a gameplay perspective, I prefer this to the aberration SL became.

No combination of DPS should replace a healer. No healer should replace a DPS.

But that does not mean I dont agree with your concept of “battle shaman”. I like it. Its just that a RShaman should not hit as hard as a DPS, nor should a DPS heal as much as a RShaman.

However, there is a place for Elemental utility when it comes to healing, so you are on to something here. Prots and Gdruids heal the party a bit, and it is VERY useful. Rets and SP do it too to a lesser degree.

I just dont think reverting to SL state is the future.

So at the very least, atleast make this “heal weaving” a choice. For both Elemental and RShaman. I think its the healthiest thing.

Totally agree.

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