Feedback: Death Knight Hero Talents in The War Within

Frost DK opinions:

Rider seems fine apart from the RNG aspect, but it’s not a big deal for me. People complain about RNG when our class is based on procs either way. I’d really like a Glyph that would allow us to use any kind of horse mount for combat, since the Deathcharger is kinda old and outdated. Maw Chargers, Wraithchargers, Headless Horseman mounts etc. For those that fly, make them unable to fly in combat if it’s a problem, but I guess in areas that matter, we wouldn’t be able to fly either way.

Deathbringer… Oh boy. I was the most hyped about this one and it turned out the whole gimick is Soul Reaper+. I really dislike that talent and the whole class is built around the same mechanics. I hoped this class would emphasize Physical damage more and since Unholy is the DoT class (more than the other 2) they’d get the DoT synergy, but I was mistaken in the end. The talent as a whole is fine for the fantasy it delivers. I wish the last middle talent (excluding the final one of the whole tree) wouldn’t be a choose one but we’d have both. Other than that, the fantasy is ruined for me and personal bias is in effect. As I said, I can see the synergy and how it all plays out, but in the end of the day it is Soul Reaper with extra flavor.

Great to know that even after all this time blizzard still isn’t adressing the problems of the death knights and are even doubling down on it.

The feedback post is useless as it currently seems.

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You know what bugs me? I mean on top of all the countless issues this class has and how hero talents aren’t solving anything…

“Mawsworn Menace” from the Rider Of the Apocalypse tree…

The effect is clunky for UH (desyncing unholy blight from our 45s windows feels odd, and it will make defile an absolute must, with no sign of fixing its visual)

But more importantly, the theme.

Mawsworn… Really? I know it’s just a name, but what does that mean for DK lore in general going forwards? Arthas is gone (and permanently ruined by the jailer retcon). Bolvar has guilty absent dad issues and is generally a wimp ever since he lost the crown. Shadowlands in general just kind of ruined the Ebon Blade and DK lore as a whole. Now we’re going to have Maw and Shadowlands themed abilities?! Really!!! After even they admitted live that things went a bit wrong with SL?!

Edit: grammar.

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For you frosties, they’ve written these two lately.

Class writer seems to enjoy Deathbringer, which I can understand why. Though it is still mostly underwhelming. Anything that pushes more breath builds, especially looking at the current state of frost and its talent trees, is bad for me.

As for RotA… Well It’s bad for UH, it’s bad for frost…

All leads back to the same old subject. If the baseline is bad, it’s very hard to add something good on top.

Look at Ret paladins, both Templar and herald of the sun are great with only minor caveats.

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No no no no, paladins are the most punished class in WoW, trust the bozo that came to our forum and claimed such, and when challenged by me, who even did some research to try to understand the idiot, said idiot doubled down and acted even more obnoxious, even admitting to have never touched DK in their lives, but sure enough knew that DK’s where nothing bad compared to the plight of PALADINNNNNNNN

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Funny went over to the paladin forum to see what their hero talents feedback post looks like, 34 entries, 2k views.

Ours… 100+ entries, 3.9k views…

Suffer Well!

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It’s great to see that Necrotic Plague is kind of back with Whitemane’s Famine. It was one of my favorite talents. I have been waiting for it’s return since WoD. But could we please have it as a player talent instead of a pet casting it? Players need to control this ability when they need it. Not relying on a horseman proc.

Having Apocalypse Now also linked to Army of the Dead with such a long cooldown is an odd choice. If the Army of the Damned talent sticks around, I’m hoping this changes Army of the Dead to a flat cooldown reduction. As reducing Army cooldown with Death Coils/Epidemic only punishes those that can’t spend runic power or if there’s any fight downtime etc. Frost can potentially have a 1.5m Apocalypse Now making the cooldown gap between Frost and Unholy even larger. The same goes for Fury of the Horsemen, extending their duration from runic power spends isn’t great for the same reasons, please rework this.

In regards to Mograine’s Might, I really hope we don’t have to stand in his Death and Decay for the 5% damage buff. Following a pet around would be horrible. Not to mention when it runs off into the abyss on a raid boss, it won’t be possible to benefit from it.

As others have mentioned, Trollbane’s Chains of Ice could be problematic in dungeons and assuming his ability won’t even have any effect in raids at all due to the immunity to slows. The 5% damage buff could also be short if it’s consumed on damage with the AoE effect.

But unless the horsemen are proccing so frequently it doesn’t matter, we need more control over which horseman is summoned. Maybe that could be through choosing the spawn rotation etc.

Also fingers crossed for some great visuals and a new Deathcharger model.

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Just rework the class please, no borrowed power system will help - we been there done that, multiple times, have we learned anything?

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If by some miracle, some sort of insane scaling would allow blood DK with these talents to actually do a mean burst in PVP and PvE i bet my bottom dollar its going to get hotfixed in a day.

but if a Prot warrior manages to do the same with something crazy that allows shield slam to deal 40% of someones HP in one cast its goingot stay for atleast a week.

I mean, its so heartbreaking to see people comment “It’s nice to see SPELL X (which 4 years old design) come back”. Like, its almost incredible that the expectation for this class is soo low that people are happy with them just undoing horrible decisions. Its really depressing.

Again, do the class from scratch again, use the spells you already built, but change it completely, because at this point you really can’t make it worse. Again, no stacked borrowed power system will change anything.

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You cowards…

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im not gonna hold my breath, but i sincerely wish…not hope… i lost that long ago due to how you do things with Dk blizzard…I wish that this is only preliminary for a few classes.
its hilarious to see paladin and more be first to the party though, yes… good priorities there

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just watch them moving unholy blight and epidemic’s location and then call it a rework.

i know what your up to Blizzard your not going to do a damn thing whit frost/unholy.

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and also Blood DK

@Kaivax - No replies are allowed on main post so I’ll feedback here.

It’s great to see that DK’s are getting a ‘mini’(?) rework and I understand that it I have yet to see the changes however I can respond on what you have said in you post Here

Blood, I feel, isn’t in a bad way. The game play can feel a tad dull at times but overall is probably one of the better specs within the class. I believe the biggest ‘Change’ needed is making sure Blood keeps its more enjoy game aspects without bloating the spec significantly.

One way this could be done is by interacting with the thematic of the spec more. Blood is all about self healing, about using blood of your foe. - I’d like to see something like Shadow priest Vampiric talaent aas sharing that healing love would be amazing.

Changing breach to that 30s is, and I’ll probably get many different takes (Which is great! Do reply with your own ideas, feedback is feedback and always good in some form!), Great IMO. Breath build was very odd to play and enjoy. It felt amazing if you managed to keep it up but felt really bad if you missed anything or it just dropped off due to 0 generation availability. This is not a great way to play the game/spec.

An idea of mine was: Breath - You imbued your weapon(s) with the breath of the queen of frost wyrms. Each time you make an attack with a weapon for the next 30s your attacks apply a stacking DoT on the target(s) - Each stack reduces movement and attack speed by x% - At the end of the duration or upon reactivation you breath in the DoT dealing X damage to all targets within X range and gain y% attack speed bonus.

Please, also do not forget about 2-h Ob build. Many people love this spec and playstyle.

Unholy is interesting in the sense that its all over the place, it kind of knows what it wants to be but kind of not. Do you go minions or spread diseases?

Overall though, Unholy has so many areas of macro management that it becomes less enjoyable and more spreadsheet gameplay. The opening, I’m glad you’ve said, is very complex and while this eases up after the opener you still, during a fight, have too many areas to manage.

The identity of the class is odd. This needs to be fixed first and foremost. Learn into either side but make it less spreadsheet and more enjoyable. Make it so minions do the diseases and interact with them, make it so there’s less to manage and more to enjoy.

If your going minion build, build more on this. Make the class more about summoning and less about diseases, less about maintaining things on a target yourself and more about buffing your rotten friends. More about making more of them. You could make Army of the Dead a passive, i.e. Spend rune power to spawn minions, when you reach 10{?) your ability changes to Army of the Dead, spawning double the minions for X seconds and empowering your minions.

Diseases - if going this build you could go 2 ways, one would be 0 minions, you remove the ability to summon them but instead focus on the diseases aspect gaining DoT damage and effects Or limited minion build. Bring in Festermights brother, FesterRot. Make it so you can have these 2 minions for Aura damage and applying diseases you interact with?

But please, please do listen, a large pool of DK players dislike Festering wounds as a gameplay mechanic as it is. I know your stats may show different but this is as we have no choice really. It can stay but not as it is. Its unenjoyable, its another thing to manage, its bloated.

Overall I’m happy to see DKs getting that love, our cold dead hearts need it.

I do feel that Blizzard need to be brave here though. We don’t need tweaks or mini changes. All 3 specs need an overhaul and a full class rework is called for.

I’m looking forward to testing DK when i do gain access to Alpha/Beta.

However if one thing out of all of this is taken into account…

Be Brave. Rework us.

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I`m not a DK main, but lastly i play them a bit and I would say pls remove the DnD cleave condition, make stuff just cleave. I think its an awfull mechanic that u have to stay in your dnd to have acess to cleave. it feels more as a punishment that u have to do it rather than rewarding if u do it. I mean especially in the M+ enviroment with only 2 charges of dnd u have a lot of downtime and it feels awfull. Most tanks dont standing still a lot .
So if u change this interaction with the DnD it helps a lot.
Make stuff just cleave or let DnD be a ground effect under ur feet that follows u with a longer duration or something like that.

i overall hope blizzard will take a look at my post about how i think Unholy could work for War Within.

That they chose DnD to be the cleave enabler for frost, heck, the entire DK class for so long shows they have little clue about how the class ACTUALLY plays, should have been remorseless winter from the start for Frost, for blood its a non issue due to their free procs and ability to actually decide WHERE the mobs will stand. As for unholy’s wound pop cleave with scourge strike that has also felt a little weird, but since epidemic has semi put a band aid on relying to much on that (i havent played unholy since Legion, beacuse i thoguht it became to bloated after that with its rotation, Wounds also did ALOT more in legion, nowadays it’s an afterthought)

And yes, i am sad and mad, as i always am, the information and proof by our own eyes is there just how little clue and care they have for DK’s, compared for their other favorite classes is something i have refused to believe, even since the start in Wrath which had a class designed with people that enjoyed their job and creation, to much even given how strong it was at release. i was there though, the Beta, all of it, every other patch we half the damage than the patch before it, it was a stroke of luck that the patch Wrath relaesed in was the Big DMG patch for DK’s.

also consider before you make any remarks, that Other classes where arguibly MORE broken than DK’s in Wrath relaese, like paladings for example.

I dont want to believe that no one cares, that where a mere sideshow that they somehow throw a bone at, but that’s how fact and history has showed it so. and the complete slap in the face in announcing a full Windwalker monk rework FIRST thing in the new War Within feature showcase makes me want to do questionable things in anger and spite. OH no a spec has had a bad time in 70% of the expansion! we need to fix this ASAP!!111

compared to For example DK’s, with nearly all three specs rotating on an extremely stupid and neutered design and gameplay since the start of BFA.

there’s a picture somewhere of a pool, where a parent and two children are, the one in back is struggling to swim, while the parent infront is holding the “favored baby”.

that’s how it has felt like, for YEARS. And while i must admit that the favored baby is not one favored baby, but the baby behind it is us, always will be it seems.

Call me what you will i dont care “its just a game bro why do you care so much” “just reroll to something else, its not hard”

Some of us enjoy the class we picked years ago, and even if we do feel the power of another spec (venthyr warrior in SL) the fun level of that was markedly higher than the class you WANT to play and enjoy, it felt hollow… And yes i know spear of bastion was arguibly stronger in Arena, but condemn is the GOAT of fun. There’s a case here to be made about the continuing nerfs to Abom’s limb too , compared to spear of bastion.

Im tired, im angry, im sad, im frustrated, it’s been 7 or so years now of being stuck with varying colors of paint on a LEGION CLASS DESIGN WITHOUT A N ARTIFACT WEAPON, IT FEELS LIKE I AM PLAYING LEGION PREPATCH In WoD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

All the while priests paladins rogues Windwalkermonks mages and warlocks all get reworks by the regular, and we get NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING.

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Well let’s see what this rework is going to be…

I’m glad they communicated that changes are coming…

I’m really hoping that the reason why they’re not coming first is because they’re just realizing how neglected DK is. Maybe they’ve been looking at the raid dps performance and thought “hey these guys always seem to do a ton of damage so we clearly don’t need to do much”…

But now somebody actually looked into it and realized, “damn this class can indeed do a ton of damage but for all the wrong reasons”…

i’m just sad Blizzard is so damn adamant about Breath/wounds. It dosent look promising, from how love struck they are whit the degenerate play style they preach about those Passive/CD.