Feedback: Death Knight Hero Talents in The War Within

Classes Death Knight
147

Reads to me like he’s agreeing with you? I think he’s directing the rest of the message to the devs.

Anyhow as for the new talents…

Everything seems somehow more bloated than before.

Yes making a lot of the mandatory talents in order to make the spec work baseline is a good change. And yes it seems like there might be a viable DC focused build which could be fun to play around.

But please for the love of god and everything that is (un)holy, figure out what on earth is going on with D&D/Defile and the wound system first, SYSTEMICALLY. Not just little talent fix here, little talent fix there.

Also this current iteration, the talent pathing is so messed up again. It’s like a diarrhoea of talents in order to get to where we need to be. Just because some of the new talents are a little more exciting doesn’t make the overall shape better.

1 Like
148

See? :nerd_face: :skull:

Now another point…

Riders of the apocalypse will now be riding Mawsorn Deathchargers or whatever they’re called… Firstly anything that reminds of shadowlands and the maw, should be an instant no. Just forsake everything this expansion did even if us dks got some sick tmog.

Secondly, why change those awesome revamped death chargers we got in Legion? That still look fresh and up to date with the current game aesthetic and polygon count? Why not update… I don’t know… THE OLD DEATHCHARGER FROM WOTLK THAT LOOKS SUPER DATED?! Make glyphs if you want if some people like them, I don’t care. But those mounts are sick and don’t need updating. Wasting serious dev time sometimes.

149

Yeah, it’s super annoying to rely so much on DnD. If it was just extra damage and slow, it would be fine, but so many important mechanics are tied into DnD. It’s a dmg/healing boost, dmg reduction and increased targets on heart strike. When you design content that forces you to move every few seconds to dodge the abundance of frontals and aoe, having a spell that forces you to stand mostly still is really bad.

150

Imagine if it was a a damage reduction in the 20% bracket, or even 25%, you would still not stand in the ground Aoe’s that cover your entire DnD as blood tank, because those AoE’s will brick your key if they clip you in high keyes.

goes to show really

1 Like
151

I kinda dont like loosing secon ERW and rime generation on Abbo Limb.
Also on frost, blizz should fuse DnD with RW and frostscythe repleacing obliterate if someones talent into it.

152

Or u delete GA mand make frostscythe a rp-spender^^

3 Likes
153

I would really like that to be honest, also give for it next talent to increase procs of KM with more damage. But sadly by cost of not benefiting from KM it self

154

I think Glacial Advance should be baked in whit Cold Heart. at 30 stacks you fire of a Glacial Advance towards the enemy, and any enemy struck by Glacial Advance will get 5 stacks of Razorice applied to them.

Overall that would make Glacial Advance a little better to use, as for Frost Scythe it should replace Frost Strike, FS is not interesting to press, but whit Frost Scythe it can feel less bad.

155

Frosties y’all got some news:

I’m not very well versed in frost as I haven’t played it since Legion, I’m hoping that the changes they’ve done to frostscythe will make it a playable talent as it’s one of the most good looking abilities in the game.

Generally, this dichotomy between obliteration and breath builds still bothers me and the fact that D&D is still here is always going to be a huge issue, but that’s a class wide problem.

5 Likes
156

I feel like they hit half the mark with this [NOT REWORK], but [ADDITIONAL TALENTS], for me, i feel we still miss a way for us to replace Death and Decay, for a stronger form of it, like Unholy’s Defile talent for instance.

When we talent in to Absolute Zero there are nothing more to work from that talent location, and that in my opinion is bad as we should have something like Death’s Due for Frost DK, also i had hoped for a talent to replace Raise Dead for a Raise Lich, but, it seems we will have to wait longer to see talents like this added as an option for the Frost DK talent tree.

3 Likes
157

As long as pve players suggesting how class should work it will be bad.
You can kill npcs even without half of talents and gear.
Imagine playing dungeons while max level then go outside and die againts naked pvp player thats how good pve talents are.

1 Like
158

Maximum feedback
My opinion is very similar - I don’t feel like I have any choice. I feel awkward. It feels forced.
We still have the same paths of choice. Will we finally get a completely new talent tree?
I don’t want to see the old in a “new” version anymore. The old one is just terrible.

WE NEED REWORK, NOT REFRESHING THE CLASS

2 Likes
159
  • Wound system is still the biggest downfall of UH Spec as a whole. Feels horrible to switch target, feels terrible to manage, it’s a really slow build up compared to other classes.
  • Our Cleave damage heavily relies on Death and Decay which is absolutely a dead spell by now. In WoTLK when you could stand still for half an hour against bosses and trash packs, it was good, but now you are basically forced to move constantly and DnD as a whole makes pugging an incredibly horrible experience.
  • Outside of burst, we do no damage
  • Death strike by default costs too much and the heals are mediocre (PvP)
  • Death Grip should put a 3 second slow on the gripped target by default
  • Boneshiled for UH DK : Make it so we can make the decision to be more equipped against physical damage, should probably be a choice vs buffed AMS
  • Unholy sacred ground - passive slow by doing one of our strikes (I prefer having this for UH than spamming chain of ice)
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160

AWOO! AWOO!

One big, systemic overhaul… The new talents atm look like they’re blending some ideas a bit, removing some bloat, fixing things glaring issues with the current system…

But we don’t want the current system… Maybe one day they’ll get that. Anyone on Alpha just spam them through bug reports or something, not sure if that serves anything but evidently this forum is a bit of an echo chamber.

2 Likes
161

it is only an echo chamber to a point, the second someone writes something that might imply self harm, or harm on another, it is seen within 5 seconds and promtly dealt with.

it’s just that legit concerns like…you know, CLASS ISSUES, never leave the forum where people bring it up, it’s truly a mystery.

3 Likes
162

Probably automated bots that sort that kind of stuff out. Was thinking that maybe the US DK forums might be bit more active, but overall seems similar. One or two posts with loads of engagement, loads of empty ones, repeat requests, and no blue entries.

Think the fact that we got this one going for so long is impressive on its own accord. Not sure if Kaivax is actually reading this and reporting back to anyone.

OI Kaivax, how you doin? Give us some cool raccoon facts or something.

3 Likes
163

tldr; Please open up for UHDK to dual wield again. It could be fun.

First of all, I absolutely love the new unholy tree. This is the best has ever looked with sensible pathing, while still having choices to make. Ive always disliked army and gargoyle and them being synonymous with the nuclear launch code opener. Currently cooking up some cursed build with wounds/disease/magus over ghoul/army/gargoyle:
(BwPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgkQSSChEJJJSkkISEAAAAAAAAAESIRSkEAQTCpkIJJBiACkIElCgWAEgA)

This and the new sudden doom got me thinking about the old dual wield one-handed unholy dk. Hear me out. While the resource management might be a bit funky, both death coil and epidemic now consume wounds, and with increased attack speed (1h > 2h) you could fish for more procs. You could then aim to almost exclusively press your runic power spenders instead of scourge strike for wound bursting. This would align with sanlayn being very haste focused. It would also open up for more variety in runeforging like hysteria (which you also have forgotten what even does) instead of being forced into fallen crusader for the 5th expac in a row.
Regarding the dual wield vs 2h it could be a good reflection of the same choice that frost currently have.

Now I dont have alpha, so I dont know how this new iteration plays, but there is a yet unimplemented talent between Raise Abomination and Unholy Aura, which happens to be in direct extension of all the death coil talents. This could be something that would allow for this playstyle to happen. Maybe having death coil crits burst an extra wound or something to open up for a crit prio build (I dont mind that we are always haste/mastery, but it would be a little bit of a different flavour just for the cause of shaking things up a bit). Or something like ‘Death coil now costs up to 60 rp. For every extra 10 rp death coil increase 5% in size and will burst one additional wound’. This could also combat the risk of overcapping rp.

1 Like
164

I’ve read the feedbacks people did regarding the tree and you guys acted on it. You obviously won’t do a complete DK rework (which would be needed imo, especially for UH and Frost) however atleast you listen the feedbacks of the talent tree, so thank you for that. You guys still need to address the DnD issue for us. I don’t hate pressing Death and Decay but this ability as it stands makes the DK one of the most inconsistent DPS in the entire game, especially with pugs. The game is no longer a stand and auto attack in any end game content, you are almost constantly moving in fights, DnD is nothing but a chain for us. Either remove playing around it or make it where DnD gives a debuff on the enemy that stays for the same amount of time as DnD on the ground, so in the case the mobs moving out from DnD (which will happen in every scenario possible) we can still cleave properly.

1 Like
165

You haven’t solved the DND problems we all know. I don’t want another buff for me to track when someone/something goes beyond DND… - it can simply work as an aura or similar to Unholy Blight, only with different mechanics. Then these two skills could be placed in one place as a choice.

You haven’t solved the problems with Festering Strike and Festering Wound - you want to encourage me to use FS a lot but it deals so little damage with Festering Wound that it is ridiculous and not worth it. Try changing targets by applying Festering Wound on 2-4 targets - it is impossible. How are you going to encourage me to press Festering Strike? I don’t see a single reason. Not even one.

Festering Strike still has RNG for applying wounds
We still have wounds that are not being improved in any way
We still have the old tree layout
We still haven’t received 5-6 new talents
You are intentionally making it difficult to access must-have talent (example):

  • Death Rot, Morbidity, Pestilence or Vile Contagion, when i need only pick Suprestrain…
  • Why do I have to choose Army of the Dead when I want Rise Abomination?

Have you counted how many bad talents we have, unnecessary, boring or chosen only because we have to choose something?

You’ve just done some work for BETA Dragonflight. Now take this tree and change it for TWW.

I see absolutely no reason for there to be 2-point talents for the DK tree and the Unholy tree. Are so weak - that it shouldn’t even have no.

Why is Abomination Limb hidden so low? Why don’t you add a talent that buffs Abomination Limb or changes the way it works?

Soul Reaper is in a strange position without any support or improvement or change to its operation. Frost DK gets this for free from the hero talent…

Why don’t you add talents like Swarming Mist, Shackle the Unworthy, Death’s Due, The Shambler and talents that improve this skill?
Where is Undertaker’s Crown, Engorged Limb, Scourge the Unbeliever, Reinforced Manacle, Formless Executioner, Death Turf, Ancient Drake Breath, Phearomones, Nightmare Tendrils, etc. etc…

Summary,
you did absolutely nothing that the players asked for - you did nothing about DND and you did nothing about wounds.

Do you read players’ opinions or do everything according to your own preferences?

4 Likes
166

Firstly, great summary on how batcrap crazy our design really is, few can really bring it forward like that.

and secondly, No…they do not hear one iota of our concerns, forums to them are just entitled customers that had one bad pvp fight and will queit down tomorrow or reroll. both solves the problem, and they go about their usual day to think about better things for other classes.

the entrie Death and decay question is something i have wondered about for so long, and cleaving strikes. Then it hit me… in the devs eyes, there is NO PROBLEM, because they made a talent for this entitled class of whiners (that one time completely bodied their mage in Legion, so now they hate us)…and that talent is the 90% decaying lingering slow for death and decay, in their eyes there is no problem, because our concern about having to move, and the mobs moving is just us being delusional IN THEIR EYES, because we have a slow that keeps mobs and enemy players within the cleave area :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

What they dont know is that ALL CONTENT above leveling have slow immune mobs, and all classes have dashes/blinks/and teleports for DnD slow.

They reason in a completely different way than us.
they see things in a completely different way than us.
They dont want to listen, because they have already decided that our feedback and “whining” is just entitlement and modern toxicity, I WANT TO BE WRONG IN THIS. But all things point to it, its gone on far to long to be the cause of ignorance at this point.

perhaps they had a similar approach to paladin, i cannot say for sure. But i do know that for those classes that are not favoriutes…but have content creators that make good vids and can showcase issues, changes come real quick.

our situation is forever dark, we have no voice to show just how stupid our design and ganmeplay is, alike savix and more, our class discord is full of yes men that are afraid to rock the boat, and many of them does not even see certain problems, due to not ever going off the icyveins META pick for the current patch that the average joe runs into.

Kaivax, hear me. despite my rage, my vitriol, and my words, ALL i want is for atleast SOMEONE competent to Dev this class, perhaps not even for TWW, perhaps not even for Midnight, but this has to end, this clownshow HAS TO END.

the consensus is resounding, R E W O R K, ACROSS THE BOARD FOR MAYBE ALL THREE SPECS, you have no idea of the rage and disspaointment seen when the first thing announcent for major change in The war within was a windwalker rework, IMAGINE WAITING FOR YEARS AND GETTING NOTHING, WHILE ONE SPEC HAS A BAD PATCH OR TWO, AND GETS IMMDIEATE ATTENTION

4 Likes