Feedback: Death Knights

In Development The War Within Beta Test
102

For the recent changes to Uh spec, the base spec talents needed some tuning down but not all the nerfs make sense to me
to be more specific
-Clawing Shadows nerf ,i get it goes along with SS nerf but this being on a talent choice node already is so far behind Plaguebringer that actually needs buffs insteadof nerfs to be an actual choice, either split the talents so they don’t have to compete with each other or buff the ability in a way.
-Festering wound nerf , doesn’t make much sense just, hurts even more the value of applying wounds, casting FS in our single target damage rotation ,already as it was the abilities needed more reasons for us to wanting to press them. Feels even worse now…

Talent Pathing and in general Some talents nodes still need help Pestilence,All Will Serve,Unholy Pact,Ruptured Viscera,Gargoyle,Festering Scythe,Decomposition,Runic Mastery most of them will never get picked for any reason so they are just dead talents.
Pathing to Doom Biding for aoe builds feels bad , since its a mandatory talent cause its so strong. Also please consider changing Improved Festering Strike/Runic Mastery to 1 talent point node. Doesn’t feel needing to spend 1 more point to get into the next tier of talents.

Now Hero Talent changes
-Rider of the Apocalypse some bugs still persist with the rider minions, not scale with everything they should or not using their abilities as often as they should( example Whitemane not using DC ability hardly at all).

-San’Layn The bug with the indicator not showing when VS procced, still is there, plus SS resetting the bad luck protection for it when using DC, Epidemic. VS doesn’t scale with all the effects it should. There is a bug when you extend the Essence of the blood Queen buff to your next DT/Gift of the San window giving double stacks for a while. Sanguine Scent makes VS always crit in execute range for no reason. These bugs and their abuse in some cases gave the impression that San was so ahead in terms of dps. Nerfing the spec in a way was needed but all the nerfs combined where over the top. After all all these bugs are still here while the spec was nerfed into the ground. These bugs should get fixed first and then balancing should take place.

2 Likes
103

Subject: Feedback on Recent Unholy Nerfs and Frost DK changes

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my thoughts on the recent nerfs to Unholy Death Knights from the latest patch and offer some suggestions for better changes in the future.

Unholy DK:

First of all, why does Unholy get gameplay nerfed for virtually no reason that I can see as being unhealthy for the spec? I understand certain values being adjusted, like the Gift of Haste % in the San’layn tree, but everything else seemed fine, especially the duration extension for diseases provided by Infliction of Sorrow.

What I criticize is the overall significant decrease in throughput that San’layn got with the base kit, while simultaneously nerfing every single point in the San’layn hero tree to non-existence. This makes the gameplay loop not worthwhile anymore. The Infliction of Sorrow disease duration increase was one of the most fun and unique mechanics I’ve played with in years.

For those who say these nerfs were justified, here are some points to consider:

Augmentation Evoker hooks are not working correctly in logs.
The Infliction of Sorrow for Unholy was nerfed to 100% in a previous build, but it wasn't implemented in the game and still damaged for 200% value despite the tooltip saying 100%.

From these two points alone, Unholy had more damage than intended, and Augmentation hooks most likely didn’t work correctly with this ability, skewing Unholy’s damage data even more. Adding Power Infusion to Unholy made it look worse than it already is.

In conclusion, please fix all the reported bugs first! I understand it’s time-consuming, but before heavily nerfing targeted things based on currently meaningless data due to these bugs, it seems out of touch.

Frost DK:

After my proposal to give Frost a unique identity, you guys broke down the capstones and massively buffed them, which looks nice on paper. However, the general feeling about the spec remains the same. The capstone rows got so immensely buffed that you have better damage now, but the implementation lacks added gameplay feedback. Specifically, critiquing the Long Winter row, the focus on base white hits (auto-attacks) with no gameplay changes is really boring.

This brings me to the current weird state of Pillar of Frost:

The cooldown with or without Icecap is 45 seconds/1 minute.
The cooldown of Frostwyrm's Fury is 3 minutes (1.5 minutes with Absolute Zero talented, enabling Rider of the Apocalypse for the hero tree).
The cooldown of Empower Rune Weapon is 2 minutes.
Breath of Sindragosa is 2 minutes.

Pillar of Frost needs a flat timing instead of this odd tax point system for cooldown reduction. Icecap should be changed to something that buffs Pillar or whatever instead of having the tax point. Make Frostwyrm’s Fury a 2-minute cooldown and bake Absolute Zero into that or delete it.

Frost still has many bugs that need fixing or the intentions should be clarified, such as Shattered Blade not hitting with the offhand. The Deathbringer hero tree for Frost costs so many runes now with all the resource nerfs that it feels clunky and disrupts your rune distribution. The damage Reaper’s Mark deals is okay, but considering the high rune cost, it feels underwhelming and can lead to rune starvation.

Frostscythe also needs a buff; its damage should be increased to make it worth pressing again. If you play Deathbringer + Frostscythe + Obliteration, it’s challenging to sustain any gameplay loop without running out of runes.

Thanks for reading.

4 Likes
104

Can devs finish one work and then go to next ? Starting reworking DK then jumping to hunters then to shamans and leaving mess. Also why nerf San layn hero talents so hard that for BDK its unplayable ? When all classes now have party buff maybe give DK something ???

2 Likes
105

https://ibb.co/6rBSRVT
Unholy is worse than the tank in dealing AoE and ST damage/overall xD

Taeznak, have you already made your new sims? Everything is fine? Is there anything else that needs to be removed?

1 Like
106

Frost DK Feedback :

All changes made by devs looks like they want us to have a more simplified gameplay, but overall i have to say that i dont feel like they want Breath to be the identity of this spec, a lot of thing have been removed to make our breath duration be the shortest possible, we got buffed on a lot of things but the changes on the talents makes me think they want us to play obliterate, although breath is in a good state at the moment (in my opinion ofc), i dont feel like confident in the spec. The work done on frost spec is good but please don’t forget about breath of sindragosa.

I beg ! Revert changes on Murderous Efficiency !!! bring it back to 50% , the procs during breath are the only tricky thing to manage during burst and it is the main difference between a good dk and bad dk, the management of procs.

Anyway as always keep on the good work, cheers.

107

That’s a can of worms opened, and DKs like worms, so don’t hold up too long before revealing the raid buff for DKs! :slight_smile:

It’s an interesting combination, though I would expect critical strike chance instead of haste, so it aligns with the critical strike damage. Also, it will likely be 2% to each effect, since 3% exists for effects that grant single effect (Devotion Aura, Mark of the Wild).

Now I actually expect DKs to get a raid buff with either one stat at max 3% value, or 2% value and another added effect. For example:

  • 3% haste OR critical strike chance buff (least likely, as its both boring and possibly too powerful when you add it up in a raid)
  • 2% haste and movement speed by 10% buff (speed not stacking with other movement improving effects, close to original W3 DK Unholy Aura)
  • 2% critical strike chance and 2% critical strike damage and healing buff

Alternatively, to add a raid debuff (like DH and Monk) rather than buff, we could get something like 5% critical strike damage taken by the targets we hit. Such effect would be thematic with DKs weakening their enemies (as opposed to goodie-two-shoes Paladins buffing their allies), possibly as a disease (undispellable).

3 Likes
108

The main problem with it being crit chance is the fact our KM is guaranteed crit and so is Sudden Doom Death Coil to, that’s why i think 3% Haste and 3% crit damage fits better along our theme, some classes just don’t care about haste as a main focus of it’s class design but care about the crit damage. Destro Lock and DH can stack high crit chance for more damage, as for Frost/Unholy DK, we would benefit more along the line of having increased crit damage as we already have those guaranteed crits from our spell procs.

3 Likes
109

Just give 3% haste and that will be enough to inviting DK in parties

1 Like
110

The reality is that a raid buff is not balanced around the class that provides it. Instead, it is balanced against all the other possible raid buffs, especially to avoid overlap. That’s why it’s called a raid buff, it’s meant to buff the raid, not just the person bringing it. :wink:

DK granting 3% critical strike chance raid buff would be done regardless whether it is optimized against Frost’s KM effect. Besides, it still benefits abilities other than Obliterate, so it’s still good.

As a DH tank I’d love a DK in my M+ for extra Parry chance, and my Tauren Resto Shaman would look forward to getting more crit heals. A whole Mythic raid with a DK increasing everyone’s crit could make or break a successful kill on a boss that otherwise would be a sub 1% wipe.

After further consideration I think Haste raid buff might somewhat encroach into Bloodlust territory, whereas critical strike chance or even more so critical strike damage/healing is a bit more unique (and can be baked into a debuff rather than buff).

1 Like
111

I tried out Frost after the “recent” changes and I’m sorry but we went from overcapping resources to being often “dry” aka starved of runes and runic power. I mean hell, overcapping resources feels awful but having no runes to consume a KM Obli or having no RP to press FS is worse.

2 Likes
112

UNHOLY FEEDBACK - episode 2024
Quick fix:

  • Combine Apocalypse with Vile Contagion
    This could be as an Apocalypse upgrade talent
  • Set choice node between Army of the Dead and Raise Abomination
    And create space for these talents above Apocalypse
  • Festering Scythe must be baseline
    Remove the requirement, or lower the requirement to 10 stacks, or make it work with Sudden Doom
  • Magus of the Dead and Menacing Magus
    Must be in a different place, because if I don’t choose Apocalypse and I choose Army of the Dead, I can’t use these two talents - This is not acceptable.
  • Death and Decay
    Set this as the aura around DK
  • Defile
    Change the appearance or add a glyph that changes the appearance
  • Rider’s Champion
    Set a rotation for the riders outside the burst window and make them called in pairs.
    Nazgrim paired with Withemane and Mograine with Trollbane
  • Anti-Magic Zone with an improvement talent
    the same reduction for everyone: Blood, Frost, Unholy
  • Gorefiend’s Grasp with an improvement talent
    Access also for Frost and Unholy

Impossible is nothing - just do it !!!
and take my money !

113

Frost DK Talent Tree Feedback

Currently, there are a few issues with underused or clearly ineffective talents in the Frost DK talent tree.

Chill Streak: This talent could benefit from a refresh to make it justifiable to use. For example, making Chill Streak proc Killing Machine guaranteed on use would enhance its utility. Additionally, the extra note for Chill Streak needs significant improvements to be worth the talent point.

Horn of Winter: This talent, which costs one point, would be much more useful if it were off the global cooldown (GCD). This change would greatly assist current builds that struggle with rune and runic power starvation, such as the Deathbringer Dual Wield Obliteration build.

Inexorable Assault: This talent does not work well with cleave, making it highly lackluster. It either needs a strong buff for single-target scenarios or should be made to cleave with a slightly reduced effect, making it a worthwhile pick.

Cold Heart: This talent needs a significant damage boost to be considered for use. Its current state lacks the power to be a compelling choice.

Frostscythe: After various resource reductions and this talent not receiving equivalent buffs, it has become difficult to use effectively. It holds an odd spot in the rotation where it doesn’t hit hard enough but needs to be pressed for value.

Cryogenic Chamber: Remorseless Winter is already strong, which makes Cryogenic Chamber lackluster in terms of pathing. This talent needs a rework to be more appealing.

Avalanche: While it fits its niche of applying Razorice stacks for builds that generally don’t use Razorice, Avalanche feels bland and weak overall. It needs enhancements to be more impactful.

Rime Procs: These procs are generally weak in their current state and could use a buff to increase their effectiveness.

Icecap: As pointed out by many, Icecap is in a weird state where it doesn’t align well with other cooldowns every other use, making it inefficient and confusing. Adjustments are needed to ensure it lines up better with other cooldowns.

Resource Management: Overall, the resource management for Frost DKs was nerfed, leading to frequent dry streaks. Adding a bit more runes or runic power would help alleviate this issue, especially for the Deathbringer build, which faces significant resource problems when opting for Painful Death instead of Swift End.

These changes aim to address the current weaknesses within the Frost DK talent tree, making the talents more attractive and viable across different builds and scenarios.

114

For blood fix san layn hero talents… Visceral Strength is bad… Increase blood beast spawn… Make Bonestorm interact with insiatable blade talents… Make Gorefiesnd’s gasp baseline (its a little silly spend talent point of our iconic utilitty)… Give DK party buff because its very big problem for pugging when class doesnt have party buff…
I will repeat myself again blizz you were moving kinda right direction with rework but you dropped again and moved to other classes and again you will leave us for whole expansion on ignore…