Feedback: shift passive damage from BM runes to active damage to balance pets

Posting this as its own thread in order to try and get more attention to it.

So I’ve been thinking about the runes and the changes. I still think that the best short-term solution would’ve been to reduce pet damage against players.

However, hunters need a rune overhaul so what could that entail?

First of all, a shuffling of runes:

Kill Command moves to the glove slot, Beast Mastery to the chest slot and Cobra Strikes to the leg slot.

Heart of the Lion is removed as a rune and given as a baseline ability learned from a quest but without the personal hunter buff (or with in the future for better scaling, whatever)

This leaves the gloves with Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot, Carve and Kill Command. Two AoE abilities and two single target abilities.

Carve could deal 100% weapon damage when hitting 1 target as I’ve seen suggested before. Kill Command would be changed (see below).

Chest ends up with Beast Mastery, Master Marksman and Lone Wolf. A 4th rune for the chest would have to be added, probably melee focused (that fixes Mongoose Bite/Counterattack for instance), and all chest runes would have to be re-balanced if needed.

Legs would have Cobra Strikes, Flanking Strike, Sniper Training and Serpent Spread. Of these, Serpent Spread is the only odd one but the others seem fitting for the three main playstyles: BM, MM and melee. Sniper Training would have to be improved as it’s quite terrible right now though. Re-balance leg runes as necessary.

Now, as for Kill Command, it could be a 6s cooldown attack and become the BM spec’s “main shot”. It can benefit from Arcane Shot talents, which could make the talent that reduces AS cooldown useful, a talent that is otherwise trash.

It may or may not share a cooldown with aimed shot depending on balance at higher levels, as aimed shot won’t be picked for a BM hunter till we’re 51.

KC would then have your pet(s) deal damage to the target, similar to the way it works in retail. This attack could deal damage directly or directly with a DoT component.

The damage and type of attack could also change depending on pet type or family in order to balance it. For instance, cats would deal a bit less damage with it due to their 10% modifier while spiders would deal a bit more because of their 7% modifier. This makes the ability balanced across families and pets*. Additionally, the spider KC could deal poison damage or provide some kind of utility debuff instead of a cat’s, which could be bleed focused.

If things such as Dire Beast or a 2nd active pet are introduced, these would also KC but for a specific amount of damage and different effects (slows, debuffs, etc.).

Kill Command can have some kind of interaction on its own and/or with other runes like triggering/consuming Cobra Strikes, giving a chance to reset Dire Beast’s cooldown like in retail, etc.

And why all this? Because now you can reduce the damage of the Beast Mastery rune to 10%, the health to 20% and keep the focus at 80% or reduce it if necessary and instead you shift the power of the spec into Kill Command and Cobra Strikes, balancing each rune as necessary. Cobra Strikes could also be more involved than just making a pet special/KC crit after a hunter crit (any crit though, not just shots).

The % of our damage tied to our pets being 50% is fine, what is not fine is the zero input required from the player.

Of course, balance the other runes so that MM and melee are viable and competitive. Don’t dumpster a spec in favor of another. I want to be able to raid as a beast master.

*This would not be enough to make more families competitive. Spiders still have no focus dump despite being a DPS family, Scorpid Poison doesn’t scale at all and it should so that they can become competitive options, Screech needs to scale better so that bats/owls can be used as DPS options, Furious Howl is still bugged and needs to scale, other families need help (hyenas, crocolisks, crabs, etc.)…
See my previous posts for more ideas if you like (Not Another Hunter Pet Post - #7 by Mattilda-firemaw).

Please, consider this feedback!

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This is the only solution yes, because otherwise AoTL de facto makes all other runes sharing its location useless.

Carve is a bad rune in all cases, without viable melee specialization, this skill is useless even buffed, whether they transform this rune into an escape skill or to get closer to their target in melee. Something utilitarian, something hunters sorely lack.

There are some good ideas in your post, much better than Blizzard is capable of. One downside, Blizzard doesn’t care about this forum, only the US forum may still have a slight impact, but the EU forum…

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Sadly I cannot post on the US forum. I try posting on Reddit and on here often as well as sending them these links through the in-game feedback option.

I only wish they they took feedback like this into account to balance classes for the better and not just due to short-term complaints.

Phase 2 will be decisive for the viability of the hunter class in SoD, if no runes that greatly modify our gameplay appear, if nothing else is done to improve the existing ones and we must be content with a Vanilla hunter, I have other alts in reserve.

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Phase 2 will be the glory age of Hunters with full BM tree unlocked, and it’s also where it will get a lot more nerfs.

Nerfs Hunters get now are nothing compared to what will be needed to be done in P2.

Yes I had forgotten that only the hunter in phase 2 would be entitled to lvl40 and the new runes/skills.

As a reminder, currently if you have trouble against hunters in PvP it’s a problem between the keyboard and the chair.

No, not only.

However, BM tree was not designed around stat scaling pets with extra 20% damage/healing on top of it.

The power it will provide will be pretty insane, especially Bestial Wrath. Wait till that goes online in BGs, you can bet pets will be nerfed the next day.

Your suggestions are amazing. Hope posts like these will get Blizzards attention.

And the best solution will be to separate PVP and PVE balances

I fully agree with your suggestions, BM should remain pet focused but require input from the hunter. Changing KC to match the retail version is a first step. Passive effects that require the hunter to actually play (like cobra strikes) are also good. In comparison the BM rune is a passive buff that’s active at all time.

You need to make a trial account and lvl a character up to lvl 10.

heart of the lion removed as arune, i agree. i dont see it happening, but its a pigdeonhole we cant escape if it shares a slot with a big dps rune, as its to valuable for the melee. it will scale with agility though. at 60 with around 450 agility, 20.6% or so agility will be around 96-99 agi. thats almost 200 rap and 2% crit, and more pet damage.

KC should be a DoT, like warriors bleed (with the same mechanics please … ) scaling witk ap, and ticking with a % of the lastest hunter attack. if its a crit, then the KC crits 3 times.

i dont like that the main shots all end up in one slot, espessially the single target attack AND the aoe attack sharing a slot. we need both availible in a raidrun, one for trash, one for singletarget. so they should not share slots.

the overall problem with the setup is that the options are dps, dps or melee dps. its been our only option and probably will remain so, but it will require hunter to be the top dps class if so. the way meta-gaming works, we are either on top, or not viable, and get reduced to buff-bots yet again.
why bring a second hunter, when all the utillity comes with just one, and melee is so much stronger? thats been the problem in classic. if that doesnt change, the class will be rare as anything but a farming-alt.

if boss fights get longer at 40, wars and rogues will shine even more as they have unlimited resource, hunters already struggle with mana if the raid dps is low overall and we have no way of getting mana back except for potting.

could see them adding aspect of the viper or sumit along them lines

wouldnt be surprised if they do, and call that a “fix” while most bosses dont have mana, so no tapping of them, AND ure dps dies using globals on regen.
they need to just cut manacost of attacks to whre its not a cap to gameplay, its a pointless feature. or add a very powerful passive regen that doesnt cost globals or dps runeslots.