Feedback: Warriors

In Development The War Within Beta Test
6

Feedback : Slayer Fury
With return of bladestorm and slayer talents target cap doesnt feel like as much of an issue as before but regular non proc based rotation needs some adjustments . Suggestion , outlaw treatment with 8 target cap.
Execute still doesnt feel good to use it since its being remade and a hero talent tree buffing it still doesn’t make it feel better. My suggestion is maybe rework Ashen Juggernaut talent talent to give damage instead of crit chance considering the nature of fury warrior crit chance doesn’t really effect much.
Single target feels lacking , there seems to be a push to use bloodthirst a lot but fury bloodthirst isnt a hard hitter to begin with even when you take all the buff talents for it. Unhinged casting 2 bloodthirst while arms counterpart casting 2 mortal strike just feels like a joke because the skill hits like a wet noodle compared to mortal strike.
Cold steel , Hot blood talent feels too much of a rng to take without guaranteed crit. Maybe make that skill not require crit to make the talent competitive. I doubt it will break the game because it doesnt deal huge damage to begin with.

Class tree ( Fury perspective )
It feels better to be able to pick a bit more utility but still having too many dps nodes and having so little meaningful utility is an issue still. This need better solution then what we have currently.
Spear of bastion / Champion’s spear : Not fun to play around , never was . Rune of power kinda mechanic where you have to stay inside it and it is pretty much required for any pure single target fight. My suggestion to fix this is removal of this talent and maybe replacing it with another shadowlands ability like ancient aftershock or banner. Ancient aftershock could bandage the problem of having little utility because of the interrupt effect.
For now this is all i can say , we don’t have m+ to test any numbers yet properly because everything dies in 5 seconds. I’ll do an update when those are available

1 Like
7

Hello, I wanted to provide a bit of feedback around the effects of the mountain thane hero talents. To note, I’m not a number cruncher or high end experienced player so I’m focusing more on how something looks and feels from a mid-core standpoint.

I’ve been trying the spec on training dummies as a protection warrior for now and really like the smoothness of the rotation and build. The effects are great for both aoe and single target since the procs are primarily around thunderclap and shield slam. You’ve kept it all simple, which for a mid-core with an energy-based disability is really great.

The current level of the character (the starter greens given at lvl 80) makes it a bit slow, so the next comment may just be fixed with higher haste as the gear gets better (also maybe I haven’t selected the most ‘efficient’ talent combinations, but I don’t want to copy someone else’s tree for testing, I just went for the talents that felt good for me in single target against a raid boss):
There are some points during the rotation against a training dummy where I felt the rage generation was a bit low, I could use a shield block and ignore pain once in a while but it felt difficult to maintain them adequately sometimes if I wanted to maintain use of revenge for additional shield slam and lightning procs. I’m aware there’s also resource generation when getting hit but in cases where something doesn’t hit back for a while (imagine a boss mechanic where it’s just aoe magic damage for a phase), it might feel a bit awkward. Not that we always have to be pressing buttons every second, and probably stat related, but thought I would add this in. Maybe thunderblast could proc a little bit more often outside of avatar activation? If you’re unlucky you can get 5 or 6 thunderclaps without a thunderblast proc in a row.

Not sure if this is a visual bug maybe, but when tanking a main target with a minor target next to me it seems the minor secondary target (which I am not focused on) is the one taking most of the lightning strikes (from the testing I’ve done so far anyway). I’m wondering if it’s worth increasing the chance the main focused target gets hit, this could help with the prot spec to help damage priority targets a bit more, and also help regain aggro on a target faster if the lightning tends to hit the focused target more (e.g. fire mage bursts something and taunt is down at pull of adds or a pack).

Lastly just a comment on the visuals and fantasy. I really love the lightning theme, although I feel like there could be just a little bit more distinction to it passively to the other hero specs. Maybe a constant lightning effect of some kind on the character, or a few animations added with lightning effects. The only attacks with lightning currently are the blast and the bolt, and avatar has a little ‘shock’ aura effect with activation (but not maintained for the duration of the buff. It feels a bit underwhelming currently with the effects and I’m not entirely ‘immersed’ into the fantasy of being a lightning wielding specialist (I’m not saying it should be like a stormbringer shaman, just needs a bit more on an ‘oomf’). The power feels ‘borrowed’ in terms of fantasy, as if it was an equipment gifting me this power and not the character, as it only shows on one or two specific abilities.

Over all, loving the direction for the mountain thane hero talents and how the prot spec is feeling. Really looking forwards to this expansion! Thank you very much for all your hard work and dedication!

8

ARMS - Colossus Hero Talent

Cooldown syncing:

  • When playing Spiteful Serenity, Demolish generally lines up with Colossus Smash, but will desync more and more as you increase haste and crit. However, you don’t really want weaker Avatar and Colossus Smash for Demolish, making it a counterintuitive choice. Also I think Spiteful Serenity is way less fun than Anger Management regardless of situation.
  • When playing Anger Management, I have noticed I can usually sync Demolish with every other Colossus Smash. It feels pretty good.

Execute phase:

  • This hero talent doesn’t function at all in the execute phase. Even with forced Mortal Strike usage through Executioner’s Precision and free Mortal Strikes from Unhinged, I never manage to max out Colossal Might.
  • The hero talents don’t mention Execute for the execute phase at all, which is core to Arms class fantasy. I get that Slayer is the Execute hero talent, but I don’t want Execute to be completely ignored for Colossus. At least make Demolish deal more damage during execute phase, or increase Colossal Might stacks in execute phase.

Bleed build:

  • When I skip all Execute related talents and pick Skullsplitter and Thunderous Roar, it flows pretty well. Demolish doesn’t really feel important though, just another button to fit in.

2 target cleave:

  • Ravager (Unhinged) and 21 second Sweeping Strikes feels great on cleave. You get 2+ stacks of Colossal Might pretty much every Mortal Strike. Demolish usually lines up with Colossus Smash and gives a fluid playstyle.

AoE:

  • You are encouraged to press Mortal Strike instead of Whirlwind. This results is lots of Cooldown reduction on Demolish. Overall I’ve notice pretty good overlap between Demolish and Warbreaker.
  • Doing a build with Champion’s Spear, Storm of Swords, Collateral Damage and Warlords Torment gives a very satisfying gameplay loop where your cooldowns line up. The hybrid playstyle of Mortal Strike and Sweeping Strikes in AoE feels surprisingly good.

Visuals:

  • 5% size isn’t enough, it’s not noticable. It would be cool if size increased per stack of Colossal Might, or increased even more with Avatar when playing Colossus.
  • Demolish doesn’t look impressive. I feel like Fury’s Rampage looks cooler. It doesn’t have enough weight to it, it’s decent but not very impressive at the moment. The two first swings feel so weak. I suggest taking inspiration from the Barbarian Upheaval ability in Diablo 4.

Overall I think Colossus is a pretty good hero talent. It works well in most cases aside from the major problems in the execute phase.

1 Like
9

Protection warrior feedback :

  • Overall, I’m unimpressed. Neither hero talent trees feel like they are freshening the rotation or the visuals.

  • The new class tree, while giving access to Shockwave earlier for Fury + Mountain Thane, doesn’t feel like it’s changing anything to what talents we’ll take. In particular, the reign of bleeds will continue, making Cruelty+Thunderous Roar+Words the only viable option vs Spear side.

  • I heavily resent the loss of Titanic Throw. I feel like my ability to do big pulls in M+ pugs will be severely harmed, once again far behind what a paladin or DH can do to create snap ranged threat.

  • One positive point : Berserker Rage being baseline. It was feeling weird losing a core identity skill on the altar of optimization.

2 Likes
10

I had another go at heroics and shuffling some talents around.

The difference between the two Hero talents is like day and night. I’m now pretty certain that Thane was made by someone playing Protection Warrior and Colossus as Arms without considering that it will be linked to Protection spec too.

Why you may ask? Thane is based on Thunderclap. That ability has so many interactions in the class/spec tree as:

  • Avatar (Instant TB)
  • Shield Slam (2 free slams and procs of TB)
  • Revenge (Show of Force, dmg inc or procs of LS)
  • Unstoppable Force (dmg inc / cd reduction with Avatar)
  • Blood and Thunder (rend)
  • Crackling Thunder (dmg / size inc)
  • Seismic Reverberation (dmg inc)
  • Thunderlord (reducing DS)
  • Demo Shout (pricing TB)

All that has great syngery and each ability you pick has meaning of what happens next. And when you look at Colossus, you got what? Anything that applies to Revenge and Slam. Nothing else matters - Avatar/Demo/LS/SW/etc. It is a blatant version of a good idea for a Hero talent tree. It is not made for Protection which means it may force us to use Thane only.

Summarizing this.

  • A class tree is a mess for Protection Warrior and there is no way we will ever pick Spear, it is still the same but with quicker easier Shockwave, but some other talents are spread too far away in the wrong spaces or ask for 2 NODS instead of 1.
  • Thane currently can do huge damage with the right talents, provide a nice shield of around 600k on Intervene and that’s it.
  • Colossus is slow, boring, and just the wrong version of a legendary axe. Waiting for the ability to come off CD while you are 10 stacks and hitting hard Revenges (which is SPENDER, not gainer like TC in Thane) is just utterly boring. Not even a size increase will push it over for me.
  • Utility is still lacking as only Colossus got that knockback which might be our answer to stun immune mob control.
  • GIVE US a grip, but don’t make it tight to TC as Thane has enough interaction with it already. I already wrote about the options above.
11

Hello there!

I do not know to place my take about warriors, because it is not exactly the feedback, it is my thoughts about warrior, especially it killing feature. I had that thoughts long time before (since SL for sure), but recent “Warriors State” by MadOx, Den and Archimtiros has showed that Im not alone here.

I wanna start with some other classes identities.

  • Mages are most masterfull wizards in the game, so they have access to personal Time Warp. (rip in TWW, but anyway).
  • Unholy dks and demo warlocks are minion masters, so they have their horde of minions.
  • Evokers has unique augmentation spec.
  • Paladins have a lot of major externals and immunities, beacuse they are protectors of others.
    That are p flavorfull skills and abilities. Some of them are insanely powerfull and spec-defining. And usually quite broken (PI+UDK burst).

Lets move to warrior. They are descripted as the most skillfull martial class in WoW:

For as long as war has raged, heroes from every race have aimed to master the art of battle. Warriors combine strength, leadership, and a vast knowledge of arms and armor to wreak havoc in glorious combat.

Unfortunately, I can not find the real definition of our (warriror) perfection in melee combat. Are we delivirieng most deadly blows? No, monks do stunning damage with their unarmored strikes compiting with arms. Are we the fastest blades? No, dh and outlaws are as fast as fury. Are we the unbreakable wall? No, paladins use shields as good as us and dks can withstand magic projectiles much better.

To sum up warriors don’t have their killing feature as perfect melee combatant. In other words, warriors do not have their MEGA button or ability as most other classes. But I have a dream about it…

As warriors describes as most versatile and skillful melee combatants, so maybe they can change talent builds then others cant?

Maybe it should be possible only for Arms, because they are surely best of the best at arms. It will be MEGA warrior button, that will be class(spec) defining. Also i think it can help warriors with balance of utility/performance (sure, that there are a lot of discussions of not perfect class tree above).

Otherway, it can be not that BIG button, but any form of talent swapping. It undelines our capability to fight anywhere anytime using anything.

PS a little bit inspired by pf2

gl all

1 Like
12

Arms - General AoE

  • Cleave being a 3 second cooldown doesn’t feel very good. Just alternating between Cleave and Overpower is not very interesting. This also means Cleave will never be used with 2 stacks of Overpower unless you have Collateral Damage.
  • Dreadnought is currently so weak that Whirlwind is the correct ability to use until you are out of rage (Slayer). This doesn’t even take into account rage spending bonuses like Anger Management.

Suggestion:

  • Increase Cleave’s cooldown to 4.5 seconds or 6 seconds. This would make it feel more impactful like Mortal Strike, and also make Exhilirating Blows feel better in AoE.
  • Buff Dreadnought or the Martial Prowess bonus to Cleave. “Overpower increases the dmg of your next Mortal Strike by 30% or your next Cleave by 45%” for example.
13

Class Tree.

A little bit more regarding the class tree in a more compact way. The possible changes or different approaches to them can be seen in my first post. Also reverting to the 1st wave of class tree changes would do much more good, yes it is just like 2-3 talents but they make much more sense and how they were placed. Then do the below.

Dead Talents:
Bad talents that we will never take or there is no way we can pick them due to the amount of talents we can pick.

  • Bitter Immunity. I will write a little bit more as I was super happy to see that, then I saw the CD of it. Couldn’t have been more wrong than that day when I thought we were saved from some of the crap that hit us. Still, it didn’t even affect Bleeds.
  • Cacophonous Roar (bad). Remove or change as post 1.
  • Menace (bad). Remove or change as post 1.
  • Berserker Shout (no points)
  • Piercing Howl (no points)
  • Champion’s Spear (bad). Put Ancient Aftershock in.
  • Piercing Challenge (bad). Change into interaction with AA.
  • Champion’s Might (bad). Change into interaction with AA.
  • Endurance Training (no points)

Boring Talents:
These talents are boring and I feel like, nobody had a better idea what to put—sometimes acting as a ‘band-aid’ for the class (STR+armor, haste, or leech).

  • Leeching Strikes
  • Cruel Strikes. Make it 1/1.
  • Wild Strikes. Make it 1/1.
  • One-Handed Weapon Specialization. Remove, and bake in.
  • Armored to the Teeth. Make it 1/1.

I can’t get why they are all 2/2 which makes me unable to pick anything fancy as I have to have them to be competitive.

Protection Tree:

I had another thought about it and looking at VDH and grip, I could understand you would probably not want all specs to have it and rather keep it a tank ability. Therefore you have an easy solution to your problem which brings diversity to m+ vs raid talent comps.

  1. Make Ravager as I said before in the Revenge spot.
  2. Put a new talent in Ravager spot with a bad_ass name
  3. Make that talent ‘force’ mobs to run towards the warrior
  4. Make a nod under it that changes that into pulling the mobs into a warrior

This can easily fight with Shield Charge (dmg) in m+ to get a grip. There is plenty of room to play with.

14

Please do not change the Intervene and remove the ‘spells’ part from it. That was one of the coolest changes for us that made us a little bit happy inside. We could be useful and had some fun with SR at least.

Also why on earth are you losing your time to ‘rework’ Ravager’s extra nods, they ARE USELESS. Completely, useless.

Can you please revisit the Protection tree and read the above feedback, please?

1 Like
15

Feedback Fury ( 12.06.2024)
After the rearrangements i tried fury again.
Class tree , actually nothing changed. Same problems still exists , class tree needs a heavy rework. I am picking same stuff still. Still taking an extra utiliy or any niche node causing me a lot of dps loss. Spear of bastion still needs to get replaced with something more interesting too.

Spec tree
Seems like you are pushing me out of taking onslaught and forcing me to take of instead which i dont mind but there is currently a huge problem. Fury is having hard time keeping enrage without onslaught currently. Spec is revolved around enrage and it doesnt feel good to play it like this. Probably by the end of expansion with bearable haste values this wont become a problem but currently it is.

Changes to Anger Management and Unbridled Ferocity:
Unbridled Ferocity is a completely dead talent right now which has no reason to exist. 6% proc rate is a joke. Picking it feels like complete waste of talent point. Either remove it / replace it with something else or revert the changes. With both Anger Management and unbridled ferocity nerf , spec doesn’t feel like functioning properly currently. Rage starving , lots of ‘’ i have to get enraged so i have to press everything ‘’ moments.
Bladestorm Anger management bug starting around lvl 75-76 ish with slayer tree still exists. Seems like if i take unhinged talent , anger management doesnt reduce cooldown of bladestorm.

Slayer:
After the changes of today , feels like i’m relying too much on rng. I don’t personally like it. Also execute still hits like a wet noodle.

Damage:
I have no comment on damage because again , we dont really have an actual enviorment to test it yet.

Edit : Damage seems lacking a lot , spec feels horrible to play in m+ enviorment currently. I am relying too much on cooldowns and my cooldowns arent really that impactful either

Edit2: After lots of testing ( both dummy and m+ ) i have reached a conclusion that spec is dealing no damage. Am / Uf nerfs hurts the fluidty of rotation also. Spec is currently monotone , nothing exciting happening. Recklessness alone isn’t a heavy cooldown anymore either. None of my cds are exciting to press. Spec either needs a full rework or revert and serious number tuning.

1 Like
16

Dear Blizzard,
since i am a longterm Warrior player and esp. Arms preferer, i’d like to give u a feedback on the recent changes in terms of removeing WWind and enhancing the Cleave cd.

I got to say that i dont rly get your point there, slam is still in the game, wich sadly still is a very clunky not used either as not good filler. in my opinion you could rather remove slam then WW since:
You kinda need cleave to get Deepwounds (our mastery) to all enemys. Whirlwind was a perfect ragedump to shorten down our CD of Warbreaker/Colossus smash, and felt somewhat good in terms of class id.
either this played into the Bonegrinder talent wich now becomes “useless”.
with the remove of ww and longering the CD of cleave it just feels VERY clunky to play.

So please consider the gameplay feeling of it.
there is no buttonbloat as it was told.
would be fully fine to remove slam completely since noone is useing it anyway.

further i got to say, i would rly like to see not getting busted for picking up more “defensive/support” talents and haveing to suffer in terms of dmg improve talens such as 10%str from armor val. or 10% more hp.

rightnow its kinda VERY hard to get into m+ keys on the higher end if u need to pug them, since this class does not offer anything to deal with certian affixes.

please dont follow this mistakes in the war within.
so i highly consider to review the Fluidness of gameplay in the terms i listed.
either as getting a bit away of the “you have to suffer” mentalety in talent choices.

thanks alot.

  • Arms
    • Cleave now replaces Whirlwind.
      • Developer’s note: We feel that Arms has an overwhelming number of abilities they must use in their AOE rotation, so we’re making Cleave replace Whirlwind to help alleviate that.
    • Cleave cooldown increased to 4.5 seconds (was 3 seconds).
      • Developer’s note: We are happy with Cleave’s position as the focus of Arms AOE but feel that the 3 second cooldown put too much pressure on the rotation. Increasing the cooldown will allow more room for Overpower and rotational cooldowns like Sweeping Strikes and Warbringer.
    • Dance of Death has been redesigned – When an enemy dies while affected by your Bladestorm, all damage you deal is increased by 5% for the remainder of the Bladestorm and for 2 seconds afterwards. When an enemy dies while affected by your Ravager, its duration is extended by 2 seconds. These effects can trigger a maximum of 3 times per use of Bladestorm or Ravager.
17

First impressions Slayer: There is some wonkiness with Unrelenting Assault reducing cooldown of Bladestorm for both Arms and Fury - cooldown is reduced in the UI, but it seems like it’s de-synced with the server and you can’t press it until such time that the ability would normally be available. It currently makes it pretty hard to playtest the spec correctly.

Arms seems generally okay, spec tree is good.

Fury on the other hand running out of buttons to press after all the changes to BT and Raging Blow just feels bad, I feel like Arms has better availability of just Overpower+MS than Fury has for BT+Raging Blow+Rampage outside of the Recklessness window. Vicious Contempt being a 2-point talent is kind of awkward if we now have to put talents into both BT and Raging Blow. Old issue but why is Single-Minded Fury still a talent? It being worse than Titan’s Grip is bad enough without us having to spend a talent point on it. Odyn’s Fury is now on the opposite side of the tree form Bloodborne, meaning 2 of the 3 bleed talents Fury has are on the left side and one is on the right side, maybe put them together and decouple Gushing Wound from BT? IDK.

Idiosyncratic issue: Slayer’s Strike audio makes me nails-on-chalkboard level of uncomfortable every time it happens.

1 Like
18

• Colossus talent tree feels simple, it does not have any synergy with AVATAR as one would expect. Something has to do with Avatar in this talent tree, after all it is Colossus.

• AVATAR and COLOSSUS SMASH should grant Colossal Might stacks. Stacks build up too slow.

• A MOUNTAIN OF MUSCLE AND SCARS is 10/10. The 2.5% damage reduction feels insignificant, 5% would work. Also a slightly larger health pool would fit nicely with colossus flavour. Great talent anyway, the 5% character size increase is just epic.

• PRACTICED STRIKES feels like an empty talent because the 20% increased damage on Mortal Strike will be lost due to tuning. It should give critical strike chance also.

• DEMOLISH; the 2 second root and channel is a no go for a mobility dependant meele class. Especially since I am locked out of action bar buttons with 2 bladestorms which already feels meh. Demolish should be instant.

• It creates keybind bloat. There are no keybinds left to press in the comfort zone. Rend, Impending Victory, Sweeping Strikes, Skullsplittter, Thunderous Roar, Bladestorm etc there are too many important buttons that must be pressed and now one more Demolish.

• Mortal Strike should turn into Demolish at 10 stacks to save some keybinding. Also Rend baked into Deep Wounds as a passive talent and to keep the skill expression, reapply it with Mortal Strike within a certain time to do extra damage like the warlock Dots or something like that.

• Overall, warrior in general should have more mobility and durability. Not healing but damage reduction. Impending Victory is overpowered and increases keybinds unnecessarily. I feel like i press some cheat potion button. I believe warrior durability should come mainly from damage reduction and not healing big chunks of hp like a healer or death knight.

• We already have SECOND WIND with PAIN AND GAIN as healing which is really awesome. REINFORCED PLATES armor buff or ENDURANCE TRAINING stamina buff instead of Impending Victory or a node with it somehow.

• I do not get why it has to hit and heal similar to a Death Strike. I am not at all for Impending Victory but if anything make it a reduced HEAL OVER TIME like the rogue CRIMSON VIAL or the druid FRENZIED REGENERATION so that when hunter shoots me from another planet I can still press something to heal.

• ENRAGED REGENERATION should also be a HEAL OVER TIME since it can easily be disarmed, parried, dodged, cced and kited the way it is now.

19

The new Blademaster’s Torment seems to me to be a swing and a miss:

  • This turns the talent from hard-lock in PvP to basically a talent that’s never going to be picked in PvP.
  • For PvE AoE putting Cleave and Sweeping Strikes together in a button is weird since Cleave does not benefit from Sweeping Strikes, so you get a free SS but then are hard locking every other GCD to Cleave. If you’re strictly in a 2-target scenario it’s just extra Sweeping Strikes uptime, which is an ability that already has a really high uptime (50% baseline, up to 70% uptime if talented).

Also can we make it so Warlord’s Torment isn’t strictly 60% worse than Fury’s Berserker’s Torment? Arms gets Recklessness for 6 seconds when you press Avatar, Fury gets Recklessness for 8 seconds when you press Avatar and a second Avatar for 8 seconds when you press Recklessness. I know the specs are different and balance needs to be taken into the account, but given this is a class tree node and not a spec tree node, it should be roughly equivalent value for both specs.

1 Like
20

I did not like being locked in beyblade mode so much time… Just buff recklessness to 8 seconds and go big criticals, makes more sense.

21

Recent or lack of changes tell me that nothing will be done and we (protection warriors only) can join shamans as a laughing stock with no changes whatsoever and no improvements to the spec.

Dear Blizzard, please can you have another look at all the Protection Warrior feedback and approach the spec accordingly? I could vent about how we are always kicked out of the cool kids club just because we are a generic fantasy class or how you nerfed us S1 because we were overperforming (54% were PW btw…) and didn’t do anything like that while others were 90-99% played class but I will just keep calm and /catjam.

My main issue and probably the vast… I mean the small community of Protection Warriors, we have two new Hero talents yet:

Thane
This tree is a copy/paste of what we have no with Holywood special effects. It is the same talent setup with probably 1 change in the class tree if you want extra damage, but the playstyle did not move a bit, the talents you picked didn’t move either. I thought we were supposed to have refreshing gameplay each xpack so it does not feel like we just playing Dragonflight again. Don’t get me wrong, that is the playstyle I enjoy but there is no twist, no spec tree changes, nothing which isn’t right.

Colossus
And here we are using/buffing the wrong talents without providing enough rage generation. This tree is based on the spender without any sort of rage gain from other sources, causing this tree to be slow, rage starving. And to be fair… Adding a legendary effect from a previous expansion as a feature is not to my liking, but that is my personal opinion. Also, the animation of that Hero talent is nonexistent. Can’t you add some overlay on warriors when the stacks grow up? So each 2-3 stacks warrior becomes (temp) burning with fire around the character and one the 10th stack you have a cool animation of being a Colossus, being angry, and releasing this with a Smash (this could add up to your overall Demolish animation).

Class Tree
The second part is a class tree and talent positioning, and their interaction with Hero talents etc.
If you are playing Thane, it would be no no-brainer to pick Intervene as your safe pick, not that Thane Intervene’s shield is great but that is just an extra value, nothing to be hyped for yet (tunning?). Although if you are playing Colossus you may NOT want to pick Intervene as without the ability to intercept spells it does not bring anything special than it was. But to get to your 2nd rage generator - Thunderclap you have to pick it or waste a talent into Storm Bolt going through the Leech route. That is where you failed with the class talent tree, pathing like that is just badly designed and forces users to pick something they may not want. If you have added your main abilities such as Thunderclap into the talent tree then position them at the start. You should be using this to provide options for users if they are Raiding/5maning etc and if only one Hero talent has anything to do with Intervene, don’t force it on another one! Put TC on top after the defensive stance, make a path for SB, and Intervene as an extra choice on the side, don’t force people to play it.

Class Talents
Some talents are pointless or require urgent assistance which we already mentioned about it here or on our US bro’s side, yet still nothing.

Intimidating Roar - It is capped. It has a 1.5-minute CD with an 8-yard range. Why capped?
Cacophonous Roar - Why does this even exist? Remove.
Menace - Why does this even exist? Remove.

Honed Reflexes - 5% on Spell Reflect? Pummel? Well good like seeing a difference.

Bitter Immunity - Talent with a 3-minute CD and not even taking bleeds or magic debuffs. Why? Why would you put such a horrendous long CD while it only affects something that is usually applied every 15-30 seconds or more? Don’t force everyone to play Dwarf…

Blood and Thunder - I can see that you tried to make second talent better by moving the 10% damage there, but nobody would swap out of it for any fight that has more than 1 target. Not even to mention if that is a sanguine week, that slow from second talent isn’t the best choice!

Unstoppable Force - Whole Hero talent is based on TC and it’s damage so how we would not auto-pick that? Yes, making Immovable Object not get ‘reduce efficiency’ now could help it but there is no way out here.

Commanding Shout - Reducing this to 10% and removing the increased effect talent made this much weaker talent and our usefulness in raids smaller outside of one warrior to bring AP buff. At least what you could do to increase this in 5 man content.

Too many 2 point strong nods which are a must and are boring.

Spec Talents
Nothing has change here as adding 5% Magic DR as a pick is telling us, you are struggling with the spec tree and adding blanket DR for us to be useful.

Fight Through the Flames - 5% DR? Eh.

Last Stand - This was nicely covered on US forums so please read that.

Challenging Shout/Disturbing Shout - For love of god and Xalatah. Please dont merge these two talents into one. There were raid bosses where you would love to use the interrupt but you shouldn’t be taunting the boss with it. Yes, CD for both could get better. To be honest the Challenging Shout as a standalone button should be affected by AM as it is just a flavour button. While Disturbing Shout would still be 1.25 or 1-minute CD with a silence effect after it interrupted the mobs.

Unnerving Focus - Already said that but let us repeat it. If there is no tier/spec/hero talents interaction with LS, this would never be picked as LS has 3 freaking minute CD.

Dance of Death/Storm of Steel - The recent change to make it one nod made me laugh. Are you trying to hide it so we don’t complain it is a dead (as the name suggests) talent? You have the fantastic option here to add something to beat Shield Charge nods. I would rather not have it this way but…

“When the Ravager is cast, the blades dance around and pull all the mobs into the center of the storm”

Trust me, I’m a pilo… Protection Warrior at heart. This would be a banger, it would be crap to tide that to Ravager but would maybe provide some nice gameplay.

Battle-Scarred Veteran - I can see you are trying to get this working as a cheat death if you want such ability for warriors, you should redesign it.

“Mortally wounded warrior just before the dead he becomes a rock. Warrior is unable to use anything for 3 seconds and after that, he is left with 50% hp and losing 25% of its hp per 8 seconds.” or something.

Hero talents

Storm Bolts - This is the worst try of making a talent good and you are adding a CD on top of that? It is random, and with other talents, we have this will not be useful quickly. You can easily change this to “Target struck with Storm Bolt, will cause other targets around him to suffer nature damage”.

Storm Shield - Just please do the tunning here, shield is too weak. Good idea, but only available for Thane isn’t the best course of action and Colossus should have its own counterpart.

Martial Expert - Critical Block?? We already (when critically blocked) block enough to laugh at the damage. Not sure what the author wanted to achieve here, to be honest.

Demolish - I can’t see or know when it is done. Better animation, please.

Mountain of Muscle and Scars - You are comparing 2.5% less damage to 8% that Thane provides. Yes, it is less often but Thane also does 5% on Demo.

Propositions

  1. Grip (class/spec - PW). This can be linked to 3 different talents and we have empty (wasted) nods on class or spec tree.
  • Ravager
  • Intimidating Shout
  • Heroic Leap (second to worst)
  • Thunderclaps (worst possible due to Thane)

  1. Blood Lust (class). This is something other people really would like, I’m natural about this. It would bring some refreshment while composing a M+ group thought.

  2. Commanding Shout nod (spec - PW). Ability to change 10% HP into 10% DR.

  3. Necro Banner (spec - PW). The banner theme is always something that brings good memories out. You would have an open option to play around with different nods that would affect it instead of dead nods that are currently there.

  4. Ancient Aftermatch (spec). Replace the spear, everyone would be happy.

I guess that is it for today’s story. Probably won’t be read as this is EU and this topic got barely 20 posts before mine (including 4 of my own posts, lol). But I do hope at least some of it would pass thru to the devs, of course only the good things.

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It’s a solid and frequently picked talent for PvP.

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That is the reason why PvPers should have their own little tree with fancy things to pick from and not be bound by PvE changes and vice versa. But they aren’t treated that seriously anyway.

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Continuing the discussion from The War Within Beta Development Notes:

This unfortunately doesnt fix anything. I would expect a bit more effort from dev team but seems like fury is forgotten.
The talents buffing odyns fury after last weeks changes are basically opposite side of the tree right now. You listened really loud minority and going into the route of slowing down the spec while none of the fury mains wanted in the first place now created a new problem putting 2 underperforming abilities on the opposite sides of the talent trees while the talents buffing them / make them somewhat viable became impossible to pick.
Seriously just revert all the changes you did to recklessness uptime at this point and spec tree. You guys are almost out of time , this clearly isn’t working out.

There are easy to notice issues with current fury atm. Recklessness is not that strong of a cooldown unless uptime is high.
You guys treating Fury as heavy hitter by giving same synergies with arms ( bloodthirst/ mortal strike) but that doesn’t work that way.
Fury only has 1 spender and its still a talent point. Please explain to me how do you plan to play the spec without taking rampage or why i have to spend a talent point for that.
Target cap 5 is outdated.
Core abilties without buffs doing no damage. 1 of the hero talents ( slayer ) based upon execute and execute deals no damage.
After the rage regen and major cd changes keeping enrage up outside of stationary fights like target dummy is basically a dream and spec hurts heavily if you are not enraged.
Both hero talent specs are kinda boring and adds too much rng. I was hyped for Slayer when i heard the name but turns out its spamming bloodthirst till you get a proc sim.
Both spec and class tree too many boring % damage increase talents. Clean them up and buff the spec accordingly. Spec doesn’t deal any damage to begin with currently and lacks lots of utility. Cleaning them up and adding utility options while buffing baseline should fix the issue.
New tier set is boring to play. Adds nothing to the spec.
Spear of bastion / champions might ( whatever its new name ) needs to go , another shadowlands ability like ancient aftershock with 8 target adjustment can fix both dps and utility problem for m+ if tuned correctly. I never seen anyone excited to stand inside that god forsaken circle.
Again , there is only 1 spender. I’ve been asking this for years , please revert bfa execute changes.

This is as far as i can remember. I’m not gonna play the game till i see an actual positive change.

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Thomas here, hardcore arms warrior main, multi rank 1 glad/legend and awc cup finalist. Im talking for pvp mainly.

The change of blademasters torment actually made me so mad u cant believe how my blood boiled when i read this. Only cuz the synergy with slayer. Change it for slayer only then ffs rather then killing it for everyone. Same counts for the pvp talent storm of destruction for arms. Only change the cd for slayer then.

I mean you nerfed warlords torment cuz it was a 100% pick in pve and after that you outright kill blademasters torment ffs. I cant believe this. You just keep killing all capstones in pvp. …

Its the same with death sentence pvp talent. You remove it cuz the synergy with slayer. That is fine tho cuz its way to awful without slayer and too braindead with slayer. Such stupid stuff should never be a thing. Anyway it hits the same point. You just remove something cuz off one spec. Thats literally so awful from you i swear.

The talent that gives str per armor before spear locks you out of roar kinda in pvp. Either change position or buff spear again. Was dead after DF S1 anyway. Rest of the trees look good actually.

Old problems are spell reflect still reflecting one cast rather then everything for one second so it can randomly break from one of a billion imps or blazing barrier dmg or undead racial and what not even if timed perfectly. Idk how such stupid things do not get changed.

Also think about buffing warbanner. Were at a point where u just pick sharpen, bladestorm and battlefield commander as talents and go full yolo cuz the rest isnt too competetive anymore. Thats stupid. Could reduce cd or increase cc reduction effect or both. Then we have a button more that requires brain power to press which is always better then strict dmg buffs or whatever.

Dstance giving a harder penalty then profit is also stupid. It should always be 10/10 or 15/15 or 20/20.

When i first saw the intervene tooltip i was hyped. Finally u can intervene frostbolts and what not which increases the skill cap. Now it turned out that it wasnt intended. If its too op to intervene stuff like sheep, let it work vs direct dmg spells then only. It never made sense u cant intervene frostbolts or what ever.

Theres so much to do. Do something at least. I beg you.

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