I have been playing as a feral druid almost my entire wow career which is not much, I only started playing a few months before Legion pre-events. But still, I always enjoyed it. It had its problems and it's strenghts just like any other class, but all the time it was playable, or in other words - you COULD PLAY the endgame content if you were a feral. And not be a joke.
Since BFA started, the class is terrible. It's extremely underpowered and you can barely even SEE a feral druid any more. I was one until last night when I decided to try balance. I wanted to do that cause I was sick and tired of being carried trough raids by my guild. At certain moments it seemed like me being a feral became an inside joke we have. My dps is always one of the worst, raid or m+ content, whatever...
Sure, I know you can optimize it, hope for the best gear, get your rotation to be flawless, pick bloodtalons and ONLY bloodtalons and all that. And still you end up doing barely AVERAGE dps, so why should anyone even bother? You can play literally ANY other dps class with 40% of the effort and do just as much dps. If not more. I rly do not enjoy playing a game like it's my job, just to stay competitive with everyone else who don't even have to try to achieve the same effect.
Ruining feral is just one more thing about BFA that is a disappointment for me, and I sincerely hope we get some respect from blizz in a future patch or hotfix. 'Cause right now , if I had to switch to balance (ew ranged, btw) I am SURE a lot of other ppl did the same... Not by choice, we were pushed into it.
Feral in BfA 101:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8w2ohMbNOU&feature=youtu.be&t=15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8w2ohMbNOU&feature=youtu.be&t=15
3 Likes
I'm not going to sit here and say that Feral is fine, but after 4 buffs since BFA launched, it's now not as bad as the community perception. Yes it isn't top tier, but not everyone can be top tier all the time. The key is to have every class being able to make a meaningful contribution and at the launch of BFA Feral simply couldn't.
A big reason for the bad reputation of Feral is due to the unforgiving nature of the spec that requires time to perfect. Unfortunately most of the community run into Feral players learning the spec or playing with sub-optimal talents. It doesn't help when the vocal majority of struggling Feral players keep slating it because they either can't play the best talents correctly or play the simpler talents expecting them to do as much DPS.
It's a difficult one for Blizzard because they need to give Feral players an incentive (more DPS) for using the complicated talents but also need to balance the spec against other specs to avoid all the mythic raiders re-rolling to Feral.
In other words, the most complicated rotation needs to have enough of a DPS improvement so people wants to use them, but the simpler talents can't be too far behind otherwise it discourages players to try the spec.
I believe it is a no-win situation as:
1. If you buff the simpler talents so they are closer to the complex talents then everyone goes towards the simple builds and upset some long-term players (patch 7.3 anyone?)
2. If you buff the spec as a whole then you run the risk of the complex talents being OP compared to the rest of the DPS specs.
3. If you remove the simple talents you make the learning curve even steeper for new players.
4. If you remove the complex talents you risk upsetting the majority of long-term Feral players who have stayed with the spec for years.
The dichotomy between complexity rewarding DPS within a spec but not across all the DPS specs is the fundamental issue here and won't be resolved without major changes to either; Blizzard's philosophy, or a complete re-work of Feral to remove some of the layers of complexity.
A big reason for the bad reputation of Feral is due to the unforgiving nature of the spec that requires time to perfect. Unfortunately most of the community run into Feral players learning the spec or playing with sub-optimal talents. It doesn't help when the vocal majority of struggling Feral players keep slating it because they either can't play the best talents correctly or play the simpler talents expecting them to do as much DPS.
It's a difficult one for Blizzard because they need to give Feral players an incentive (more DPS) for using the complicated talents but also need to balance the spec against other specs to avoid all the mythic raiders re-rolling to Feral.
In other words, the most complicated rotation needs to have enough of a DPS improvement so people wants to use them, but the simpler talents can't be too far behind otherwise it discourages players to try the spec.
I believe it is a no-win situation as:
1. If you buff the simpler talents so they are closer to the complex talents then everyone goes towards the simple builds and upset some long-term players (patch 7.3 anyone?)
2. If you buff the spec as a whole then you run the risk of the complex talents being OP compared to the rest of the DPS specs.
3. If you remove the simple talents you make the learning curve even steeper for new players.
4. If you remove the complex talents you risk upsetting the majority of long-term Feral players who have stayed with the spec for years.
The dichotomy between complexity rewarding DPS within a spec but not across all the DPS specs is the fundamental issue here and won't be resolved without major changes to either; Blizzard's philosophy, or a complete re-work of Feral to remove some of the layers of complexity.
I did 6k dps on my 346 druid...
Til a guildie told me to switch ĂĄ fra talents and download Hekili addon...
Now im doing 9k..
Still depressed tho for needing an addon to make me press the right buttons
Til a guildie told me to switch ĂĄ fra talents and download Hekili addon...
Now im doing 9k..
Still depressed tho for needing an addon to make me press the right buttons
We must be some kind of a good mix between Sub and Assa Rogue as it already is.
But Rogue generates his Combo Points and Energy way better.
Because of the Powerhouse Utility-kit of a Rogue, Feral should be even, maybe stronger, in RAW Damage Power.
Thanks for the coming AoE Row with Primal Wrath and the Mastery buff.
But Energy and Combo generation should be looked at. I think here is the turning point.
But Rogue generates his Combo Points and Energy way better.
Because of the Powerhouse Utility-kit of a Rogue, Feral should be even, maybe stronger, in RAW Damage Power.
Thanks for the coming AoE Row with Primal Wrath and the Mastery buff.
But Energy and Combo generation should be looked at. I think here is the turning point.
1 Like
I am tired of reading the same things again and again, feral is bad and it’s gonna Be bad stop crying.
1 Like
16/10/2018 10:38Posted by BanegrI am tired of reading the same things again and again, feral is bad and it’s gonna Be bad stop crying.
+1
Scrolling through here on a daily basis and see the exact same threads over and over.
Why feral so hard
Why rogue better
Why no guardian
Why my boom damage so low
How do pve damage
Tbh I play feral, resto & boom and have a lot of fun on all. For feral I just run shred spec with moc&sr with shred traits and pull some pretty meaty single target damage and I just spec boomy for g’huun which always ensures big damage and #1 spot.
Also just started my boomkin 3s journey. Also fun.
1 Like
Druid is garbage this expac.
They are useless compared to other classes, and they aren't even fun to play.
This goes for ALL speccs.
Any specc they have - any other class can do a mile better.
Guardians are being out healed + absorbed by fury warriors.... 1v1 shouldn't be able to kill a tank.
I'm 99% in on rerolling and I am spending more time picking flowers and leveling alts than having fun playing this class.
14 years of maining druid, never had a break from sub / playing, and this expansion is sincerely feeling like they are spitting on druids... 100%...
They are useless compared to other classes, and they aren't even fun to play.
This goes for ALL speccs.
Any specc they have - any other class can do a mile better.
Guardians are being out healed + absorbed by fury warriors.... 1v1 shouldn't be able to kill a tank.
I'm 99% in on rerolling and I am spending more time picking flowers and leveling alts than having fun playing this class.
14 years of maining druid, never had a break from sub / playing, and this expansion is sincerely feeling like they are spitting on druids... 100%...
4 Likes
As a 2450 season exp and currently 6/8 M feral main for 6 years, I can tell you Feral Druids really aren't that bad. They were only bad at the start of the expansion but they were still in PvP thanks to their overtuned healing and the Raking Ferocity trait. As of now they are one of the best dps in arena and mediocre in raids. We could use mark of the wild or leader of the pack back. My main issue right now is that it feels slow and clunky, specially since they removed powershifting at the beginning of Legion and the GCD changes...
1 Like
PvP: Don't Care
Raid:
-We are ok on DPS, but i miss the absolute Single Target power in exchange for the bad AoE.
-For a Single Target Niche Class we lack on short "burst tools" on one target.
-As usual, lack of Utility
M+:
-In every case, Moonkin is better
-Very hard to be competitive against other Melee's, nothing to explain
-3Min Timer without Incarn is a really big dissapointment especially here in M+ where you put this Timer between Boss Fights on large Mob Grps and you end up pretty trash for a use of a Big Timer...
-As usual, lack of Utility:
If Feral has such a lack Utility to his Grp, than he should have just more uniqueness as a Melee besides the 30% Speed like for example the old Balance Affinity with 5 yards extra as baseline and Shapeshifting 5 sec 100% avoid á 30sec
Raid:
-We are ok on DPS, but i miss the absolute Single Target power in exchange for the bad AoE.
-For a Single Target Niche Class we lack on short "burst tools" on one target.
-As usual, lack of Utility
M+:
-In every case, Moonkin is better
-Very hard to be competitive against other Melee's, nothing to explain
-3Min Timer without Incarn is a really big dissapointment especially here in M+ where you put this Timer between Boss Fights on large Mob Grps and you end up pretty trash for a use of a Big Timer...
-As usual, lack of Utility:
If Feral has such a lack Utility to his Grp, than he should have just more uniqueness as a Melee besides the 30% Speed like for example the old Balance Affinity with 5 yards extra as baseline and Shapeshifting 5 sec 100% avoid á 30sec
1 Like
I came to this forum to see if I was the only one feeling frustrated. Nice to see its not only my experience.
I remember progressing with my guild on HC Garrosh Hellscream. A super fun single target fight, where I could top the damage with good timing of savage roar and bleeds. Knowing feral well, I have seen many expansions where you can, as a semi casual, still earn your raid spot in guilds. But in BFA, no build really helps me feel useful enough in M+ or raids.
One interesting thing is that I started leveling a retridin. And oh my... in blue gear my retribution paladin does the same damage as my 360 feral, and more. It just feels sad to be honest. At 360 ilvl, shouldn't you be able to pull more than 7-9k DPS? I really hope the next patch will change things<3
I remember progressing with my guild on HC Garrosh Hellscream. A super fun single target fight, where I could top the damage with good timing of savage roar and bleeds. Knowing feral well, I have seen many expansions where you can, as a semi casual, still earn your raid spot in guilds. But in BFA, no build really helps me feel useful enough in M+ or raids.
One interesting thing is that I started leveling a retridin. And oh my... in blue gear my retribution paladin does the same damage as my 360 feral, and more. It just feels sad to be honest. At 360 ilvl, shouldn't you be able to pull more than 7-9k DPS? I really hope the next patch will change things<3
1 Like
I mean people seem to think feral is just bad everywhere, if you put a good feral with good traits in a tyrannical m+ grp where they can unload on the boss it’s nuts. I’ve never personally lost on a dps race on a boss, easily pulling 16k+ on 2+ minute fights.
Feral has strengths, it’s just that none of the raids (maybe except Fettid) are designed around those strengths, they all centre around aoe/split dps with dots/high mobility/low uptime. Ferals just kinda suck in those.
aoe finishers are appreciated, but it will do very little because RIP just doesn’t do any dmg, so the aoe finisher also doesn’t do much
I don’t know why blizzard cant get it straight…
In my opinion there is burst aoe and slow sustain aoe, but it should normally mean that the slow sustain should be higher dps, lets say after 10 seconds of sustaining it, but actually the burst aoe from some classes never end and the aoe dps from dhs for example is just ridiculous
3 Likes
I am willing to bet that you deliver that kind of boss dps because
- You have Incarnation
- The fight is relatively short, so Incarnation shines through on the dps meter.
Feral rotation with SR and DoT snapshotting was gorgeous.
The problem is too many other specs have very simple rotations.
Answer is to Increase skillcap for other specs. Better for game.
At this point I expect they are trying to get as many off feral as possible (remember demo lock) to redesign it entirely.
Yep, what’s your point? Niches are what let some classes succeed. Burst DPS is a niche, as is burst aoe, sustained aoe, sustained ST and so on.
Also I didn’t really elaborate on it but fights above 2 minutes you can still compete with some of the best dps, it’s just a case of good cooldown management / good pooling + spending / optimised bleeds etc.
bosses, aren’t the problem in Beta for Azeroth mythic plus. Sure, 40% health, on bosses that require proper mechanics, with a bad group is certainly frustrating.
Also, freedom to “unload” is also difficult, because always so much things for people to do on most bosses this expansion.
Personally, I groan if I somehow end up with a feral in my group. As mentioned above, everything a feral can do, a boomy can do better. I don’t doubt highly skilled players can make feral “work.” The problem is, most players are not that committed to making it work, and you are often left with leftovers.
Compare that with a DH, where any dummy can 1,2,3 his way to massive damage, AOE or single target.
I don’t play Feral, and I think they have gotten better. But, I feel for those that really like the spec. No one likes feeling like an unwanted step child.
I hate to disagree, and in this case, I don’t have to.
Regrettably, outside of some niché situations druids have never been in as worse of a place as they are now, in the whole history of Wow.
Mostly, they can compete, so I guess you could call it “balance.”
But, I agree, for almost any situations, tanking, healing, damage, ranged, pvp, whatever, for about 99% of those situations, there is some other class better than a druid.
I guess that is a little hyperbole.
healers are Ok in m+, as are boomies.
boomies, and ferals are Ok in pvp.
Guardians are Ok for the most base of pve situations. Sure, you can do some low keys. But, juxtapositioned against others, and you see some serious limitations.
Resto pvp? Low water mark achieved. We should get an achievement for that! =)
In summation, with high skill, druids are competitive, generally. But, with average skill (or less), we drop very fast to the bottom.
Who knows, maybe that’s the way it should be.
If only it was like that for all classes.
Nobody is expecting people to jump up and down and cheer whenever a feral is applying to your group, but to be honest i’d much rather have a feral than a marksman hunter, elemental shaman, enh shaman, prot warrior etc.
Also I don’t think anyone is arguing that feral is better (or even comparable) to DH, obviously you can be a braindead monkey and still outdps a feral as DH, all i’m saying is that feral is being portrayed here as literally irredeemable. My point is that it isn’t. There are niche dungeons and raid encounters where ferals do pretty good (but again, not better than “tier 1” dps).
I’ll also agree that for mythic plus the trash is 99% of the time the bigger obstacle, and that feral struggles on that front compared to other dps, but this is why when I set up groups I try to have 2 solid aoe dps (dh/mage/boomkin/arms warrior/bm hunter) etc and 1 “pure monkey dps” (feral/assa/warlock) etc. It just tends to even out all difficulties in the dungeon rather than just half of them.
My only main point here is feral does have redeeming qualities, currently not many of them fit the game in it’s current state and they aren’t quite good enough to beat everyone else in those niches but they certainly aren’t useless.
Yeah, through we prepared to be weakened a little but it now seems too much, even with the later patch. I just hope that BLZ would care more about the balance methods, treat it seriously.