Feral in M+

everything below 20. and even 20s are considered low this time as they should be more around the level of 17-18

according to this forum everything below 45 is considered low.

20s are not low… it is the highest content the game wants you to do. Above that is just unbalanced fluff.

that is also because feral is not anymore a spec that needs targets to live a very long time.
This is due to primal wrath instantly proc Rips dmg, at least 50% of it. Therefore targets really only need to live 10-15s to do quite solid dmg.
Of course feral is great at prolonged sustained aoe dmg but actually this scenarios are not even existing in 25 keys because even there the trash mobs die rather quickly and won’t live 2 mins.

If you want burst dmg you could also spec convoke which is certainly viable for those situations you cannot get great value out of incarn.

One problem dot specs have in general is that no matter what, the dots are just gone when the target dies and lost its complete value.
They fixed it with assa rogue doing execute dmg for their bleeds, which is an amazing solution. It begs to question why they didn’t do it for Affli and feral respectively as well.

it isn’t really that bad anymore. The difference between ST and AoE build is some more energy regen and Swarm instead of incarn. It was much worse before.

Please don’t come here and make claims unless you know what you’re talking about.

ToW doesn’t “instantly proc Rips dmg, at least 50% of it”. It consumes up to 4 seconds of Rip damage on the target and applies 50% of it immediately. That means, if Rip still has 10 seconds to run (entirely possible during Incarn), only 4 seconds is consumed and half of it applied immediately, leaving the remaining 6 seconds to be overwritten.

Of course feral has more burst damage that it did in SL, but let’s not pretend it can compete with front-loaded specs like havoc, fury warrior, and even BM hunter (which is not as front loaded as the other two but can still apply damage faster than feral).

Convoke has never been strong in burst AOE because it preferentially applies DoTs and bleeds that won’t tick for their full duration. The primary reason to take it in M+ is for burst damage on big, solo trash mobs on fortified week or for burst damage on bosses on tyrannical week (after you’ve manually applied all DoTs because it won’t overwrite them).

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ye and you come here and want to claim mobs need to live 10mins before ferals can do dmg?
it is bs that mobs need to live very long to do dmg.
it still means lots of rips dmg is applied instantly considering how much you are pressing wrath
you can run low keys and still have high dps, so the claim that feral is garbage in low keys is simply not true.
nobody said it has equal burst with those 3 specs that press 2 buttons for instant dmg. but even in an 11 key, the mobs live long enough to pump dps with dots.

maube you should follow your own adive and dont post if you have no clue?
convoke is certainly not used in a mob group for focus dmg.
it is also weaker for st dmg on tyrannical weeks if you can get full duration of incarn. maybe if you luck out on convoke it will be stronger.
convoke is great for applying stuff which makes it somewhat bursty, at least the most feral has to offer and is a solid choice for non fortified or lower keys.
whatever you can do what you like anyways

You’d better provide a link to your RIO page if you’re going to accuse me of having no clue. I was in the top 50 ferals in the world last season. How about you?
https: //raider. io/characters/eu/ravencrest/Nylendis

im doing high keys and im falling behind dhs ,bms and fire mages, sometimes if im lucky i pull 1.3m aoe with convoke and sometimes barely do 400k and convoke is mandatory and its 40% chance you get lucky with it. rng as heck. st is decent but overall feral needs buffs everywhere , aoe st and survivability no question. im fully bis geared and im pushing for 0.1% . hopefully we see some changes

this

is the main problem atm

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I agree on DH and fire mage (seems like fire has been buffed back into the meta and havoc has never left it), but the highest you’ve done with a BM hunter is +23, which isn’t particularly high. At that level, the trash still doesn’t live long enough to get a good comparison, especially on tyrannical weeks when packs are pretty much dead by the time BM’s CD window is over.

I agree 100% with this. Poor survivability seems to be the main thing affecting my dps. If I live the full duration of the pull, I can do decent numbers, but if the tank pulls big enough I’m usually the first dps to die.

This is not entirely true. DH and warrior, yes, but ret and BM both hit like wet noodles outside of their CD windows (the days of BM doing consistent damage went with the rework). Ret benefits from having burst damage on a one minute CD, but its ST is weak in AOE build, which puts people off taking it. Also, prot pala being in a lot of very high keys means there’s no reason to take an overall middle-of-the-pack dps of the same class.

Yes, feral needs buffs - I’ve never felt as squishy on my cat as I did in the keys I did last week - but making direct comparisons with specs that have different damage profiles seems pointless when those damage profiles matter less and less as keys get higher and trash lives longer.

So let’s just look at averages from the highest M+ keys and look at every single M+ guide out there. Every single guide places feral as a B- or C tier class (C tier is the worst tier). When you look at logs from top M+ runs and average them out, you’ll find Feral at the highest keys is actually one of the weakest DPS (very often 3-5 from the end).

So the numbers show us Ferals deal an average of 188k - 190k DPS at the highest keys. Where DH does 250k+, Warriors 220k, BM Hunter 230k, Destro 230k. I think there was only 1-2 specs outside of Feral that did under 200k DPS on average in high M+ keys. 50-70k more DPS is not a small amount, thats 20-35% more. That is a HUGE margin on average.

You could argue that these “Top M+ Ferals” are not playing optimal or are noobs or something and that’s why their DMG is low, but I would say that if the average is so low it might mean the rotation is too hard, the spec is having problems elsewhere and something should be changed. Maybe buff DMG, maybe make the rotation easier? Maybe make Rake apply to 3 targets making cleaving even easier? Maybe make FB deal some small AoE DMG by default to targets with Rip without the need for a talent? Maybe increasing survivability would help? Maybe moving Swarm + Unbridled to the class tree would help giving you 1-2 extra points in your spec tree? There are a ton of potential solutions Blizzard could look into, they just need to look into it.

Im rank 50 eu and rank 70 world atm , survivability is issue why i cant push myself to do damage since everything can just oneshot , we need damage and survivability buffs and fast

yes

no

would like that we got 2 so far but having more rakes with 1 global would come handy

we have a talent for that but they decided to cap it, i suggest uncaping aoe from bite talent.

Alooooooooot trust me

they should yes , druid tree itself needs a rework imo, talents like predatory swiftness should be baseline not a talent in the first place, having to pick boomy and other useless spells to get to astral influence is so punishing wasting 3 points to get to 5 yard extra range, well honed instinct cost 2 points , should just merge it into 1 instead of putting 2 points into 1 talent that is also nerfed. if they fixed that we could have also had heart of the wild and dispell, hibernate as choice in mythic plus

for example survival instinct is 3 min cd and lasts 6 seconds meanwhile shamans have astral influence that is 1.5min cd and lasts for 12 seconds and 40% dmg reduction, how is this balanced in the first place? playing feral in high keys feels like im playing a clothie in melee

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I miss bleed oriented Feral, every expansion is the same deal. First we do great bleed dmg than despite what Blizzard says they turn it into FB spam.

So annoying.

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I loved season 1 Feral Dragonflight alot ,this season is abit meh on aoe but our st is Ok but not good

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The S1 feral was so good, a good set with a good base damage. Was one of best DPS in mm+ for one time until 2 xpac (didnt play legion)

But they destroyed him in S2. Reduce proc frequence of free ferious bites + bad set. No synergies with the snapshots systems on it.

Without more buffs feral stay just bad. Even with a 80+ parses in +20 i stay far behind firsts dps…

I hope than DH and rogues takes the same nerfs in S4 that feral in S2 (do you says that i dreaming ? I didnt hope a buff i have lucidity no ?)

From Trash To God and back to the Trash. Its sad…

Yea, but after Feral’s first MDI appearance, Blizzard decided to nerf our AoE again, like they did in SL (after the big PTR pull in DoS).

I dont know that story, it is linked to the S4 sets ?

Psy and some friends tested out the feral set by pulling the entire Ardenweald zone in DoS and putting every buff they could on the feral on the PTR… and streamed it. The result was massive burst AOE (as it would have been if they’d done the same thing with practically any other dps spec), players started screaming that feral was going to be OP, and the devs responded by nerfing the tier set’s damage by 65% and killing feral in M+ for another season.

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Strangely they have the same treatment in any other dps spec :x

Hate to see the same nerfs that we take in S2 on DH or rogues (oh u think im a dreaming. Yes is true.)

You’re being sarcastic, I assume. It doesn’t come across well in text.

My “don’t” was lost ^^’

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Feral just needs aoe and st buff but it mainly needs Defensive cd buff like aloooooot, if defensives get buffed we are fine , problem in high keys atm is surviving , managed to achieve 3.271 rio atm ,but keys like tides ,rise and fall on fort weeks is just abysmal nightmare to survive, top 35 world and top 22 eu as feral atm

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