Recent theorycrafting and simulations done by people on the Altered Time discord has come to the conclusion that FoF is so bad the procs are worth ignoring entirely on single target, and most of the time on two targets. You fill the gap by just spamming frostbolt more. The new rotation ends up being a ~4% gain on ST, and ~1.4% on two targets.
A quick summary of the rotational changes can be seen here:
https://i.imgur.com/iqcbqaG.png
The idea that you can ignore a core rotational element entirely and get a significant dps gain from it does seem like a pretty big design problem to me. It gets even worse when you consider that frost is one of the easiest specs in the game, and this reduces complexity even further.
This post is kind of a shot in the dark, as I don’t think mages even have a developer working on them right now (just looking at 10.0.7 changes). Please fix this though, SL necrolord was degenerate enough.
It’s a minor increase on two types of fight that are rarely encountered on their own and even then it’s a minor increase in theory only, as by being more reliant on casting, you’re opening yourself up to more dps loss when you have to move (which is a lot these days).
With PvP favouring instant cast spells to avoid being interrupted and M+ preferring an all-round playstyle to deal with various situations, it’s basically only got a place on certain raid bosses and that’s only if you don’t have to move much.
In no world can you call 4% minor. It’s a massive gain - most of the individual talents on the frost tree give you significantly less than that.
As for calling these types of encounters rare: this new rotation should be used on five out of eight bosses this tier. Hypothetically on Sepulcher of the First Ones it would be used on six, and on Sanctum of Domination it would be used on seven. I could go on, but it’s actually very common.
You can easily secure casts with shimmer or ice floes. It’s just not a problem in the slightest.
I have a sneaking suspicion that next reset top frost mages in the know are just suddenly going to get new top logs on several bosses, and it’s not because we all collectively got a lot better at the game out of thin air.
Well yeah, stating the obvious since this requires you to run a raid talent build. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be fixed though.
And you’re ignoring the fact that most of the game is not raiding and most of the playerbase doesn’t raid…
4% is absolutely nothing, especially when most of this minor benefit will be lost the second it’s not a Patchwerk fight.
Doubtful, not with the amount stuff you have to dodge, you’ll be out of charges more often than not. I personally don’t raid, but I’ve been in LFR for the story and there’s more than enough stuff to dodge, even if it’s not quite as deadly.
No one in their right mind is going to be using it, it’s not only boring but it won’t realistically provide them with any sort of boost.
If frost was easy, players would produce its sim dps in practice. Instead every other spec sh#ts on frost and its 100k sim on Terros Mythic. Keeping 100% IV uptime is never going to be easy and sabotages the viability of the entire spec in any meaningful content.
Sims already include this, it’s worth ignoring 4set entirely
So according to you in order for a spec to be easy it has to be able to maintain full simdps while simultaneously doing mechanics? That’s just complete fantasy, and there isn’t a single spec in the game that can do that.
I currently sim 96.4k, and on this weeks Terros kill I did 91.3k dps. Had some minor mistakes here and there, so basically within grasping distance of my simdps. There’s even a log of someone doing over 100k dps as frost on Terros, so maybe you need to come to terms with reality.
Obviously you can just be an ego player and not soak with the rest. But progress is what counts and there you have grey or green logs on almost every first kill. BM gets to do better damage while not grounded by rune and not being on the clock with every gcd to extend their main damage CD. I can agree that frost in a vacuum is an easy spec. But if your spec can barely cope with playing responsibly during progress, its not quite easy.
Played mechanics normally, don’t make up things to suit your narrative
And that is relevant to frost how? I progressed as arcane on every boss except Kurog. Also, what even is your point? You’re saying it’s possible to make mistakes or die on a raid boss when you’re inexperienced, so that makes frost hard? Isn’t it the same for every spec in the game?
You’ve come up with one spec that can be reasonable argued to be easier than frost. What about the 36 others? Are they hard since they can’t do full simdps/healing while doing mechanics like BM?
Just like you use 1 of your own logs to try and prove something about frost in general. It’s a fact that frost sims 100k but the 95 percentile nowhere close shows that in reality. Most other specs dont have to worry about surviving at all, due to leech, absorb, or other defensives, which trivializes their gameplay substanstially. Playing on a dummy, there are no hard specs in WoW.
Oh and even you avoiding frost on progress is great news for its progress viability? Besides that, arcane has almost the same draw backs during progress, as in the same awful defensive kit and highly conditional damage. Fire was just so bad that one of the two had to be played.
I looked at your replay, there is at least 1 rock blast that you didn’t bother to soak (at the end, probably when you saw yourself topping). Some of the earlier ones also looked close, but maybe you did step over the edge of the circle.
Okay, and? Which specs actually get close to their T29 profile simdps on Terros at the 95th percentile? Literally none of them. Not a single one. Completely useless metric.
LOL this will be my last reply to you since you’re not even trying to argue in good faith
Had absolutely nothing to do with how hard the specs are. Arcane is harder to pull off, but during that time it was just significantly stronger in both raw numbers and damage profile.
I guess you’re just not familiar with the strat where you have 4-6 ranged stay max range for the mythic mechanic? The ranged staying out don’t have to soak rock blast because the damage is manageable anyway, so me doing even one is a bonus for the team.
That mechanic and the soak do no happen at the same time? I guess this kind of rationalizing is required to justify tunneling. And alter time lets you soak even if you really do want to stay behind.
It is not harder to pull off, as you have breathing room after a burn. They are both still terrible tho.
Every other spec? Don’t you have eyes in your head? Every other spec is within 5-7k of their simming performance. Frost is 22k behind. Ohhh people are just terrible at the easiest spec in the game!
His logs are public and he even admitted to not soaking by deflecting to a different mechanic that happens after it. The keyword is tunneling, not cheating, which is the standard for every log player. But great to see that you are paying attention.
You’re still doing frostbolt-flurry-lance-X, and most of the time you will have a FoF for that lance. The combo is static though, so whether or not you have a FoF proc doesn’t make a difference. It’s also not worth using FoF procs outside of the combo. So you’re still using FoF coincidentally, but you can entirely ignore it since it doesn’t change your rotation in any way. I guess a better way to word it would be to say “ignore FoF”.
The new rotation actually ends up having slightly higher 4-set uptime (~3-5%) due to more consistent proc generation.
