I would ignore irrational people, that’s how I deal with them.
I don’t need a game to artificially gate me. I play it as long as I’m having fun, not as long as it keeps feeding me virtual cookies. If I’ve beaten the same challenge 20 times and I still need items from it, then it’s garbage design.
But if that grind is not there to get said items, then the game becomes worthless for many people and thus the game dies because everyone and their auntie has become fully geared, with all enchants/gems etc.
Having that level of RNG involved in the dropping of items, is there to prolong the game and of course to keep you and everyone else going back for more, if that is something you want to do.
If it’s not something you want to do then having a game, where there is an RNG system is not for you.
But basing on your character & current achievement progression, it’s something you have put up with and thus you’re still invested in said trash game 
Yeah, I grind M+ even though it stopped being fun long ago because I need the gear for raiding. We also asked all our members to do the same (some of whom hate M+ more than I do).
Our love for raiding together outweighs the suffering of the M+ RNG/grind fiasco. That’s all.
I know personally, once I’ve got the gear to not have my Warlock being declined for Heroic content, I won’t really be pushing anymore M+, as I don’t want to do anything Mythic raiding content, as I don’t want to deal with some of the people that you encounter.
I’ll probably move onto getting my characters geared up and maybe try my luck with getting the legendary axe each week.
But I think we all have our goals/limits based upon the content/systems involved within the games we play.
You didn’t get called any of those…
Dude just says forum is an echo chamber and not being part of the echo can often get your replies flagged.
Thats you. And me. But apparently, from all the whining going on… its not what most people think…
And a loot system for all has to unfortunately cater to most people. Not just you and me. So… PL it is? 
Im confused. It has been WoW since 2004 (and even Everquest) and FFXIV today. Many iterations of many systems have existed, all to artificially gate you so that you play for longer.
And you are still here. So that is wishful thinking at best, naivety at worst.
Doesn’t mean I can’t keep pointing out that RNG gating is disgusting. Plus gearing has become a lot faster so it’s working.
I mean I have you can read the posts I made above that go into the mathematics.
Given your affinity with ignore facts I’m not surprised you missed it
If it makes you feel better by all means pain an image of me in any light you desire. I was hoping for a real discussion about the nature of the current loot system perhaps an exploration of the psychology and the emotional cost tied to seeing the rolls Vs it all being hidden but sadly I don’t think that will happen
It is disgusting, I agree with you 100%. But it has nothing to do with the choice of loot system. Its independent from it.
I wonder if that is because of crest system or GL.
Either way, its irrelevant. Because gearing up this fast is Blizz design 100%. Weather you agree with it or not.
Therefore its irrelevant what system you choose. The amount of gear you receive is Blizzards design. Regardless of the system.
And if you try to cheat how much gear you can get they will try to do something about it. Like not allowing you to trade PL loot.
So if its their decision anyways, then why choose the system that allows for drama? Its masochism at its finest.
I think that’s terrible. I get why people feel they should but it seems like a recipe for burnout and lack of enjoyment of the game in general. There is no way where you can simply decide as a group you stop with that requirement and accept progress may be more slow, but also more enjoyable?
It’s not a requirement, just a request that benefits the whole group. People usually have time to play individually every week and M+ can be pugged without scheduling. Getting stuck on a raidboss which could be beaten with more gear will burn out people much faster and once the roster falls apart we may as well cancel our subs until the next patch when people come back.
Need is the “I really want this transmog” button in pugs tbh.
I see. I am genuinely sorry for anyone in that position, I’ve heard it more often. It doesn’t seem fun. And I understand it’s a request, not a requirement but yet in practice it pretty much is unless you can easily live with not pulling your weight and being fully aware of it.
Would you prefer it if M+ and raidgear would be split somehow, like with PvP gear?
No, because that would mean we’d have to farm all our gear from raids by wasting precious raid time on reclears instead of progression. It’s difficulty is tuned around the RWF groups who farm 90% of raid items with split runs on week 1, and M+ allows us to catch up to them fairly quickly -and more importantly- individually on our own time.
I think one thing that would be hugely beneficial and reduce the strain / divide is just to bring back heroic week. That one extra heroic + normal clear before stepping into mythic would do a lot to plug the gap currently filled by mythic+.
That makes sense yeah. I find it a bit odd in a way how clearing a raid taking a while was perfectly normal and expected in the past, while now it seems (to me anyway) more of a race to get it over with as quickly as possible. I could imagine that shift in mindset leaving some people rather orphaned who enjoyed that particular endgame with their guildies as their patch content for the duration pretty much.
Either way, I hope you do have fun! Enough off topic rambling from me 
The race isn’t against the raid but against the roster falling apart.
It really depends. Guilds arent racing against eachother as much as their own expectations of themselves. If your guild is content with clearing eventually then it’s typically significantly more chill, if there’s an expectation between the roster of a previous level of performance (Such as hall of fame or rank band) then it’s generally in players interest to maintain that, as one of the major factors for attracting new players to replace older members as they move on is a consistent level of performance.
Personally I find this game infinitely more fun when I’m playing with people of a similar level to me against encounters that offer a challenge. If I were to lower my expectations of myself and find somewhere else I’d similarly have to lower my expectations of others which would be a huge blow to my overall enjoyment.
I know, that’s what I actually meant. It seems like such a pressure cooker these days in a way.
Depends, I don’t think attitudes in guilds like these have really changed as years have gone on. What’s happened instead is the raiding you’re referencing is largely being replaced by more accessible forms of progression content like m+ and heroic communities. What used to require a guild no longer does for the most part, all that’s left is the hardcore end that always existed without having such a spotlight shone on it.