Fix the Gearing System Please (And M+)

Community General Discussion
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I’m sick and tired of RNG. I Just want to pick my gear, complete the newest raid content (As far as I can go) and be done. I don’t want to be spending hours getting gear I don’t need.

The only ways of getting better gear are M+ and the PVP weekly (And sometimes the Turtle weekly). I can’t play Rated PVP because I’ll just suck at it. There’s no way I’d get a good rating as a Hunter.

To make things worse, Mythic Pluses are nearly impossible to do. I joined a +11 Waycrest Manor. Tank was really undergeared Prot Pally. And the two mages were also pretty undergeared. Doing less than average DPS, having a higher RIO score than me. They were doing low damage everywhere. Single target, groups. Then when we got to the first boss, my UI bugged out. So I had to reload. Then my game crashed. Then they pulled. Came in to see everyone dead. So we go to the boss and try to kill it. Somehow a mage dies. (Yes, we are targetting Explosions, at least me and the pally are). Then another mage, then me. Might be a healing problem. But the mage leaves, followed by another, then everyone just leaves. I’m sitting here. Hello darkness my old friend.

So I decided to pug my own key. Ignoring RIO. Got a decent group. Frost Mage, Destro Warlock, Resto Druid, and Blood DK. Get in, kill the first few wave of adds fine up to the two add groups before the boss, then I suddenly die. Apparently I died to explosion which, there wasn’t any of. It was invisible. I made sure every explosion was dealt with, as did the tank. Suddenly the mage and healer die. Then once the healer comes back, they pull another group of adds. For seemingly no reason. Then the mage leaves. Followed by the healer, and everyone else.

Why am I penalized for something that isn’t my fault? I’m doing my best. The only motivation I have for even attempting Mythic Plus is just for the gear. (Because I’m raiding HC Ny’alotha with my guild)

Also, why aren’t players punished for leaving the party during an M+? With a day long debuff or something? Doesn’t matter that the party is useless or you can’t complete it on time. There’s always a time in the day to spend an hour or two going through a painful M+.

I want to be able to pick the gear I need.

It leaves me very unmotivated as a whole since there’s so much grinding and RNG involved here. I want that new mount, and at this rate, I might just buy a boost and do my gearing up through casually playing. It feels utterly pointless to even try anymore.

Speaking of trying… why did I only get two pages in my vision when I completed four bonus objectives + boss? I was quite proud of that moment, but two pages and barely any extra mementos? Or even a pet? Come oooooooooon.

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It sounds like you and the people in your group are dying a lot to causes you’re not aware of, try to become aware of those and how to prevent it. Avoiding death is the first step to timing keys! :slight_smile:

There’s always a time in the day to spend an hour or two going through a painful M+.

That’s just not true for a vast majority of people. I’d expect at most to spend 45 minutes in total forming a group and completing a key when going with a pug. But also hopefully a lot quicker than that even.

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With the timed thing. If it’s pushing a +11-+??, then you need to have the time to do that. If it’s a lower key, it should be around 45 mins, if not, bad team, and I can actually understand why players would leave. If the first group of adds take more than a minute to kill, there’s something wrong.

I hate to admit it because I kinda feel like I suck, and it’s my fault that players wipe. I just want a no-skill way to get better gear. These mages and healers had 450-460 gear.

I’ve just put up a group now for my downgraded key and I’m getting players joining who have no corrupted gear at all and a rank 4 cape? I get you want to upgrade your key, but you shouldn’t be doing it with those who take it seriously. Let alone doing it on your alts. Alts last.

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Is it an option to do M+ with some of your guild mates? Playing with familiar people makes M+ both more enjoyable and more successful.

Spending 1-2 hours in a key usually means you’re doing keys that are too high for the group’s level of experience. This is different for everyone. I’m currently at the +13 (timing those) to +14 (failing the timer by a little) stage with my group. Hopefully by next week we’ll progress to timing +14s sometimes and failing +15s.

It’s a progressive system, but that only works if you put effort toward playing with regular people (doesn’t have to be the exact same people, just players from a pool of M+ interested folks).

Paying a million gold for a +15 in time every week seems a bit excessive to me (that is almost €100), but above all, it robs you of the opportunity to improve at the game and get satisfaction from it.

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I don’t like hitting the maximum available ilvl in game then afking until something happens.

I’d rather mix n match corruptions, try out new specs and check out new ways to play the game than go to some website, sim best spec / talent for X boss, kill boss, loot mundane stat stick, play the same game for 2 years with the only gameplay change being the tier sets.

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Then just level up an alt, do something else with your time.
That’s why many players quit. Because of this sort of mentality. We’re fortunate enough to have the time to waste to even do any of that.
But I’ve got hobbies that I want to practice. I don’t want to be a sweaty neckbeard for 14 hours per day, trying to get somewhere in WoW where there’s little to no reason to do it. No offense.
I play to have fun, and it’s hard to have fun if there is, well, this sort of environment (Refer to my M+, and the RNG gearing).
All that fun is sucked out when the game treats you like this… I don’t speak for every player. I am speaking for myself here. This is just what I feel takes the enjoyment out of WoW. The problem is, the aspects of each area of the game are tied together in such a way that you have to do the content you hate. If I could get a piece of raid gear to drop every time I kill a boss (100% guaranteed drop), that’s great. I’d prefer that, because not only would I need to worry about gearing up quicker, I’d be able to reach my goals a little quicker. (For this raid, it’s Heroic N’zoth)

I also have a feeling that with these systems, it scares of newer players, because there’s so much to take in. It took me a good few months to understand every system in the end game. You have to look at it from another perspective

I do love questing (Both 1-120 and in the end game). I also like to collect good looking mounts. I’m not a big collector. And Ny’alotha is actually really fun to play. I’ve only tanked and DPS’d so far, but it’s really good this time around. Except for Maut. That must be healer hell.

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Right back at ya, a lot of my friends quit after hitting Rank 1 / cutting edge because there was nothing to do anymore. I actually quit after I hit the maximum ilvl achievable and got cutting edge, it got to the point where a good number of players I know play the start of the exp, quit, come back at either patch releases or the last patch to faceroll everything then quit again.

I’d be there along with them if blizzard didn’t introduce M+.

This system barely affects casuals, and leaves an open door to the pro players, the only place where it had real effects was in the world first race, which by the way shouldn’t be something the game is balanced around.

That’s like nerfing an entire class because one player managed to be stupidly OP at it.

The game should be made to be fun, not made so you can put a check mark on an imaginary check list.

Then by all means, do so, the game isn’t a job, it’s a game to meant to be played, stop treating it as such.

I call false, there’s a difference between wanting to get everything handed to you on a silver platter and actually have fun while progressing, granted the RNG element is indeed lame and way too big and I’d rather they address that, not scrap the whole system.

If fun is about getting gear, then there are plenty of instant gratification games that shower you with loot at every corner, diablo 3 comes to mind.

Herioc N’zoth is easily killable with 445 ilvl and no corruptions at all, the fun is in the challenge, not overgearing the encounter.

I do look at it using other perspectives, which is fun vs optimization, the gearing system values fun, exploration and mix n matching, a new player doesn’t know the EV does 23.6% increase dps, IS does 13.2% increase dps, streaking stars is 5% increase dps, this 15 ilvl lower ring does 1.2% more dps ( numbers are for example ) but a new player does get excited when something procs, they see nice effects and so on.

If I didn’t think of other players I’d demand super tuned hardcore boss fights that last an hour or so with nearly no margin for error, a true boss fight I’d enjoy was Kil’jadin prenerf ( look at the method video on it ).

I’d also demand 10 masks horrific visions, and harder mythic dungeons ( mechanically, not numberwise )

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You missed the part about gear being tied into content that is unenjoyable. HC Ny’alotha isn’t possible for my guild (No offense guildies) without better gear. Not everyone has the time to play everyday in my guild. (Because of parenting, or other unrelated stuff). We also only have two raids nights per week. It is a matter of practice most of the time. I think all bossues up to N’zoth can be done with low ilevel gear. But the gear definitely helps. I suppose.

I dunno. This is kinda where I’ve considered joining a guild which does it daily. And I’d be willing to transfer realms. The guild before the one I am in now, barely got through Heroic Ashvane previously, which, on top of the drama, I decided to leave.

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But why should they make the bosses easier ( by making you overgear them so you can brute force through ) just so you can enjoy them?

That’s like buying a game and expecting to be able to finish it no matter what, the purpose of these things is to have fun doing them and overcoming the challenge.

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DPS checks. Which N’zoth has to my knowledge? (Beserk timer)

I’m not able to get Best In Slot gear or tier 3 corruptions. My damage atm is bordering 45-55k on my hunter, single target/cleave. The other players in the raid are doing around 40-50k, but some are doing less than 40k.

What I want in a raid boss is difficult mechanics. A bullet sponge isn’t a hard boss. Because that just makes it based around gear. I hated the guts of EP because of the DPS checks it had. It was absurd. I was topping 25k with the best possible gear I could get when I got to HC Ashvane with my old guild, and that wasn’t enough still.

I don’t mind hard bosses. It’s fun to explore and practice the mechanics, so long as it’s not too RNG based. I remember wiping an entire raid on HC Abyssal Commander (First EP Boss) because I was targeted with both a soak and a spear at the same time. Spear first then soak, and nobody could save me because it happened literally at the same time.

The bosses in Ny’aloth are good so far. I want to get into Mythic Raiding at some point, which my guild will apparently might attempt after Heroic. I’d be up for that.

Edit: There’s also the fact that, not everyone is doing optimal DPS. Because I’m able to survive most of the time (Save the small mistakes) it would help to have that extra DPS to kill the boss in a really clutch moment. That’s another reason I try to gear up.

The reason gearing up isn’t enjoyable is because it’s so random. If I push a +15 key, I don’t want a dupe item. I want something better. Last season, I did the weeklies, the mythic, and the Warfront. I got the same gloves 3 times in a row. You have no idea how frustrating it is to get useless gear. Let alone the fact Azerite gear only drops from raids. Even then, the traits are @ss.

Edit 2: I just remembered the reason why I’m so angry about this gearing system. Imagine being stuck in +9 keys, Normal raids. And being unable to progress because you get some useless gear? There are DPS checks involved in every raid tier (And Mythic Plus, and probably PVP). Being penalized by being given a dupe or gear that is worse is demoralizing. That’s what I felt during 8.2 and its entirity. That was one of the aspects of the game that made me quit. As a result, I was heavily undergeared coming into 8.3.

That leads onto the fact that if you miss one week, you are also punished. This system would be acceptable if all gear was scaled back down to 8.0 levels of gear, along with the end game content as a whole. This way you only need to grind for gear you need, with less RNG involved. So when you get BIS or a small upgrade, you don’t have to wait very long for the next upgrade or even upgrade at all. Some people just want to enjoy a long vacation every now and then with their family. Then a new patch comes out during that vacation, and look at that. Everyone is undergeared. Gonna take weeks to do that now isn’t it? By the time that person has geared up, there’s still a lot of obstacles to tackle. Completing the content. Finding players to do that content with to begin with. It’s such a stupid system.

I don’t enjoy Classic WoW, but that is one thing I can really respect about it. The fact you get one piece of gear you need and be set for the entire patch. And you’re viable to complete the end game content regardless of what gear you have. (At least this is what I heard from other classic players. Could be wrong)

It’s hard to decide whether I should stop playing WoW to pursue hobbies and play other games. Or whether I should just play WoW? I suppose you just play WoW all day which is why you justify the RNG gearing system. It’s only a problem to the developers if you suddenly complete the game and unsubscribe for the next few months.
These RNG systems are obviously in place because of monetization. I guarantee that players would come back if that RNG was removed. Oh, and if there was catch up if late to the patch. (This is why seasonal and RNG gearing is stupid. Imagine coming into BFA with 370 gear and can’t raid because you need 430 gear)

There is no justification for keeping this awful RNG system any longer. There’s an abundance of things to do in the game. There’s no shortage of content. The problem is, you’re so focused on this end game content that you can’t see any other content. You may be a long time player of 12+ years, I don’t know. I literally started playing WoW during late 8.1. The way the systems are now, they don’t take into account new or returning players. It also ties into how un-alt friendly the game is. I’d like to get my Druid to the point that my Hunter is at (Doing 40-50k) but it hasn’t got all the essences, all the gear, or even the heart of azeroth to do this content. It’s so far behind that it is utterly pointless to try to gear it up.

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