But her story is no longer their story at this point. All indications are that she will be redeemed one way or another and either return to her high elf roots or ascend to godhood or some other nonsense. Why should they care, apart from nostalgia?
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…that she basically was the sole relevant Forsaken for quite some time is exactly the reason I added her to the list of thingt that should make the addon ideal to focus on Forsaken stuff, when it doesn’t. If she wasn’t, bringing her up wouldn’t have made much sense.
…oh well, look who I am talking to about sense…
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Not really a nonsense. Sylvannas ascending to godhood is one of the things on the list she deserves.
Both of you forgot to quote “Is this another, “Blizzard story telling is crap because they are not telling me what I want to know”???”. Seems like it is.
[quote=“Feltwist-twisting-nether, post:23, topic:311058, full:true”]Sylvannas ascending to godhood is one of the things on the list she deserves.
[/quote]
Er…have to disagree wholeheartedly with you on that.
Also, the thought of her being redeemed is ridiculous in my humble opinion. I would never be able to take that seriously for even a moment.
And what is so horrible about voicing an opinion againt the storytelling? Why the need to police and shut people up like that? A forum is for voicing opinions and debating, isn’t it?
Her redemption shouldn’t even be necessary, in the Horde perspective, if only BfA wasn’t such an unholy mess of bad creative decisions. Afrasiabi’s final turd on the product one could suppose.
Heck save Baine and Saurfang she didn’t really do anything to the Horde and both of them have well earned it beforehand given the information she had. The story could still easily be spun, as a lone wolf syndrome of trying to deal with huge problems alone. (Aliance and Horde are built on mutual enimity so the Aliance perspective really doesn’t matter since she is meant to be one of their chief enemies, when everythign is as it’s supposed to be)
Hey, its completely fine to disagree.
It’s fine that you think that her being redeem is ridiculous. In my opinion, I think she deserves the best and she is trapped into her own problem of being undead. That’s what I think at least.
Its not horrible to voice against story telling. Problem is that people claim EVERYTHING IS TRASH, and that is what I ulimtately disagree. It’s surely not ideal.
So how about providing a positive perspective? As I have seen you until now, you seem like a troll, much more intent on making fun of the people here than in actually making an argument. You aren’t makiing a case for why Sylvanas’ story is well written, you just state it and then make fun of the people who react to that. You don’t create topics with ideas you would like to see, you go into negative topics and comment on them being negative.
I am quite certain we have a negativity bias here. And I am sure that that makes us overlook some good things. But that’s what we need other perspectives for, to show us what we are missing, because of our particular perspective. And it needs to be in a way that’s not designed to alienate us, if it is supposed to have any effect.
I mean, sure, I certainly included my negative outlook in the staring post here. But the topic itself is an invitation to speculate on ways they could include the Forsaken in this addon, or what big thing could be around the corner that would make it worthwhile to keep their story out of it right now.
That’s not what you did, though, is it? You saw my negative outlook and jumped on something that might have been related to that. In this case completely missing the point of the part you jumped on, I might add.
Because in 90% of cases, I can pretty much keep replying “Go back to lore and read more”. I wish “making fun” is what I do. I’d rather call it a disgust how people perceive things in a superficial way.
Everyone is a troll if they don’t agree with majority, right?
You certainly are, good Sir. Sadly that was exactly the response I was expecting.
Oh well, have a nice day. I won’t be tempted to reply to you any time soon.
Have to keep in mind what kind of medium this is. If things in the game requires you to go out of your way and explore other media in order to make sense, is the storytelling in the game itself any good? The Matrix films played with the idea of transmedial storytelling, and as a result there were many things in Matrix 2 and 3 that simple moviegoers did not understand – and perhaps that is why these films are viewed as being much worse than the original film.
I would say that the overall story in World of Warcraft is trash these days. There were very few things I liked in Shadowlands, but from the top of my head I can mention at least 3:
- I played the Bastion intro twice – first time as a Blood Elf Rogue and second time as a Draenei Priest. When asked where my character was from, I only got one prompt with my Blood Elf: Azeroth. With my Draenei I got three prompts: Azeroth, Draenor, Argus. I thought this little bit of attention to detail was neat, even if it had no impact on anything else.
- I liked that we got to pick an owl servant. Again, very small thing that probably didn’t make any difference whatsoever, but it was still a choice.
- There was a quest in the Vampire-land where you got to forge a letter to get inside some area guarded by a big stupid guy. Forging the letter was kind of fun in and of itself, though I was quite saddened by the fact that the big dumb guy didn’t read the letter afterwards. The quest design itself was at least a little bit creative, even if the ending was poor.
I’m sure there are more positive things I could point out, but the problem is that the positive things are so small in scale in comparison to the bad things. Take the Forsaken, the titular subject of this thread… what is their story about nowadays? Sylvanas is kind of detached from them, I think. Do the Forsaken want revenge? Do the Forsaken want to see her reinstalled? We just don’t know. Unless that detail is written in one of the many lorebooks they’re pushing. I don’t think it’s right that you as a player have to go out of your way to purchase and read up on the lore about the game from other media sources when we not only have to pay for the expansions but also pay to maintain a subscription to the game.
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Not to point out the obvious here. Again. But you’re exactly falling into his hand as to why precisely he and others are annoyed by the whole story. You can say “Go back and read the lore” as much as you care until your fingers start to hurt (or throat becomes raw if you prefer shouting it) but no one will get your point if you don’t define it.
Make a case. Not keep them vague. If you are so concerned with those who seem determined to ignore you at every point and it is what prevents you from making a discussion and instead favour trolling everyone else, then it shouldn’t be surprising that you’re getting the responses you have.
Just sayin, man 
Few examples that i’ve seen of your posts that could use questioning:
- Why should we be appreciative of Sylvanas and her actions? Why does she deserve ascension?
- Why shouldn’t we challenge the fact that we don’t know the stuff that we should know?
I’ll grant you that a story needs time to develop, yes, and therefore not everything should be set in stone from the get-go otherwise it will get boring fast. But at the same time, what are the things in the present and things to look forward to in order to keep us hooked in the meanwhile?
You can give as much examples of other productions as you like, but they all have hooks to keep the current audience captivated and clamouring for more for a reason, which is something that currently has been/is disgruntling a lot of views in this story.
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I’m worried that Calia will become the new leader and will change the Forsaken into lovely creatures who bake for orphans and travel around Azeroth to make it a better place. Blizz will detroy them, no doubts about it.
This are the Forsaken I love:
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You can’t have those while they are supposed to be part of an international coalition like the Horde, though.
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I see your point. They always seemed to me like an outcast and that’s how I’d like them. Totally separate.
Yeah, this is my fear as well. I am sure the Forsaken will be drastically changed in some way, but I hope not in a way that will make them entirely separate completely.
They have a goal, and they have ambition and drive to resolve in their nature as the Undead whose lives were taken from them. The fact that they’re constantly on the edge and on the backfoot to finding a resolution is what makes them a big plus.
The fact that we have seen so many facets and possible answers to their dilemma doesn’t automatically mean they’re capable of only doing deprived acts of ceaseless murder and general edgyness. Shouldn’t mean they suddenly become lovey-dovey Undead angels either.
It is a pretty big concern given Zelling and other such oddities. The Undead of Warcraft have always been described, as fundamentally different to the living, burnt by the light and without any real inhibitions. Calia notably goes against literally all of that. And if Derek is anything to go by it’s infectious.
I would say that my biggest concern is that they make the Forsaken too human, because that’s exactly what they’re not supposed to be.
I do see that problem, but I have a bit of a hard time seeing the alternative right now. I mean, pretty much everone has been humanized by now. And the Forsaken certainly aren’t in the shadows anymore, where their twisted actions might go unnoticed, they are very much on the watchlist of… well, everyone. Getting rid of the factions altogether and freeing the story up for smaller conflicts might be a way to keep some of their menace, as long as they don’t antagonize the whole world again. Maybe if they were on the defensive for one, aganist cruel Lordaeronians, their darkness could have the right kind of contrast to fit?
But under the current setup… I expect their uniquess to mostly be used for comic relief. They can be the pet crazypeople of the Horde, that make funny and totally exaggerated remarks, but apart from that, I don’t see much of their identity being retained…
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Pre-BfA one could argue they were the most powerful member of the Horde going by their territory and ability to replenish troops on demand. Something even Garrosh had to respect to a degree, but i digress.
As it stands the Forsaken don’t really have anything left and have hit the rock bottom. They don’t have their capital, major characters, thematic integrity or many places to go storywise, which don’t betray the fantasy of the race.
When I think about it, it is almost as if the Forsaken would be served best as a seperate faction opposed to the living with the ultimate goal of turning the world into some sort of plague land ruled by the most cunning and powerful undead. Kinda like Maldraxxus and its houses, but minus the death knight theme.
Because being undead, the Forsaken just don’t seem to fit in with the living anywhere, Horde or Alliance. Because being undead is fundamentally different from being alive, and undeath can apply to all races - it is actually a state of being, when you think about it, not a race.
Ignoring Sylvanas and her dark rangers, for a moment, the Forsaken are all former humans raised into undeath. Perhaps, a future expansion could revolve around the Forsaken finding a way to raise dead without the help of Sylvanas’ valkyrs and include other races in order to attempt to make their very own third faction that way - to wage war against the Alliance and Horde, of course, because…well, it’s World of Warcraft, right?
As is being said, they currently seem to have lost their point and purpose altogether. They now appear weak and completely lost without Mama Sylvanas, her dark rangers and valkyrs. This doesn’t sit well with me personally at all. Yet, as it stands, they are nothing much without her.
I would agree with this, if not for the storytelling potention that would pass up, for example between the Forsaken and the Blood Elves, who had a good relationship since effectively TBC, before the Blelves even joined the Horde,
As for the current state of the Forsaken i agree. The problem here is that they always were unambiguously Sylvanas’s organisation. It always was defined, as the followers of Sylvanas specifically. They could have had a story about outgrowing her, but too little too late for that. Would have been interesting, if we saw some Forsaken try to follow her into the Shadowlands to, at the very least get a few answers.
Going forward only good way to continue for them, which i see is to have a belief system around what they believe she stood for and resolve the idea, with the actual character sometime down the line, when her absence from the spotlight makes the playerbase’s hearts grow fonder once more.