Forsaken story in SL?

I would have thought that this addon would obviously have a bit of racial storytelling for the Forsaken. I mean… the guys are undead. how much closer to death-themes does it get? And there is an army of relatively stable “good” undead around, that are great at sticking souls to bodies without needlessly twisting them further. Oh, and let’s not forget that everything is about fricking Sylvanas, and that the Forsaken are supposed to be in the process of redefining themselves. So I don’t think it was much of a stretch to expect something to happen here.

Well…for now it certainly hasn’t. Calia had a bit of a random appearance, and that was all. And with 8.3 having become increasingly less likely, with delays and priority shifts everywhere in the addon… is there room for it? The rest of the main plot seems pretty clearly setup. Stop the random bad guy from using the McGuffins zu do bad guy things, save Anduin, and use Sylvanas’ doubts along the way. The Sepulchre of the First Ones doesn’t exactly sound like a location that would have much to do with the Forsaken anyways. So…

…Nothing Forsaken is happening this addon, is it?

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I think this eloquently highlights the problematic nature of telling the story through a select few VIPs. Like you say, the story has been revolving around Sylvanas yet we don’t really have a clue as to what the Forsaken has been up to in her absence. It feels like there was supposed to be more to the story. Like a rebellion from within. Was there not a group of Forsaken that was betrayed and murdered by Sylvanas? For someone who has been the advocate for freedom, Sylvanas doesn’t seem to appreciate the notion of free thought. This could have lead to a cool clash between the Forsaken and their leader… but it never happened. The story simply paced too fast and now it’s too late. We get Calia instead who is awkwardly inserted into the story here and there where it doesn’t feel like she has any relevance.

Sylvanas was emblematic for the Forsaken. If they were to separate her from the identity of the Forsaken they would have had to prepare for someon else to take over. But they didn’t. We have no character who can step into Sylvanas’ boots in that regard. Calia is not it.

The entire faction is in limbo. Good luck to Blizzard in restoring their identity!

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Its not the story they want to tell. And bloody hell, does it feel disconnected. I could imagine several storys for a number of different races and factions that could play out during Shadowlands. But since 99% of characters we interact with are entirely new and without relation to Azeroth, that isnt the case. And those few azerothian characters we do have are… entirely useless? Seriously. Replace Jaina, Thrall, Bolvar, Baine, Calia, or Taelia with any nameless new character we met during this expansion and literally nothing would change. Not a single bit. So storywise i suppose these are simply 2 lost years for us.

That meme hits hard. It’s kind of the opposite of the idea of a living world where the stories arise from context, instead of having to be forced upon it.

But I’m actually not entirely sure if they didn’t want to, or just got caught up in other stuff in this case. Especially if we are looking at a scenario with multible rewrites, and possibly a dropped big patch in the middle, the Forsaken story might just have ended up getting cut for time.

…if there is nothing coming. Which is likely, but not certain yet. They did put Calia in there, and there is likely to be some Arthas-thing coming. That could be used for Forsaken-stuff, I guess… Or the sepulcher could be buried beneath Lordaeron, tying in the Forsaken more directly… So if they discovered that they actually really wanted to tell that story, there are ways to include at least ome of it. They might just want to get SL over with at this point, though, like much of the playerbase does. It would be really helpful if they told us tat instead of trying to sound hyped about every piece of cosmic nonsense they throw at us to sell new fluff books…

I assume the same. Certainly all these characters got on this journey to have a reunion with someone dead, like Thrall did with his mom, or how Darion did with his dad. Cairne for Baine, Daelin for Jaina, Arthas for Calia (or Jaina) and Taelia… well, i guess she did have her reunion with Bolvar. Just that they didnt say anything remarkable to each other. I dont even remember what they said when they finally met. Certainly nothing important.

While Sylvanas does feature heavily i would contest the notion that this is her story, because at the moment if anything she is just buried under a pile of mystery boxes. If you disagree then you will be able to tell me a few things that i have perhaps missed.
-What does she actually want to achieve?
-Why does she seek to achieve it?
-What is her personal investment in it?
-What are the consequences of her success or failiure?
-What caused her to change her mind, at the end of SoD, after everything else she has already done?

As for the OT. I’ve long maintained the stance that without Sylvanas there are no Forsaken, because the Forsaken have always been specifically defined as Sylvanas’s subfaction of the undead. (I know that in BtS and onward Blizz started ignoring that for some reason, with Calia and Faol) Heck they could have at least used the Forsaken and her relationship with them to explore her motivations, at the very least.

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Yes, the story is to a good part about solving those mysteries. So it is about her. We don’t know who she is until the boxes are opened, sure, but that’s another matter entirely

Well, there is the group that includes player characters, though. If they aren’t Forsaken anymore, they still need to redefine themselves, and they still need story development. Getting rid of the name that is associated with Sylvanas would be one possible example of such development.

Is it tho? Sure the call to action was rescue the princesses and stop Sylvanas, however what has she done outside the cinematics, where she basically talked to Anduin and had a brief scuffle with Tyrande? Same kind of issue we notably had in BfA, except worse.

Personally I’d rather see them revisit the idea of the Desolate council since that literally was formed to act as authority, in her absence due to Warchiefing, but make it more representative of the various diverse kinds of undead, who are a part of the Forsaken and possibly introduce many more sentient ex-Scourge now that the Helm of Domination is broken into the mix. Playing up the idea of them being a tight knit community built around safety in numbers, in a world which offers them little more than enimity save the aliances they forged over the years, with for example the Blood Elves. (Keeping Calia at an arm’s length for 2 big reasons. 1) Arthas 2) Light burns them (bonus reason: The Arathi fiasco))

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That’s about all that has happened in the main plot of SL, though. So… yes, it is about her.

I wasn’t about to determine the direction of their development. I was mainly pointing out that their original themes are very strong in Shadowlands, their identity crisis is still unresolved and that this combination would lead one to expect some development. Themes aren’t gonna get more ideal to find a new Forsaken identity than Shadowlands. But they don’t seem to be getting that. And that feels wrong to me.

Really apart from Sylvanas and a few other forsaken they have never had any major story lines or growth of any kind for the forsaken. There was some in the books but that never gets transistioned to the game some no-one knows about it. Kinda like the massive and pivital story of the forsaken and human meeting before BFA. The one where Calia gets killed and ressed as a glowy forsaken and Activision left it all out of the game … all of it.

Speaking of wasted opportunities for SL here’s a few names Activision could have but did f@#k all with cause they are useless.

  • Varok Saurfang
  • Cairne Bloodhoof
  • Dranosh Saurfang
  • Tirion Fordring
  • Nazgrim
  • Varian Wrynn
  • Archbishop Benedictus
  • Fandral Staghelm

There are sooo many characters they could have put a simple little quest in saying they found peace, or moved on with their family or a hello or nod in passing.

This expansion should have been amazing with all the info and lore we could have got. But it’s so bare bones it’s laughable.

I did not say it was her story, just that the story revolves around her. Which it does; the reason we had the War of Thorns was because of Sylvanas, and the reason we went to Nagaland was because of Sylvanas and the reason we even have the Shadowlands expansion is because of Sylvanas.

I don’t think it is wrong to say that this is her story, though. Anduin and Sylvanas feel like the two most central characters at the moment. This story isn’t over until we get a resolution to Sylvanas’ character. I don’t expect it to be good, but it is long overdue. The sooner they can get this story over with the better.

This would have been neat and at this point its a “better than nothing”-kind of deal, but I can’t help but feel that it is too late. Ideally they should have propped up this council before removing Sylvanas. What we’re left with is an awkward vacuum (and I’m not just referring to Calia).

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This story is crookedly constructed and i see how it can look like it, but so far characters like Denathrius or Kel’thuzad have been much more of a driving force behind the story’s events so far broadly speaking. And altho Anduin and Sylvanas have had their moments together, in cinematics i would argue those conversations didn’t really move the story forward or reveal anything groundbreaking. The biggest thing to occur happened off screen in the patch trailer, with the domination of Anduin.

Realistically they will likely go down the Darkspear road of not having any real leader, because atm i think it’s quite clear the Forsaken fandom wants nothing to do with Calia and there aren’t really any major Forsaken characters left. To me it just seems like a natural evolution, because the Desolate Council still is a thing and a decent portion of it’s members are still alive, with a reinforced spite towards the living from being rebuked/ghosted by their living relatives.

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well I think the only zone that gives somewhat an story connected to Azeroth is aredenweld and that is even vague, offcourse there is some other former Azeroth npcs arround, but their stories are now mostly about defending their covenant and not much else, in Ardenweld you atleast have Tyrande now, so atleast we got a conclusion to that, well sort of, but not much else realy.

The issue I have with the Foresaken and SL is the fact they have already died once and were brought back to life, so they are undead. If the person died, this would mean they have already gone to the SL before right or are they brought back to life before they go to SL?

Yet supposedly if a Foresaken dies again, they go to SL, where they are reborn again to one of the four covenants or sent straight to the Maw. In theory this means the Foresaken are reborn twice and sent to SL twice in theory.

But will Calia agree to “serve” under Sylvanas? I…hope not. I see an opportunity for her to head a group of Forsaken and inspire them to be something different. If Sylvanas and Tyrande somehow end up not surviving (if they gotta go, they both gotta go for the sake of balance, you know), the better the opportunity, perhaps?

I did not mean that they should restore Sylvanas as the leader of the Forsaken. That ship has long since sailed. It’s just… there’s no one there to pick up the pieces. Ideally they should have prepared for someone else to step up to the plate before ejecting Sylvanas.

Lilian Voss and Calia Menethil are awful ‘leaders’ for the Forsaken. They just joined the Forsaken, and need to prove themselves to the others, not taking any sort of leadership position.

There can be an interm council made up of military commanders and other high ranking officials NPCs. The Forsaken haven’t really lost any named NPC other than Sylvanas and Nathanos.

Lilian Voss is not that new to the Forsaken anymore. Upon creating a Forsaken character, I believe the “old” world is still at the beginning of Cataclysm. All later expansions take place outside the old world. But correct me if I’m wrong.

But I’m not sure if she is leader material. Calia could be, though. But it could be argued she isn’t “evil” enough, I suppose. Personally, I don’t need Forsaken to be evil-like though. They could aim to be a more “wholesome” faction like the rest of the Horde…minus, perhaps, the gobs. Selfishness, destruction and corruption are just not ideal values for teamwork and for serving a common purpose.

I’d rather have Calia as Forsaken leader than Lilian. Lilian is, to me, a bit boring. Calia would be refreshing on the other hand.

I do have one wish, and that is for the Forsaken to finally have a human undead leader instead of an elf.

Having four elven led factions is simply too much elf in my humble opinion. Just my two cents.

She’s not freshly raised, but Lilian Voss refused to join the Forsaken in Cataclysm, she went on her own path.
She helped the Uncrowned during Legion, and in BFA she appeared to help the Horde for some reason.
She stated that instead of trying to stop Sylvanas from raising more unwilling Forsaken, she would help them acclimate, which is odd considering her hatred of necromancers.
And then she, a newly joined Forsaken operative became the representative of the Forsaken after she helped one newly raised Forsaken who was killed for treason? It’s very unlikely, especially as older, high ranking individuals are simply missing from the story.

Sylvannas is Forsaken as any other. Is this another, “Blizzard story telling is crap because they are not telling me what I want to know”???