Frost mage current state

Frostmage current state in Shadowlands:

After a very weak start to the expansion due to several nerfs implemented just before expansion launch, frostmage had a very rough time for the majority of the patch, being dead last in the castle nathria charts and extremely weak in M+.

As time went by, the two aura buffs we received certainly changed things, we’re not a “top of the meters” dps spec but i feel as though we’re no longer at the bottom of the table and quite good in M+ even, but theres still some major flaws pointed out since the beginning on the spec that blizzard still hasn’t looked into and its been a long time already, but since frostmages now are happy with the buffs and being playable, they dont look into requesting a change nearly as much as at the beginning simply because the spec became “Playable”.

  1. The first thing is the procs conflict and i think this is the flaw mostly pointed out by frostmages from all around, our fingers of frost and brain freeze procs are constantly fighting eachother and there are no solutions to this problem yet, especially during mirrors of torment and it makes the playstyle very clunky not to mention the potential damage that you’re losing everytime you need to throw a fingers of frost into a target that already has brain freeze, it feels horrible.

  2. The second thing is brain freeze allowing us to crit our two next spells, due to the playstyle of the spec currently, frostmages essentially always need to fire two icelances after hitting the target with flurry, but this feels very weird and the only way it provides smooth “gameplay” is at very high levels of haste, also im not sure if other people share the same feeling, but the GCD of icelances when you’re trying to optimize these procs also makes it feel very clunky, for instance:
    Fingers of frost proc -> into flurry -> into two icelances = why did it take us that long to do this combo, why does it feel so clunky? it feels as if our character is standing still literally waiting for spell queues (because thats what its doing) and it makes it not fun.

  3. Rune of power: frost is just not a burst based spec, needing to limit its movement or cancel its long list of successive spell queues through the procs, with a burst based talent makes the playstyle also feel clunky. its not like a fire or arcane mage where you feel like when you drop that rune you’re spells are gonna chunk, especially the third rune of power after the first one from icyveins when things are on cooldown but you’re still meant to use it while nothing is up, it feels very… bad.

  4. Dependancy on borrowed powers:
    Slick ice (cause standing still casting frostbolts while having a million procs is fun… not. very boring legendary);
    icy propulsion (if you need to deal with a mechanic whilst using icy veins or you’re in an M+ with icy veins up but theres no pulls going on, your icyveins and overall damage goes from hero to zero real quick, i would much rather see icyveins properly buffed and being more than a “ripoff heroism” than to have the ability to use it more frequently provided i can consistently hit targets and generate crits for its cooldown reduction. to clarify on this second one, im not saying frostmages cant do damage without icyveins, im saying that you will not do nearly as much damage as if you had icyveins);

The last time frostmages were in a good spot raiding wise (And im sure some people will debate this and tell me im wrong, but truth is you can literally go to warcraftlogs and look up statistical history) was back in Legion.

edit: even though i fully believe we’ll soon be in a very good spot, i still feel like we’re gonna shine for all the wrong reasons

Legion’s “borrowed” powers brought a lot of what should have been made baseline for frostmages and was instead turned into talents. Ebonbolt is a shadow of its legion self, Icelance cleave being a talent instead of a passive is absolutely horrible, it makes you forced to pick it, not to mention its recent nerfs because again borrowed power from glacial fragments but we won’t revert these changes after shadowlands cause no one actually properly looks into this. Chain reaction is a scuffed version of the legion legendary that again makes you forced to pick this talent and it only gives us a max of 15% extra damage really. its boring. And the damage of these icelances i feel is very weak, because it only scales off of vers, mastery has no relation what so ever to this playstyle which is an entirely different issue on its own, similar to glacial spike being so damn dependant on mastery.

all in all probably harsh criticism, but i look at how frostmage used to be before all of these borrowed powers and it makes me feel pretty bad about it.

and lets be honest, people are gonna feel like they demanded too much lately and received too much with recent aura buffs (twice) but these aura buffs not only made the spec simply “Playable” (frost really isnt that far ahead in castle nathria logs, still bottom of the table statistically) like they dont address the real issues of the spec.

Small things like storing 3 icelances like you used to, brain freeze having a higher proc rate and hitting harder rather than allowing us to crit twice from it, frost mage cleave being passive, so many small things taken over the years.

When are we getting something new and exciting? giving frostmages boring legendaries like slick ice “because you have to give us something, but we will put no passion what so ever into actually playing the spec and seeing if its enjoyable”
Ebonchill (legion artifact weapon) had more thought put into it than the entire spec put together right now, and it showed, legion frostmage was extremely enjoyable. Honestly, take a good look at what you gave us then, and what you’re giving us now by just looking at what ebonchill used to give, you’ll see what i mean imediatly. if that was baseline, even if nerfed it would make the spec a lot more enjoyable.

Being a full on, devoted Arcane mage who uses the frost spec as an off spec to attempt to satisfy people who hate arcane. I can already mention now, that frost is extremely weak compared to it’s arcane and fire mage counterparts, i would even argue arcane fare better than frost in the hands of a capable player.

The proc thing is the first thing i noticed when playing frost, first thing is you already have a proc that arcane don’t have something like “Brainfreeze” and the fact is i’ve learned to use Fingers of frost over brainfreeze… It hurts.

but also, frost feels really slow but now, i shouldn’t really talk here i have 2% haste on my mage. Lol.

Why would you ever pick Rune of power? Big streamers and known experts on frost already know that rune of power is meant for the fire spec and isen’t meant for Arcane or Frost. If you use it it’s on you. keeping uptime on rune is a dps loss. lel.

https//www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#class=Mage&spec=Frost
(add the : to http)

unless you go for focus magic which requires different stat balancing and is dependant on a second frostmage, you’re kinda… forced to mate.

I don’t argue from a raiding perspective where frost is clearly in a much better state than arcane, potentially even fire. just need a dps buff…

Wait… you don’t use procs? Isn’t that hurting thermal void and the cdr conduit?

Yes it does. I’m not using slick ice but i would imagine that the rotation would be to cast procs any time available to extend your icy veins. Slick ice will eventually reach its full potency.

Frost mages are not doing that bad really.

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Frost right now is still dogship, compare to any other class out there, yes we do dmg but we do no dmg compare to fire, 0 guilds in the world will take frost mage b4 fire, i had luck to find a guild who accepted me as frost but trust me sooner or later there will be fire mage taking my spot i am deep in mythic right now, frost need some rework atm it’s dogship proc on top of proc and u lose dmg, if u sitting still and cast stuff u do dmg as soon as u move u lose so much dps that is insane, and next thing you cast 6-7 FB and u get 0 proc that epic and ur 10 sec of IC stack is gone and ola u need to stack 5 again to start doing dmg again and b4 you know it ur 5 stacks are gone duo u need to move 2 much on fight and u had no time casting and ur luck on proc is amazing as usually and ola ur struggle to have decent dps :poggers:

What would you propose to fix those ?

  • If target is shattered, ice lance doesn’t consume fingers of frost ?
  • Then if target is not shattered Fingers of frost makes ice lance off gcd and castable during frostbolt (kinda like fire being able to fire blast during fireball)

Could be quite strong in pvp (i can see me spamming sick ice lances)

maybe i’ve expressed myself wrong… yes i use procs, part of my debate was how we get overwhelmed with the number of procs and their conflict. But the legendary revolves entirely around frostbolt, which is why i’ve debated that casting frostbolts isnt fun.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=90

It’s balanced around that and been that way since legion.

Frost has so many mobility options. All casters lose dps when moving.

the point wasnt about frostmages doing good or bad currently, we’ll probably be even better as the expansion progresses considering the nature of icy propulsion, what i wanted to point out revolves entirely around the playability of the spec and exactly what makes us stand out.

I see ur fire and u have 0 clue what i am talking about losing dps when ur moving, let me put this way, after you gain 5 stack of IC, you deal % of inc dmg, when u start moving and u have no time to cast FB and u don’t proc on any of FB u did, ur IC stack of 5 drop to 0 and then u need to get them back to 5 so you can deal dmg , and in that time you lose around 20 sec of the fight recovering. and fire has no issue to recover dps as frost do so ye ye

i see what you mean and what he means, although its true that every spec gets punished by mobility, but frost is a bit more punished.
I feel as though you could’ve worded it nicer. Fire does get punished by mobility as well.

What are you talking about? It takes like 20-30 seconds for all 5 icicles to disapear, and most of the time you dont even have 5 icicles stored because of BF and FoF procs.
We dont have mobility like casting while running ofc, but tbh if you know what you’re doing you’ll save Frozen Orb for when you have to move so you can get procs while moving and not losing dps.
I dont have any problem dpsing in fights with heavy movement like PF last boss for example. I just utilize my Frozen Orb, Blizzard and Shimmer in a way so that i will always have Frozen Orb up when i need to run arround or if orb is on CD i can shimmer cast my frostbolts.

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after you master the fights you can optimize around them its true. i think frost even has more tools to do this than fire if both specs were in a position where they pull similar damage.

Just cos I logged off as fire doesn’t mean I never play frost. I assume by IC you mean chain reaction?.. for some reason. I said frost is great at movement because you have so many free gcds to move into position, you have shimmer or blink+ice flows and you have alter time. Even if you have to walk, chuck in an IL and if it crits it gives cdr. There’s very few situations you should have to stop rotation outside of rp or los mechanics.

Although those times you do have to stop dps during IV is more punishing for frost than most specs. Frost mage is the new shadow priest, just switch out the stacking haste for cdr.

I see this dude talking about PF last boss other dude talking about alter time mobility shimmer, this is like AA meeting NGL.
Frost is dogship spec what need huge buff and a bit of rework.

Or just learn how to properly play with what you’ve been given.

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Just gonna leave this here again
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=90

O and this
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html

You may say patchwork sims don’t reflect reality but it shows how well frost is scaling when compared to the 184 sim.

Frost probably won’t get any buffs this entire expac now. Maybe nerfs when it outscales everything.