Fury - single target damage issue

Fury single target damage is weak. You can see it on Terros logs.
So, need a way to buff single target damage without buff aoe damage(for prevent too much power).
But all Fury single target ability is part of aoe.
So, I see only way is buff autoattacks.

i said the same thing in another thread. make fury THE autoattack spec. give us more AA dmg and more range on our abilitys etc since we use 2 big long 2 handers

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Fury is actually quite decent on Terros, due to movement requirements punishing casters and not mobile DPS. Then it is the fact that Terros never forces you out of melee, so you get full uptime.

(Terros logs saying that we are not weak, funilly enough)

As you can see Fury is dab middle of all DPS, we are far from bad and I would go as far as say quite strong. As we are in the spot where the outliers (the top DPS and bottom DPS) are just in ±10k reach. At worst you can call Fury mid, far from weak.

Now that said and stated. Fury warrior is not supposed to to top ST DPS by design. We are the jack of all trades. Fury does ST and AoE without much of any drawbacks, that is our strength. Consistent DPS as long as we got uptime, no matter how many targets. We can even build for burst DPS if needed.

Combine above with being one of the most tanky specs in the game and you got a very solid DPS to bring to any a raid.

Wrapping up, Fury is not in any need of buffs be it ST or AoE.


Fury could need some changes.
Like Whirlwind shoud have a softcap instead of the hardcap.
Single Mindet Fury is so weak you cant even descripe how bad that talent is.
Ravager is way to strong compared to other talents.

Stupid question:
Why are a SMF + Annihilator (2 very singletarget focues talents) so weak that AoE talents like Ravager and Anger Managment will ALWAYS outperform then even in Singletarget?

There are a LOT of small errors in the fury tree.

A lot to unpack here. First thing first, Whirlwind is softcapped not hardcapped, you might mean the meatcleaver effect, that allows you to hit multiple targets with followup abilities. The hardcap on meatcleaver is there to cement Fury as a 5 target cleave machine, yet keep us in line on bigger pulls.

I have answered the SMF question many times. You can check my thoughts and notes on the subject. The TL:DR - SMF has always been there as flavor, not really as an competing option. TG is made and set to be about 10% stronger, so to avoid the 4 weapons problem Fury would have.

Annhilator is not part of SMF in itself, and was close to be the BiS option for Fury this next tier set. It is now more viable as an option than ever. Yet, a passive is designed to not be stronger than an activated ability. Think of it more as an option to reduce APM stress, for the cost of performance. You can easily do mythic raids and m+20s with annhi build and even SMF, but it wont be optimal.

I do agree that Ravager is a tad too strong and locked in, or the other talents are a tad too weak. Mostly, it is that Anger Managment / Recklessness / Onslaught / Ravager loop is so much stronger than any other. I will admit I turn a blind eye to this, as I really enjoy that fastpaced playstyle. Yet, I also don’t believe I will ever see Odyn’s Fury buffed (Blizzard hates that ability) - so it is the best we can hope for.

The removal of it would be a lose/lose situation.

No one Fury in top 1000 on Mythic Terros. The statistics speak for themselves.
Don’t judge in you own feelings in your own raid group. In my raid I’m also top 1-3 DD as Fury, but it’s because other players are not enough good.

I did not state Fury was in the top 1000 anywhere. Statistics support my argument as stated directly. The source is even there as a copy-pasta link.

I stated Fury is dab middle, with reasoning why it is decent. Both statements are true.

Please read what was written and think context as a whole. I am pretty sure it is a language barrier problem, or you simply did not take the time. If you want to argue decent is only top 1000 worldwide, well - ehm, then ok.

Anyhow, Fury is still decent. My feelings or yours on the matter aside.

Something I have been wondering for some time now is why the fury aura has an effect for auto attack % that is -50.

I thought it might be for the off-hand attack which does half damage, but other dual wielders do not have such an effect on their aura?

Our auto attacks also deal less damage with our main hand attack vs other 2h strength users, despite us having two two-handed weapons giving us more strength.

It almost seems like titans grip is like using slower one handed weapons, more damage per hit but slower hits.

But I also just tried to compare my fury war and my frost dks auto attacks, no buffs or abilities used so just auto attacking a dummy.
Apart from weapons being different ilvl the rest of the gears ilvl is similar, war 393 dk 391.
fury dw 2h: hit 2.6k crit 5.2k (389mh wep)
fury dw 1h: hit 1.5k crit 2.9k(389mh wep)
(note Single-Minded Fury and Frenzied Flurry which increase auto-attack with 1h was not talented for this, reason for that is that I wanted to compare it’s base auto attack damage with frost dw)
frost dw 1h: hit 2.4k crit 4.8k(379mh wep)
frost 2h: hit 3.6k crit 7.4k(395mh wep)

I find it odd that a dk using 1h weps is matching fury using 2h weps in damage per hit while also hitting faster at base speed.
It is also off that despite fury with 1h weps having higher ilvl than frost dw, frost dw still hit much harder with auto attacks.

Now of course during combat fury will also be enraged which increase auto attack damage and we get more attack speed so we hit faster which makes up for it so we have good auto attack dps anyway.

But what is the point of having titans grip and wielding two two-handers if the damage is nerfed to be like one-handers anyway?
And then we have talents to buff single-minded fury back up to compensate for the nerf aimed at Titans grip?

They could at least remove the off-hand damage reduction so we deal same auto attack damage with both main hand and off hand if they are gonna keep the auto attack damage aura nerf.

Yes, in Shadowland was patch where Fury autoattacks nerfed by 40%

-my 380 frost dk has same autoattack dps as my 418 Fury (both without buffs and enrage ofcause).
-my 390 Outlaw has bigger autoattack dps than my 418 Fury (both without buffs and enrage ofcause).
It’s very sad.

If you change percentile 75 to MAX at your link, you see Fury at 4th place from bottom. You almost says everywhere that Fury is Decent. Smell like Fanboism.
Compare the best with the best. People have different level of gameplay.

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Because to do so theyd end up nerfing ur AoE damage to compensate.

Theres a reason these uncapped classes need absolute massive pulls before they can rocket numbers, and it generally comes at rhe price of the fact they commonly underperform in normalised pulls.

Dont wish for uncapped AoE, just to have ur AoE damage halved, it wont benefit you as theres like 1 dungeon ur gonna see it in (which is AA).

I think meatcleavers alot of the problem with ST.

Any buffs to fury warriors kit translates into a multiplicable buff to its AoE due to permanant uptime on meatcleaver. U cant just endlessly buff its ST because its going to end up so broken in AoE.

Unless they nerf meatcleaver and givr fury some AoE focused abilities to compensate, (or buff the ones present)

To make the whole of furys kit including ST abilities balanced around uncapped AoE would absolutely murder the specc in terms of performance tho.

Fury is more than decent.

If you look at things as they are and not the fringe cases and extreme outliers (where a whole raidteam works to push one guy up), Fury is dab-middle performance wise or higher. You can ignore 99.9% of the data, but that creates very scuffed datapoints to base your opinion on.

Fury will do the same DPS no matter the pull, that is just how it works. UDK in particular is all about kill timers and PI interactions to pump. Tradeoff for consistent and stable DPS without any requirements are the lower top-end and cheeze potential.

Why is that so? Well, as many other classes must minmax timings on CDs and externals interactions - Fury simply just does its thing. A stable DPS profile with very small swings. Now this is also a arguably a weakness on fights with low uptime, but that is cons/pros side of things.

I think we work out of two different mindsets. You think of things in maximum potential absolutes. I think of things as is for the actual population. Neither of us are wrong from our point of views, still - yours would affect the majority of the playerbase unfairly - while mine keeps them more in mind.

You do not and should not adjust numbers around the 0.01%, if that upsets the whole ecosystem and balance for the 99.9% in a negative way. Pushing Fury up, will necessary push others down. Fury is already dab-middle. So the low-end to high-end gaps would just become larger.

So even from your point of view, if you agree we are looking for balance, we should ask for fixes on the extreme outliers. That being the top and bottom performers. Not to try becoming an outlier ourselves.

Play your warrior character then speak as expert!

So, why you don’t want that your spec (Fury) be better? See at Mythic raid, Arms, both DK spec and Retri are better than Fury. All other melee plate dps are better than Fury.

Because that would bring the balance more out of whack. There are also half the specs bellow Fury atm. So instead, as I said before - bring in the outliers towards the middle (where Fury currently is), than bring Fury up and make the gaps even bigger.

Friendly reminder https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/31#region=1&dataset=75 Fury was top dog during progress, because of its stable damage profile. As you go on, bosses no longer need to be progressed, they are farmed/cheezed, that is when you see other classes shoot above Fury.

So for what Fury is - it is a super stable spec that always performs. It requires no help and will do its thing. Sadly, the drawback is that the cheeze potential is kind of low. So no gigalogs for us.

Note: This time around Fury Tier is actually a DPS increase, so we will not automatically fall as far behind on DPS when other classes got theirs. (Remember that our tier set was a 2-3% increase, while others got 10-20%? I remember)

So no need to doom and gloom. At least not yet.

Here’s an example: a person with one leg and a crutch is just as efficient, fast and enduring as a person with two legs. They tell him, let’s put a robotic leg on you, and he replies that it will be unfair to those who have two legs, because then he will be better, because even with a crutch he is already at the level and even better in places. The rest of the crutch-wielding one-legs spit at his back, as he creates the impression that they don’t need anything better than a crutch.

So I need to break that down:

  • A person with one leg and a crutch is just as efficient, fast and enduring as a person with two legs.
  • That person is at a higher level than the others with one leg.
  • Someone tells him they can give him a robotic leg, that would make him more efficient than the ones with two legs - and leaps ahead of the ones with a crutch and one leg.
  • He refuses the robotic leg, because he is happy where he is at.
  • The other one legged persons spit at his back, because they want to be victims of their own failings?

I am lost. That one legged guy refusing the robotic leg sounds like a chad legend to me. He didn’t need no robotic leg, because he already accepted his situation and owned it. Sounds like the work was put in.

Does it sound a tad weird you wouldn’t take the option for cybernetics? Yeah, cause they are awesome. Do I respect someone that would decline - then especially with such a chad reason? Hell yeah!

That madlad is the champ

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