Game is too overwhelming

Community General Discussion
42

Ok, name a few of them.

Every game that has some form of trading between players will be exploited by players for real money.

The only games without gold/currency/item sellers are those that either have those items drop very quickly, pre-defined by quests OR have no trading at all.

MMORPGs have always been like this. And always will be. Blizzard even partially encourages it with their Trading Services channel (aka “I help with XY activity for YZ gold”), which is good. It’s the same principle employed by goverments to reduce drug dealing. By making them under certain rules legal to consume with guidelines to follow for a safe consumption (see Netherlands).

Edit: That’s one of the reasons why Blizzard said in the past “we introduced the WoW token for players to have a save source to get to gold” so players buying from gold bots sellers don’t run the risk of being exploited/scammed AND to prevent such gold sellers making gains from players/the game without Blizzards agreement.

A WoW Token costs 20€. So that is basically a 30 day sub (for 12,99€) you pay for someone else that buys the WoW token and you pay roughly 7€ for the gold from the player buying the token with gold.

It is basically an exchange fee for the automation and transaction between you (the player with the cash) and the player (with the gold). 20€ so that you get your gold safely and that the other player gets 30 days gametime for free from the gold you get.

43

So you literally think any ingame currency exchange between players or the AH is P2W… got it.

Copy/paste:

Come back to me when Blizz starts selling inaccessible legendaries that you can’t get ingame, damage/defence boost auras, increased gold drop buff, etc etc etc. that give those players an extra edge over non-paying players you see in the likes of mobile games.

44

Game simultaneously has no content, but has so much to do that everyone is overwhelmed.
Can y’all pick a narrative and stick to it?

45

that’s not how p2w works you need to do a small research before acting like this here.

there are games where gold means nothing & gives no access to good items where you have to earn them by yourself.

then you use that gold to get a mythic boost which is something you normally can’t do. get your mount, a certain item like legendary etc. people keep buying shadowmourne shards on wotlk right now for example with how ? the rmt . they normally wouldn’t be able to get all those shards because they don’t play in hardcore guilds but they just buy them with money. same goes for the new legendary in retail or the mount or the highest gear. there’s no difference between selling gold so people can buy the runs and selling the item on shop. why this happens ? because this is an old game and people can do these runs with very few players so they’re always able to get boost customers. i’ve heard a boost run with 10 buyers. if you let people do the content with 15 people then of course they’re gonna do boosts. i’m not blaming players here. boost is a clever idea and should exist in the current climate but that’s just the proof of p2w. if gold ever becomes useless in wow then it’ll be a non-p2w mmorpg.
buy gold > buy boost > booster sells gold to another buyer > buy gold > buy boost and loop.
you can buy the maximum power in wow with cash without even knowing anything about the game. that’s p2w.

46

No, that’s just people like you redefining it at their own convenience for arguments sake. I’ll make sure to keep in mind that person that bought a crafted 476 ilvl item off the AH with gold is a P2W player! :roll_eyes:

47

see that’s the problem with your view. crafting is open to everyone. anyone can buy crafted items with gold or craft it themselves. mythic raid loots are not accessible to everyone, it is on the paper i can enter a mythic raid but i can’t kill it without a good guild. i can’t join a good guild without doing all the previous steps & that requires skill so there’s a WALL between an average player and mythic loots, you can pass that wall with paying enough money. crafting is again, open to anyone. doesn’t require any skill

48

I can pay someone to boost me to a high ranking in Counter-Strike. Is CS a p2w game to you?

49

Gold is available to everyone too. Er go; not p2w.

50

You could, you choose not to.
You could get good enough to do that but you choose not to. There is not wall except the one in your mind.

51

No it’s not. We need to stop setting the bar as consumers at the level of mobile gatcha games. We pay for the game + expansions. The bar should be that there is 0 pay2win. Pay2skip is p2w. You cannot compare doing almost 200 world quests to buying a wow token. I’m not angry or something, but it’s just annoying how we are lying to ourselves about what p2w means. You pay money, and you get something that you couldn’t get yourself through playing => pay2win. Also, the amount of gold that end game raiding/M+ demands is ridiculous too.

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52

I personally consider WoW to be such a game, since the gear you can buy on the AH barely makes a difference other than to allow alts to catch up. And with The War Within and Warbands it will become even less of an issue, because you can then trade purples among your Warband to alts before equipping them for the first time, rendering them soulbound then on that char.

Ok, following example. Let us say XY raid mythic run costs you 200k gold. That’s 2 WoW tokens at the moment you would have to pay. You have not necessarily a 100% chance to get any items from drops, especially if there are other participants in that group that also pay for a chance to get something.

First the item needs to drop, second you have to win the roll. That’s RNG stacked on RNG.

Even if you pay for such a “boost” there is no 100% chance you will get the thing you want.
If you get lucky, you do it one time and get your thing. That’s already a VERY small chance.
If you are unlucky, you will have to pay and run several times for the one chance to get what you want.

Either way, it doesn’t make any difference if the player bought the gold via the WoW token/gold seller or not. A player could farm 200k together for a run and pay it. A player also could have paid money instead for the same amount.

Player A invests valuable time of their life to pay for a boost.
Player B pays money (that was awarded by their job in exchange for their valuable life time) to pay for gold so they can pay for a boost.

To put it in comparison with something different. Imagine we have 2 Artists of very similar skill. Artist Ais a player who does it as a hobby, Artist B a player who does it professionally.

Artist A makes Artwork of their WoW character, they will invest a lot of freetime to get to that good looking result of their art.

Someone else pays Artist B to do the exact same Artwork professionally for them in a shorter time and on specifications given with the transaction.

Both Artists create a very similar result.

Now the question, does it make either of the Artworks “less valuable”?

There is tho. Blizzard wants you to play for it or pay others with gold to help you (which is btw. the maximum of their tolerance).

If they would sell such things right away on the Store, THEN it is Pay2Win because the Developer gives a direct way for you to achieve gear or relevant items to obtain them for money.

But they don’t. All they do is sell cosmetics (which is fine by me personally) and the WoW token (which is my personal limit, alongside the Tender bundles).

As same as you can just play and gain power by not knowing anything about the game. Especially with the vault and new upgrade system from DF S2 going forward.

I got to S2 Keystone Master in M+ last season and almost maximum gear and I still don’t know enough about the game to be considered “a well informed player”. I don’t use any of the “mandatory addons” like Weakauras. Also, I didn’t finish the raid of S1 and S2 once, S3 I didn’t even attempted yet at all.

It is today much more easier to get to good gear than ever before in WoW. Yet somehow those boosters (which make up a minority) still concern you, when Blizzard is already on giving up the grindfest to combat boost sellers.

In fact, boost sellers exist BECAUSE WoW gear is so rare. Imagine if it weren’t. There wouldn’t be a market for boost sellers then when it comes to gear.

Same for PvP rating if PvP rating wouldn’t degrade on losses.

Same for Gold if Gold would be easier to get.

It’s always the same origin story. Have a problem, find the solution (and sell it if you are greedy).

Edit: For example.

On my realm RN there are only 2 plate armor items that would be upgrades on the AH. [Mask of the Unbidden Grim] and [Insurgent Flame Warboots]. Both in summary cost like 1.060.000 Gold. In summary their quantity on the AH is 13x.

What do you think how many people are willing to pay 1 million gold for those items (with potentially unfit stats) on AH instead of playing for them? Price equally in WoW tokens is 80€ (4x tokens ca.). For that price you can buy an entire WoW DLC or even a new AAA game or several indie dev games.

On MMOGA 1 million gold costs ca 64€. A bit cheaper, I admit. Still way too expensive.

In that time you can just play a few Mythic+ keys, fill your vault or run the raid for chances + vault by now and still make somewhere an upgrade faster than for those 2 specific items I mentioned in the example.

53

this aint totaly true, yes you can work become realy good at the game and find a guild or a group to do the higest content, but there is a huge but in this.

first of all you need to get the chance to do so, and this is something that for many is an impossiblity, reasons for this can be many, play wrong spec or even class is the biggest hurdle, seond major reason is to actualy be able to gear up at a pace you need to, what again is extreamly hard if you are not the fotm of the day, you could have the higest dps, know every dungeon and raid there is, but due to you playing wrong class that others deem weak, you will not ever realy get a chance to do it, no matter how much effort you put in, your only option is to reroll, what puts many people off.

this is due to how the game is designed and how people who play work, it is an nasty combination.

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54

It’s easier to preserve the illusion that all is fine and dandy.

No one really wants to play a game where the gameplay integrity is undermined through the inclusion of real-life wealth. That’s the corporate desire, not the gamer desire.

In WoW it’s a bitter pill to swallow – and one a lot of people will claim not to have swallowed – because WoW is a premium-priced game and should therefore come with the premium experience. That’s what people pay all that extra money for, right? So it’s hard to admit that the gameplay integrity is just as undermined as in the other “lesser games” that WoW pretends not to be.
After all, if you admit that it means that you’re paying Blizzard a lot of money without really getting better gameplay integrity in return. I.e you’re getting screwed. And who wants to admit they’re getting screwed? Better to keep the illusion then and argue the semantics.

All the while I could swipe the credit card today and get KSM without having done a single Mythic Dungeon in all of Dragonflight so far.
I could swipe the credit card and get AOTC without having set foot in a single Normal Raid difficulty so far.
But it’s not pay-to-win. Of course it’s not… [insert semantics] :roll_eyes:

4 Likes
55

wow is so p2w that you need 3rd party addons and websites to understand if a player actually good or got boosted. but yeah keep saying it’s not :smiley: at the end of the day this game is more messed up on p2w aspect than asian mmos selling bis item on shop because they at least add extra stuff to make sure it looks like someone payed cash for it xd try forming groups without raider io or warcraftlogs if you honestly think wow isn’t p2w, good luck

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56

Well as a destro warlock i tick every single one of those boxes.
Currently i am one of the 3 worst dps specs. I am also not a great player. I am in my 50’s and not as fast as some of the younger people in my guild but i am still on the mythic raid team because i put the effort into the game to learn how to maximise my damage and gear up my character.
If i can do it, anyone can do it.

57

Exactly. Only real desperate players even need a boost or something to get to that level as you do. It’s not rocket science. However, it is a personal player question of “is that time investment for me personally the effort worth or not”.

58

You are wrong. Its that simple.
Everything player power related that can be earnt by buying gold from a token can be earnt ingame by any player that wants to work for it.
If you dont be honest and say that you cant be bothered to work for it.

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59

they can’t be earned by any player. you can’t get the mythic loot from fyrakk as an average player. there’s a skill & log wall between you and that item(by you i mean an average wow player not specifically you). it’s no different than forcing real money . if anyone could achieve anything we wouldn’t have raider io and warcraft logs or boosting.

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60

I don’t consider WoW pay to win either. Doesn’t help that there is no official meaning.

61

as I said you can get a group or a guild to do the higest content, so yes most if they put the effort in can, but that doesnt meen it is easy for everyone to achive and for some they will never achive it.
there is so many factors that contributes to it, like how fast of an learner are you, do you have the time it takes do it, can you play for enough hours to get everything done.
once you do achive it, it becomes easier offcourse.

but it still comes down to, will you get the chance to prove your self, becuse this is the real hard part, specialy if you are working on to find a group or guild, you are more or less alone then, and that is nasty, communites do help in this matter a lot now, what is a realy good thing.

so even if everyone can or could do it, it doesnt meen they can in any way or form do it in an reasonable time, and it comes down to ther person a lot, will they work through the hard parts or give up, I do think the majority gives up becuse of how hard it can be.

offcourse there is the entitled people who think they are gods gift to wow and think they should get everything handed to them that never realy will achive anything meening ful lol.