Art imitates life. Everything is political. From what are you trying to escape?
[quote=“Brigante-argent-dawn, post:86, topic:320050”]Deadpool part 
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I haven’t seen Deadpool tbh, but I know he’s weird / crazy af, and I guess you’re right, people don’t need to look everywhere to see bad agendas. But in Venom’s case, when I read Venom back in the day, there was no mention of it, nor was that important.
But what I do see is they’re taking some classic characters, changing their race (tbh that Spiderman cartoon was awesome, and it wasn’t Peter Parker, story was awesome), or focus on sexual preference (something that imo is not something people who read that are interested in). I dunno, imo they are killing their franchises, and if they do, don’t cry and blame the people who are not interesting in reading that.
Idk… if i go out in the world and do “stuff” i’ll get stacks and stacks of excess waste matter, luckily it can be recycled inside the 200k-now reservoir and put to good use.
Unless it’s full. 
Then it’s just trash littering my bags…
But wouldn’t it have been amazing if it stacked on itself? A number of greens become blues, a number of blues become epics???
I know… very complicated system. 
What nonsense argument is that? Not every piece of art has to imitate every facet of life contantly. During world war 2, a lot of people seeked extra cheerful and happy art that did NOT remind them of their daily life.
Life can be hard, annoying and frustrating. And yes, the culture wars are extremely annoying. This is why I hate to see it in the game now, as well.
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You are not going through WW2. Games are art, art imitates life, reflecting its era and culture inevitably. Treating it as escaping from reality is just wrong as it is a choice to participate in culture and art.
I just find it curious that there’s a significant overlap with people making these arguments of escape and not wanting culture/politics in art and people decrying said games being turned into safe spaces when that’s literally what they’re demanding with the fundamentally incorrect “apolitical art” demands.
WoW’s politics has been plain for ages and to rise up in revolt at this stage against it having parallells to reality seems more like a reactionary reflex to one particular issue being handled (in this case removing a reference to a transphobic joke) than any rational desire to excise politics from WoW, which would, one must admit, leave it empty.
You still don’t get it, and you probably don’t do because you don’t mind these politics anywhere and everyehre in your life. Imagine listening to a favorite song of yours and the middle of it suddenly has a P.S.A. about whatever, even if you agree with that message.
It pulls you completely out of the experience.
And by the way, I don’t even agree with the message either, because the message is that men should never be in control of women (not even villains), while for women to torture and mind-control men, it’s completely fine and even rewarded with redemption.
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There’s the key phrase. These politics. What are these politics that upset you so that you can no longer enjoy the already highly political art that is warcraft?
This is utterly irrelevant and in no way comparable.
Which message where and how? Hypocrisy is not a sudden and jarring insertion into previously apolitical narratives.
The politics where art should not depict bad things, but should always only ever depict what an ideal version should be. Also the politics of sexuality being inherently bad and degrading which I completely disagree with, 100%.
Why would it be? Both break immersion becauce a change in politics changes a piece of art you know. This isn’t something to easily disregard.
The fact that they removed the dialogue of an undead man brainwashing and dominating a human woman, while IN THE VERY SAME PATCH CYCLE we had an undead woman brainwashing and dominating a human man. Even the wording used in game is nearly identical. This is a clear political statement where Sylvanas is allowed to do what this Gerard NPC apparently can’t anymore.
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Guessing they’re just gonna purge everything that happened during the second war aswell.
Seeing some of the stuff they’ve removed, I expect they’ll probably also remove “Run away little girl” from Karazhan.(and probably break DBM too)
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Are we still even on the transphobia? What are you tacking onto this to make an argument?
Get back to me when WoW has a sudden jump cut with an unskippable text box stating that “this cinematic is a product of its time” yada yada.
What Gerard did was always gross and part of the horribly inconsistent portrayal of the forsaken as tragic sympathetic victims but also unapologetic cackling villains with no capacity for humanity.
Sylvanas destroying Anduin’s free will is a portrayal of her continuous slide into becoming what she hated; turning into Arthas in the process of righting the wrong done to her. She is not portrayed as heroic doing this and is a complete villain.
The issue would come later, giving back her missing soul and whitewashing all her previous crimes because she wasn’t whole.
It’s portrayed as an evil horde doing evil horde things until they work toward redemption in WC3 so it’s pretty fundamental to the orc story. If they were portrayed as the good guys and blizzard later went back on it because of their methods you’d have a point.
I’m not talking about transphobia, the title of the thread is about those NPC’s in Undercity.
Removing things you know used to be there has the exact same effect. I can’t unremember what used to be.
Yes, yes it was. And this was the very foundation of the Forsaken. You can argue it’s bad, but that was the original intention, and changing it now after 16 years is an insane retcon. Especially when the Forsaken did the exact same thing over and over and over, including in BFA with Derek Proudmoore by the way. Oh but that must be fine because once again it was Sylvanas and the victim was male, right?
Yeah, and? Gerart wasn’t exactly portrayed as heroic either. The Forsaken were always portrayed as villains or at least tolerating villainy among their ranks. From these things in Vanilla to Wrathgate to Gilneas to killing civilians in Silverpine to the burining of Teldrassil.
But now the Forsaken ave to be changed to selectively only be cruel to males because while they are evil, they are very woke and respect women. Suuuuure.
Tbh my only question is: will they rename the French classic realm named “Finkle”?
Will the server be renamed “Pip”?
Will they completely forget about this server?
This would require common sense and not using the IP as a weapon for the minority voices.
Sadly common sense isn’t that common for the past 6-8 years now.
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Didnt even know those things were “evil and degrading for people like me”. Always nice to get told by others about what i should feel offended about.
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RL Frizzle’s very, very dark thoughts…
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Your argument rests on Sylvanas doing this being OK in blizzard’s book because she’s a woman when in fact both Gerard and Sylvanas are monsters.
That’s a very selective reading of a wider shift (not retcon) of the Forsaken as victims and not actually the nation sized death cult of the Dark Lady, bent on global genocide. A development to move them away from naked villainy and a story chained to one character, giving them agency and humanity.
If they were as bad as portrayed all along, why did the good guy horde not stop them immediately? No, it’s pinned as a long game by a Sylvanas that’s been irredeemably bad since at least Icecrown.
Technically they did in this case, as it’s Superman’s son, not Superman himself.
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Yes. Blizzard says it’s OK to portray Sylvanas torturing and brainwashing men, but it’s not OK to portray forsaken men torturing and brainwashing women. There is no different between the 2 scenarios except the genders, and Blizzard removed one. So why exactly is one okay to include in the game’s story but the other one is somehow so beyond the pale and so “incompatible with their values”?
That would be if they made NEW dialog that supposedly takes place in the present time where Gerard or anyone else condemns these previous monstrous acts. But retroactively changing dialogue is a retcon.
Well, it was also part of the story. Same reason why the US didn’t stop the USSR during WW2. Current alliances and war politics necessitated that they tolerate the unsavory behavior. This was in fact addressed in the exchange between Garrosh and Sylvanas in the Silverpine questline (which they also censored in a stupid way, but let’s not open that can of worms again)
Hold until we see what they do with Sylvanas. If she’s simply let go with no accountability and confrontation about her numerous crimes against just about everyone you might have a point but removing Gerard and his lobotomy slave Teresa is not equivalent.
Presumably, Gerard blew up with Undercity, never facing accountability and presumaby, Teresa died with him. Sylvanas has yet to face any consequence. Currently, both of these characters are monsters who escaped all consequences.
Writing new content where actually, not all forsaken worshiped at Sylvanas’ feet and aren’t hardwired homicidal monsters isn’t a retcon. It’s showing a different side of a society that has, until now, been under complete domination by a personality cult serving its leader’s world ending agenda.