Think the value of BOE’s for the guild bank, particularly early in an Expansion makes it an attractive proposition, for a guild group… then kitting out alts later.
I agree that targeting mount drops at the same time, makes sense.
Do you think listing as: ‘Boralus…Jaina…gg Blizz’… might be putting people off?
![:grin:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grin.png?v=6" ":grin:")
lmaoooo what? ![:joy:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
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My map has a ! in pretty much every zone because I don’t like dungeons, or rather, I don’t like putting myself in the line of fire with a load of impatient angry people. My experience of this game since 3.3 has been mostly solo, due to guilds not holding together the way they used to, and other people’s behaviour. I don’t complete profession quests, and since Legion I have little motivation to do professions anymore simply because I know I won’t be able to have closure without pugging, same as with zone quests. I forced myself through a dungeon and an LFR in Legion to get flying, and I can still remember sitting there holding my breath and sweating while people argued for no reason.
It’s not good game design to have any quest chain go from one type of gameplay into another. When I’m out in the world questing, I have the choice whether or not to interact with others. People help each other, intentionally or not. I’ll gladly give advice to someone if they ask me a question in an area we’re both questing. That type of random encounter with other players is optional and relaxed for the most part, and is the essence of the MMO genre. That experience should remain all the way through every quest chain including the ending.
For some reason, Blizzard seem to think putting the end of quest chains behind multiplayer content is a great idea. I don’t know why Blizz don’t have a rated BG session in the middle of every dungeon. Seems inconsistent to me. After the final boss in every raid, perhaps everyone should have to win an arena match before they’re allowed any loot from the raid.
At the very least, I just wish they would mark quest chains that end up in a dungeon, so I could choose not to even start the chain. By all means, make dungeon quests, but keep them contained within the dungeon and not part of a main storyline like Jaina’s. It makes no sense to watch 80 minutes of a movie in the comfort of your own home, and then watch the last 10 minutes in a friend’s house while their kids have a fight and throw stuff at you.
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if you categorically refuse to do a m0 for the story, and are still interested in it, youtube is there for you.
Pentagram, I differ on this point: do think it is good game design to (usually) move the end of a long chain from solo quests into a group dungeon or raid. It makes sense to turn up the intensity for the last act, the face-off with the Big Bad.
You do make a decent point about different types of content, though. I remember the salt flowed purple when the Cloak required BG wins in Pandaria - and they weren’t even RBGs. 
All the zone quest chains culminate in a dungeon in BfA, as they did in Legion.
However, BfA professions do not require dungeons to skill up, except Herbalism Anchor Weed Rank 2, so you can safely resume those without being forced into dungeons.
I understand your reluctance to waste your time on “impatient angry people”, though my observation is that only about 10% of runs involve some grief of that kind. I do know a couple of people who are quite affected by it, though, and therefore avoid it. By the best figures I can glean from public statistics, you are not alone: 15%-30% of players avoid random groups to some significant degree.
You could, though, look for other people who also don’t like the uncooperative and abusive mess that groups sometimes devolve into.
This community, for example, is for people like you:
While I’ve noted that such groups tend to be not very active, and you won’t instantly get a group in any of them at any hour of the day or night, if you stick with it and ask for others a few times, you WILL end up getting a friendly and patient group to do your quests with who have the same mindset you do.
Don’t give up on dungeons entirely. They’re actually fun! as long as you’re with a group who have the same objectives as you. Just gather a loose network of friends and contacts you can get through them with comfortably. It’s a pity that Blizzard doesn’t incentivise this kind of play, but at least Communities do partly enable them.
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Cheers Grainne. I think I’ll look into that community a bit later. ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Just need to decide on a class I’m comfortable playing in dungeons first.
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As most actual content it can be done by an unborn fœtus, the only thing still Chalenging today is FIND 20 man to raid mythic.
As much as i understand that the game can be played from different POV (only questing …etc) the game itself should not adapt its the other way, but sadly it is the design philosophy for modern wow make everything easily accessible to everyone.
Bare in mind we had way more casuals during BC where everything was locked behind attunements than today entire population where the game is focusing how to please everyone.
Again, don’t think so much about a class you’re comfortable playing in dungeons, and think more about connecting with people you’re comfortable playing with in dungeons. 
I brought a rag-tag bunch through some Normals for quests last week. No healers in any of them. Three tanks in another, with neither DPS nor heals. Tank + 4 deeps in another. They were not at all unpleasant for anyone; they were actually fun! You can’t do assembly-line industrial quantity dungeons like that, but if you only want to do a couple of dungeons a week, it’s certainly possible.
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people are just needlessly scared of the mythic tag. Man up and try it. Play with a guild and not strangers.
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I don’t think they’re scared of it, just not interested in the type of gameplay it provides. There’s some group coordination required (depending on gear level obviously, if you’re 310+ you’ll just roll over it) and possibly interaction with other people instead of a queue system.
If this was an MMO I’d totally justify your statement, but it hasn’t been for many years So it kinda makes sense that people ask for this stuff to be doable now and not in 5 months as a solo-queue player.
I generally find there is very little interaction in Mythic 0. I say hello. There is a greeting in return (sometimes nothing). I travel to the dungeon, often getting a summon while on route.
It’s definitely not the game it was in Vanilla, true, but we shouldn’t be encouraging it to move even further away from group play.
If people aren’t interested in a certain aspect of the game that’s absolutely fine - but the responsibility to change lies on their part - either they adapt or leave it.
Like me and Arena. Never took to it, even having tried a few times over the years, it just isn’t for me. But I don’t expect it to go - or change to suit my tastes. I just don’t participate.
I take the point about the story though - they should just make the two dungeons queueable for the sake of argument. But what they shouldn’t do is change the essence of the game further to suit an idea that isn’t part of the core game mechanics.
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I couldn’t agree more. But we both know that blizzard’s philosophy is exactly that. Both king’s rest and siege of Boralus will get a queue-based hc version sooner or later. Will we ever get a version of the attunement for them that requires doing group content that needs premade groups? I somehow doubt it.
The direction of the game is clear and I’m not suggesting that it changes. But the way it is, both solo players and “team players” (for lack of a better term, those that enjoy doing content that needs team coordination) get a bad deal in cases like this. Imo they are trying to cater to audiences that are very different in the same game and as a result none of these audiences are completely satisfied with the result.
True. They can’t win on this. Either they’re listening to the ‘community’ or they’re not. And what is the ‘community’ actually saying?
In cases like the Azerite armour it’s more clear-cut but in these cases the waters are certainly more muddy.
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Ye but small little changes add up.
The “I wanna see the story/content” argument led to the LFR. The “I pay my sub just like everyone else” contributed to the welfare gearing system. The “abusive RLs” argument" removed the ML. None of these by itself would cause this game to shift away from its essence, but if you add all of them up you end up with a completely different game.
I wouldn’t care if SoB had an HC version. I can see why some people wanna Q for M0s. I’m not afraid of these changes, I’m afraid what’s gonna be next.
This game has shifted away from a mainly group focused game that I liked back in the days. So nowadays I’m voicing concerns against every suggestion that would shift the game even further, even if those changes might seem reasonable by themselves.
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They do indeed.
The 'community’s voice is just a screeching harp of dissonance. Theres almost never any unified voices at all. What some might like, others is ambivalent against or outright hostile to.
Going a bit off topic here but even azerite armor is not a bad system in itself. I feel like they tried to correct the problems legion had of “no customisation allowed” (mogging excluded). But no single system will add customisation and meaningful choices, which is why the azerite system ended up being a mess.
I mean, they’d have an easier time making azerite armor work in classic and I’m not suggesting it should be in classic than making it work in bfa 
Damage procs off attacks with a stacking buff when you attack? Works with fast weapons. Increase in weapon damage abilities? Works with slow weapons. Are azerite pieces scarce? No problem, all gear is scarce. But this is bfa, all weapon speeds are homogenised, all spell ranks are merged and spell power coefficients don’t exist. There are no real talent trees to swap points around so azerite armor stops being about changing playstyle or customising (like tier sets/talent points of old). Just becomes an extra factor in simming upgrades. Not to mention that gear isn’t scarce so not getting upgrades for weeks/months isn’t ok.
What I’m getting to is that they’re trying to do things that aren’t compatible with the rest of the game but they don’t make the changes needed to accommodate the new features because they’ll upset players (and probably not make the release deadline).
The game was still new and shiny. There was a LOT less choice out there in online games with big persistant worlds. People were okay with ‘just being there’ because it was ‘the cool game to play’ for a while. That’s no longer the case and now people want to get their money’s worth and that means Blizzard having to cater to all kinds of players.
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