Gouge, Garrote baseline ASAP

[Mysidechick-outland]

Yhe we got Nerfed crimson, but i rather have huge burst as we do now in the alpha then more control/bigger heals.

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Mysidechick-outland

but i rather have huge burst as we do now

Numbers are not tuned.

[Acta-kazzak]

@Rat-mazrigos

because garrote is completly broken if you have any acccess to stealth outside of vanish

Silences in general are really overpowered in pvp which is why they were pruned way back for example a kidney swap to a healer with garrote is 11 seconds long 11 seconds where you can do nothing while taking dmg is INSANE imo. it’s only balanced* for assa because they have very limited access to stealth ( which is a reason if you look at the pvp ladder you will see only nightelfs playing rogue) and even then it’s not balanced

HOWEVER it could be readded to sub but ONLY if dance is 1 min if any reseting of dance is possible because then you would have to tune rogue dmg down enough to balance it and thats just boring if you play a spec with everything and 0 dmg i

That +100 .
Im sure they can fix it easily and give our utility back.

[Mysidechick-outland]

Yhe but if we get more CC then they have the option to nerf rouge dmg when kids are crying on forum

[Dolva-draenor]

Giving every rogue gouge and garrote would be insane.

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Dolva-draenor

Giving every rogue gouge and garrote would be insane.

Have you looked at the class changes? Rogues get nothing while other classes look strong as hell. Dks, paladins and warriors look much stronger. Why should they get a load of utility baseline while rogues get nothing? Gouge should absolutely be baseline again. There is no debate to be had.

If the meta is very bursty, rogues might be ok, otherwise they need more utility/survivability.

[Cryroth-outland]

Rogues already had an insane amount of utility compared to every class. Giving all classes some utility back will balance it out. Rogues need subterfuge removed, nothing more.

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

@Cryroth-outland

Rogues need subterfuge removed, nothing more.

Stop crying, you are flat out wrong. Dks are monsters in alpha. Self healing for days.

[Barøux-hyjal]

Just Gouge all specs; Garrote will be INSANE in Sub with ShD and the resets that go with it and in Outlaw … no.
Imo I’d like to see SmokeBomb all specs baseline again.

[Kaldea-magtheridon]

Shadow Dance needs to be reworked 1st. Returning it into a CD ability would help with a lot of balance issues, and also make it feel more special. I think 1,5min, or 2min with the CD reduction mechanics in place (taking Vanish also into account) would be the sweet spot. Getting ShD more than 1/min is too much to be balanced, as we’ve seen for a long time. Sometimes a simpler basic design offers more ways to make gameplay fun.

Gouge and Garrote baseline for all is fine, IMO, if ShD is changed in a similar way as I proposed. I would even go as far to say, that the Combo Point generation of Gouge is unnecessary, so it would be a real choice between CC or damage (even if indirectly).

I think Smoke Bomb should be made baseline, so that Rogues would have a solid and unique ability to use in group settings. It’s very situational, but it could - at times - give the class some moments of glory, things that make you want to have a Rogue in your group.

[Sevenblade-defias-brotherhood]

It’s essential to the class to have a variety of tools, doh! The most fun is not when you have one or two setup Blizz created for your spec. Most fun is when you have different tools to experiment, mixing each other and watch the results, especially playing a rogue.
One player want to bleeding his oponent out, when he watch it safely from the shadows, other want to quick burst mob by mob (frag by frag ), and another want to have sustained dmg to melting hp bar in raids and bgs. More choices, more fun.

[Cryroth-outland]

You literally have the best amount of CC in the game and you want more. I don’t even play DK anymore, besides, DKs have damage and survivability. Rogues have survivability, damage, cc and decent mobility.

RoUgEs NeEd GoUgE AnD GArRoTe BaSeLiNE AsAp
what are you willing to pay if you want that? DKs own cooldowns have negative sides, such as when you pop Lichborne you get slowed to 50%, when you pop Death Pact you get a Healing Absorb.

You don’t need more CC. You’re already insane and biased.

I pay 13 euros a month to play the game, not to sit in CC 80% of the time. At the very least, make them more outplayable.

[Arkanist-ragnaros]

wish they’d remove the dance cd reduction and bring them back
it’d still be worser than historical rogue which had prep but having a less mongo spec would actually make me want to pvp in sl

[Stabdaughter-auchindoun]

What about if garrote only does the silence part in assassination spec? So it doesnt do the silence part while in outlaw and sublety spec?

[Kaldea-magtheridon]

@Stabdaughter-auchindoun

What about if garrote only does the silence part in assassination spec? So it doesnt do the silence part while in outlaw and sublety spec?

I think Shadow Dance is the issue here, really. Having the option for so many Silences so easily is just OP. I’m okay with having to Vanish to Garrote-Silence, as that’s an actual tactical choice, which has you using your most important CD. If they could uncouple the Garrote-Silence from Shadow Dance, somehow, this would help with balance issues a lot. Garrote without the Silence isn’t really worth using for Sub or Outlaw, as the Damage per Energy is negligible at best, when compared to what other abilities could be used.

[Blindsapboom-outland]

They can add requirement to Garrote and make it to only silence from stealth. They did something like this with Shadowstrike (so you get teleported to the enemy only while Shadowstrike is used from stealth - Shadow Dance is not counted as stealth).

It should fix “ShD makes garrote impossible to balance” and still give sub rogues some new options.

[Griphter-tarren-mill]

Sounds like old ability bloat. no need.

[Xerxor-shattered-hand]

Sounds like you have no clue about game design