These tools should be available classs wide again. I miss them. Preparation would be nice too.
Oh, and backstab getting its old sound back along with substantial damage buff, cata style. Backstab should hit hard, give hemo back for frontal damage.
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Outlaw sure doesn’t miss another maintenance buff, we enjoy our fast paced gameplay, tyvm. IF it were only castable from stealth, that would be a different question but since Assa can cast it without stealth it would be poor design to make it work differently for each spec.
Gouge, idk, I don’t PvP enough to care, in M+ it’s too easy to break it, short and has to be in the correct position. Not that useful anyway imo. If you’re out of your other stuns and kicks, sure. But that’s why you have 4 other ppl in the team, I’m not a stun bot. If it becomes baseline, alright, whatever.
I don’t like/play Sub, so I’m not gonna voice my opinion on hemo and backstab.
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What? I have said nothing of a maintenance buff. Premeditation is not preparation. Preparation reset all our cooldowns.
Sorry, my poor wording, I meant maintenance dmg dealer. Garrote is absolutely not neccessary for outlaw.
Ok, but the silence is very useful in pvp, and being able to bleed a target should be available to all rogues, like in the past. You are free to disagree of course.
Add something as a PvP talent then, because in PvE it’s unneccesary. Outlaw COULD use some DoT dmg, ofc. But I’d rather have something that doesn’t slow the spec down. Deadly Poison would be a better contender imo.
Right now the 3 spec has their own identity which I like. (Ok, Assa feels miserable, but that’s not the question). Sub is excellent for PvP with its “burst”, Assa SHOULD be a ST glass cannon with a beginner friendly slower gameplay and outlaw an AoE focused class with reactionary gameplay.
Garrot doesn’t fit either except Assa. I could see a PvP talent which adds something like that to the other two spec, just not in PvE. SnD already proved to be a pretty much disliked addition to Assa.
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No, it shouldn’t.
Slow gameplay doesn’t work in pvp.
And assa wasn’t even a dot spec to begin with, the dot spec was Sub with hemo and bleeds, and much more CC, but slighlty less deeps, (becuse of the CC aspect of the sub spec)
Assa relied on abilities that hit like a truck, and powerful finishers, you could even go over the standard 5cp’s, for something like a 7cp finisher, and you had a talent that made it so that you could over cp, without losing points. The combo points were “saved” there when you had done your finisher. Oh and cold blood was one of assas abilites, not subs.
And why should assa be, the beginner friendly spec?.
Besides everying in wow these days are beginner friendly.
(at least easier than what they used to be)
Or what do you even mean with beginner?.
A clicker, keyboard turner, or backpeddling?.
Or all of the above?
Slower doesnt mean slow. It means it’s not the mad keyboard hitting style of Outlaw, or Havoc. Also if you read my other suggestions in different rogue related topics, I advised the spec to be a semi-dot/bleed spec to have a steady sustained dmg and rely on short dmg windows like Envenom’s buff+Elaborate Planning, hitting hard with Envenom. These talents are already in the game right now, therefore the devs don’t need major overhaul because let’s face it, they won’t do it anyway until 10.0
Also Blizzard themselves “set up” assa as the recommended “rogue beginner”. If you boost a rogue, they will start as Assa and the game says they recommend it for beginners. Therefore I try to stay within the lines set by Blizzard.
Also keep in mind that WoW has a wide demographic, older players included. They usually prefer “slower” specs, you like it or not, they exists and Blizzard is aware of that.
Sub is everything but beginner friendly, and so is Outlaw’s hectic reaction playstyle. Not every player knows how to set up a WA to track RtB buffs, ect. Assa is a lot friendlier as it is now. Also tyvm, I played Vanilla and TBC, I remember Cold Blood. I didn’t even mention it, as it is not part of the conversation (Garrote, Gouge being baseline).
What they used to be? :'D TBC huntard mousewheel macro would like to have a word with you and so is frost bolt mages, ect… I don’t know this “legendary complex class”, because clunky=/= complex and most of the time ppl remember that as complex. Also not every player finds complicated fun. If you look around on the forums, people tend to ask about “easy to pick up classes/specs”.
TLDR: Assa can be slower THAN Outlaw which is currently the fastest spec in game. Blizz use it as the introductory Rogue spec. Older players appreciate slower specs. Complicated doesn’t equal FUN. Most of my recommendations are for PvE, PvP can and should use PvP talents to adress problems in PvP, unless it’s a core problem (like SnD on Assa right now, which makes the spec even slower to play)
Well Prep would make people loose their minds in PvP thats for sure. 
Gouge is the same DR as Sap hence wouldn’t be much use…
For PvE it doesnt really matter much tbh
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Its not like you sap every target you face, of course it would be very useful
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At best it grants you a restealth or interrupts a cast.
Overall it wouldn’t be that bad, I’ll give you that, but it can be dodged/parried (Die By The Sword/Fists of Fury/Evasion) and you can’t bypass due to the “must face” requirement (would be op otherwise tho).
There are plenty of people whining that we have too much CC already, this would be just oil on the fire.
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These people are way off base though.At best a restealth o interrupts a cast?! I think that´s mighty good myself!
This game needs more cc, not less.
pvp talents shouldn´t even be a thing. I want my full toolkit back for all content.
Also, this entire game is “unnecessary”. I don´t know about you, but I play to have fun, and the game is more fun with interesting abilites.
I can´t stress this enough. These kind of comments grate me. I see them all the time, you don´t need dit and you don´t need that, that would be op etc etc.
Ffs this game was more fun when we had more cool tools to use in combat. Cata and MoP were the best times for classes. Ever since the pruning began in wod class gameplay has become stale and one dimensional.
well from a competitive PVP stand point, sub has a lot of damage and lacking utility or means of disabling go attempts outside of cheap / kidney & blind if pushed comes to shove
outlaw on the other hand has gouge, disarm + everything the other two rogue specs already has. So it begs the question, why isn’t there a preset amount of utility/ damage abilities baseline to the rogue class.
idk about you but I don’t see why or how any flavour of rogue wouldn’t know how to dismantle a weapon or at least disarm their opponent given its alot about dirty fighting, cheap shot, kidney shot, blind etc.
2 Likes
Exactly. That´s how it should be, and was, until WoD and Legion came around and cut classes into separate mini classes instead of specs. I mean, even poisons were relegated to one spec! Hunter traps removed! And a whole host of other retarded changes.
I can´t even stand to play my mage (which is my “true” main) due to it having so few tools compared to before, that and clunky gameplay overall. RIP mop fire mage.
I really think i´m done with this game under its current leadership, I really am.
The real world beckons.
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Agree… and the fact that monks and warriors have disarm is so annoying in pvp. I don´t know if blizzard have realized that disarm is basically on par with a hard CC in arena. You can still use defensives and shuriken storm… but u cant trinket out of it… which is sometimes worse, because if they disarm you when you pop your CDs its just byebye.
I have been trying some 3v3s lately and the ladder is so cancer atm… Every time there is either an arms warr or ww monk or both. Several games versus a monk, warr, healer comp I was just chain disarmed for 10-12 seconds in a row (cant remember the exact seconds for each disarm).
Perhaps I am missing something here regarding how to avoid these situations, in that case tips are welcome.
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