Harrassment, Sexism and worse at the heart of Blizzard?

[Taxania-argent-dawn (Taxania)]

It boils down to this:

It has come to light that the World of Warcraft development team is/was full of people who took advantage of their position to engage in predatory behaviour and abuse.
Now is the time to see to it that the people who engaged in these antics are punished and the people that they preyed upon are protected for any further abuse.
The physical and mental wellbeing of the people who have had to endure this sort of behaviour comes before the development of the game, as does the pursuit of justice for them. Human lives come before games.
This isn’t the best point in time to focus on the game and draw the discussion away from the very real human suffering that has been caused by several key figures in the World of Warcraft development team.
We all want the game to be better and we all want to engage the game more than we currently do. That just comes second to seeking justice for the victims of sexual harassment at Activision Blizzard.

We can talk about the game, how it used to be better and how it should be improved some other day. It’s just not the topic that we should be focusing on right now, especially not in this thread.

If you really want to talk about the game’s problems right now, there’s Pet Peeves for that, or other boards on this forum. I just don’t think that people should be coming into a thread all about the sexual misconduct at Activision Blizzard and going “but what about the game tho.”

[Akamito-argent-dawn (Akamito)]

I’d be interested to see what Kotick’s hired in law firm to sweep the company to find faults find. Either they’re paid to look at the surface level and give them the all clear, or if they actually dig down deep and we see a series of high level departures (including Brack).

I’m hoping for the latter but fully expecting the former. If anyone needs to be appointing a company to check them over, it shouldn’t be them. Especially since I remember reading this morning that the firm they’re using is the same one that is union busting for Amazon.

So probably not the best outcome expected here.

[Atahalni-argent-dawn (Atahalni)]

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

Have you even been playing classic lol? How can you call it a success when company promises one thing, but delivers another? Most major content creators left 2 weeks after TBC went live, more are leaving now. How is it a success to fail in relaunching a 14 y.o game?

Probably because Classic WoW includes more than just the Burning Crusade- Namely, Classic vanilla wow. Which was an incredible success. And to my knowledge so was BC too, up until this whole thing blew up.

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

you also clearly cannot read, citing only things you wish out of context.

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

beginning of Cata, when Blizzard started to introduce insane amount of accessibility to the game:

My reference was to your point that these things were problematic, when clearly most of these systems existed in Wotlk without any problem. The reason why I pointed out it was a wotlk thing is because Wotlk is objectively the best expansion they have released to date, and as such I find the assertion that LFD is somehow a bad thing an extremely weird take.

Like, out of all the problems the game has, you somehow came to the conclusion that LFD is the one? Really?

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game#Progression

That doesn’t answer my question. Could you list what features you specifically think are these “RPG elements”?

Because a whole lot of time I hear people repeat them out it’s actually just empty words, hence I ask for clarification.

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

V room temperature iq approach with which i don’t even want to bother arguing lol, if you want to die on a hill defending GOOD OL DAYS that weren’t even good - go for it, but that changes nothing that retail has been suffering from it for over a decade

…What was it you said again, Valteryl?

@Valteryl-argent-dawn

you also clearly cannot read

@Atahalni-argent-dawn

But these problems (the harassment kind) have been around for at least 15+ years according to the records of people. Maybe more. And Blizzard still managed to release several good expansions during that time. Only during the last 6-7 years things have gone down.

Maybe you should take your own advice instead.

It’s also very odd you accuse me of clinging to something old that doesn’t exist, when you’re the one here linking wikipedia articles of what are good RPG elements, which I suppose can only mean you crave back to them. Pot kettle.

[Atahalni-argent-dawn (Atahalni)]

@Akamito-argent-dawn

what? did we play the same cata?

Probably not, since every player experiences the experiences very differently as you can see from this very thread from just a few responses.

For me Cata was a good expansion. It wasn’t wotlk, but it was still far better than burning crusade was for example, which I know a lot of other people really like. And I still liked even BC, though only because I really miss the playstyle of feral druid from back then.

All in all I’d give it a solid 8 out of 10 as an expansion. In comparison, I’d give legion a 5, BFA a 3 and SL (so far) a 6. WoD would be 7.

@Tehya-wildhammer

i get that bullying buosh is like a local sport for some posters but be real

These people oftentimes refer to my posts, characters or past behaviour as beating me up or something equally vicious, when they come off as exactly the kind of people that even if you’d give them a bat to realize their supposed desires, they probably couldn’t do it. So it’s no surprise that their words come off as just that, air.

@Taxania-argent-dawn

Now is the time to see to it that the people who engaged in these antics are punished and the people that they preyed upon are protected for any further abuse.

Yep.

@Taxania-argent-dawn

The physical and mental wellbeing of the people who have had to endure this sort of behaviour comes before the development of the game, as does the pursuit of justice for them. Human lives come before games.

Also yep.

@Taxania-argent-dawn

This isn’t the best point in time to focus on the game and draw the discussion away from the very real human suffering that has been caused by several key figures in the World of Warcraft development team.
We all want the game to be better and we all want to engage the game more than we currently do. That just comes second to seeking justice for the victims of sexual harassment at Activision Blizzard.

This I however disagree with. I’m suggesting that, since there is most likely going to be a purge anyway, you might as well make the most out of it. My desire for that doesn’t come from a dark place or a wish to ignore the suffering of the people, it comes from a place where I genuinely believe that if there ever is an opportunity to improve this game for good, it’s now or never. As Peacemoon put it earlier:

@Peacemoon-argent-dawn

All I would say is that you’d be surprised the difference leadership can make.

Which, after some reflection, I agree with. If Blizzard can get one good man (or woman, I don’t care), who genuinely has a passion for the game, the entire dev team and making a change, it’s now or never to get that done.

The two goals need not be adversaries and it speaks volumes of the people trying to make it look so, when they most likely in their daily lives make several choices that affect people negatively, indirectly or directly, without ever batting an eye. But, they are so terrified of what some nobodies over the net think about them that they will go out their way to lie to not only themselves but to others as well, to appear good.*

*Not saying you did so, mind you.

[Tamajo-argent-dawn]

@Taxania-argent-dawn

The physical and mental wellbeing of the people who have had to endure this sort of behaviour comes before the development of the game, as does the pursuit of justice for them. Human lives come before games.

Yeah, but at the same time effort has to be poured into improving the product. Also regarding that tweet of [Alex Klontzas I believe?], we still maintain a monthly sub to buy the game. I’d be fully in favour of them working this whole ordeal out if we had some kind of guarantee we as players benefit from it.

Players are literally paying every month on top of buying the expansion itself to get constant updates to the game. This 9.1 patch basically cost players 90 euros. 7 months since buying the expansion back in November 2020, which was another 40 euros. The amount and quality of the content that is being delivered is completely and embarrassingly low in quality and small in quantity. I think that’s just why the notion of this lawsuit goes hand in hand with expectations/wishes for WoW to improve with a better work culture.

[Hethes-argent-dawn]

While I don’t necessarily disagree with the heart of what you say here, I don’t think this thread is fit for expressing dislike for the gameplay and arguing which expansion was bad/good for this or that reason. Here it’s about the lawsuit and surrounding situation. We can (and do) complain about the rest in other threads.

[Tamajo-argent-dawn]

I think we can all agree that whatever the outcome of this suit will be, considering Activision could very well settle, that we all want the working conditions to improve and the responsible people fired.

If the developers are having a good time working there, undoubtedly it should bode well for the game we play. As every day passes a new spin to this story is unveiled to an absurd degree, like posing with a framed portrait of Bill Cosby. I hope this ends sooner rather than later.

[Peacemoon-argent-dawn (Peacemoon)]

Well I’m not sure how much lower it can go.
I think Desartin hit the nail on the head:

@Desartin-argent-dawn

Good grief, they didn’t just hit rock bottom, they’re drilling straight into the planet’s core…

To be honest most people I know have now unsubbed and taken a break from the game. Depending on what happens next depends on when, or if, they return.

I would like to see resignations from the very top.

[Pitchwrench-argent-dawn]

How dare you look at things from a different perspective Boush

[Wilburmina-argent-dawn]

Your nose is looking a little brown there.

[Pitchwrench-argent-dawn]

Idk what you mean. I agree with some of the things he says and recently there was a fashion for attacking him, i spoke about this matter like twice lmao. I dont even rp with him

[Tehya-wildhammer]

sorry PAL you’re not allowed to agree with the forum B-listers’ target.

I don’t want to be seeing this behaviour from you again Pitchwrench.

[Pitchwrench-argent-dawn]

You wont stop me Tehya

[Kaitylinn-argent-dawn (Kaitylinn)]

@Peacemoon-argent-dawn

To be honest most people I know have now unsubbed and taken a break from the game. Depending on what happens next depends on when, or if, they return.

Honestly as much as it pains me to say it, and I hope this isn’t the case, but I can see this pretty much being the end of the line - not the instant shut down of the servers, but a shamble into what you might call “Zombie Warcraft”, on a constant downward spiral of dwindling players and diminishing returns.

Like most of the “Core” audience have pretty much dropped:

• Gameplay fans don’t like the gameplay

• Lore fans don’t like the lore

• Blizzard fans no longer like Blizzard (then again, who does at this point!)

• People here for their friendship circle, (hey, it’s me!) are seeing their friends move elsewhere, and so have no reason to stay either

The only two sets of players who’ve a reason to stay on are:

• Roleplayers (hey, it’s me again!), but even then, we’re being hit hard by all of the above, and there may come a time when the RP circle just isn’t big enough to sustain itself

• The die-hards, who’ve put so much time/effort/money into the game, they simply can’t bare to quit it.

I know I’m not saying anything unique or original here, but unless Blizzard REALLY turns it around in a big way (both by sacking the groomers, and rebooting the game in a manner akin to what award winning/free trial cat girlfriend simulator sensation FF14 pulled off with the “Realm Reborn” stuff), I can’t see it getting any better =(

Not that we as Roleplayers won’t keep trying our best of course! Like I know there are some great RP plans in the works from a lot of people that I hope people stick around for, but we’ll be a small spark of hope constantly trapped in ever repeating episodes of the Simpsons season 11 onwards

[Khelnamun-argent-dawn]

Yup.

I can see WoW being around for years to come, but we’ll most likely see servers being dismantled/consolidated, fewer patches and expansions with more time between them, and overall lower quality until eventually the only people left are the die-hards, and the folks who have no other game to go to.

[Aerilen-argent-dawn (Aerilen)]

To add onto this, WoW hasn’t had actual competition for most of its life span. There was the spate of MMO’s which were vaunted “WoW Killers” and i’m sure there was one which was self proclaimed by the devs (lol). And yet they burnt out in one expansion cycle.

FF for all its flaws (of which it has many) is probably the biggest kick up this games behind it has desperately needed. Resting on the laurels of what the game has been so far is probably the worst thing Blizzard can do at the moment.

Complacency will be a death by a thousand cuts.

[Peacemoon-argent-dawn (Peacemoon)]

Unfortunately I agree.

The only spark of hope is that Blizzard inject enough money and development into the game that people are prepared to start afresh.

[Peacemoon-argent-dawn (Peacemoon)]

@Kaitylinn-argent-dawn

Like most of the “Core” audience have pretty much dropped:

• Gameplay fans don’t like the gameplay
• Lore fans don’t like the lore
• Blizzard fans no longer like Blizzard (then again, who does at this point!)
• People here for their friendship circle, (hey, it’s me!) are seeing their friends move elsewhere, and so have no reason to stay either

The only two sets of players who’ve a reason to stay on are:

• Roleplayers (hey, it’s me again!), but even then, we’re being hit hard by all of the above, and there may come a time when the RP circle just isn’t big enough to sustain itself
• The die-hards, who’ve put so much time/effort/money into the game, they simply can’t bare to quit it.

I know I’m not saying anything unique or original here, but unless Blizzard REALLY turns it around in a big way (both by sacking the groomers, and rebooting the game in a manner akin to what award winning/free trial cat girlfriend simulator sensation FF14 pulled off with the “Realm Reborn” stuff), I can’t see it getting any better =(

I think this analysis is spot on! Which is quite sad in a way.

[Khelnamun-argent-dawn]

@Aerilen-argent-dawn

FF for all its flaws (of which it has many)

I’m glad you said this. So many people have come to me with nothing but good things to say about FF, asking me to join. To me it feels like while it’s being way overhyped recently. There’s plenty wrong with it too.

But back on topic, yeah I agree with you. Other MMO’s are making a return; a good thing for a genre which has been dominated by a single, ailing game.

[Aerilen-argent-dawn (Aerilen)]

@Khelnamun-argent-dawn

I’m glad you said this. So many people have come to me with nothing but good things to say about FF, asking me to join. I feel like the game, while certainly popular, has being overhyped recently. But back on topic, yeah I agree with you. Other MMO’s are making a return, which is a good thing for the genre which has been dominated by an ailing game.

The combat is a little “floaty”, the lighting is a bit weird and I think the art direction clashes with itself at times. I could go on a bit but this is the wrong thread for it.