Has it been considered to lower base RP generation?

I got this idea while i was levelling a new frost dk, Has it ever been played around with in development to lower the amount of runic power being generated by each rune considering how many RP issues the frost spec has?

Practically, there is no issue at the moment to be capped on RP. The issue comes mainly in that we have no reliable way to spend excess RP to convert for damage if you’re not specced as BoS. We need a new talent/ability that we can dump RP in for Obliteration builds.

For example FS deals 123.98% AP in total. 1RP = 4.9592 AP. If we had an ability that costed 60RP as a RP dump we can convert most of the RP as 297.552% AP if not slightly more.

Then why are you describing an RP issue?

It took me all of 5 minutes to discover an RP issue when I came back and logged into my dk, This isn’t exactly something that is hidden deep.

Because lowering RP generation means lowering RP damage and our RP spenders are already low on damage. The best direction for it to go is letting us make use of the RP that we can’t spend on.

Actaully it means they can increase the RP spender damage ratio due to a scarcity of the resource.

Right now, they have to nerf the abilities because they need to assume you are at 100% RP more or less permanently.

The problem with lowering RP generation would probably kill BoS.

The only other viable spec is Obliteration, and KM Oblit/FS weaves are built around 25 or 30 RP/HB Rimes. Upping FS RP spend would kill the weaving, lowering RP generation kills BoS. BoS makes use of it’s RP but outside of that, it doesn’t.

Outside of a full-on rework of how FDK operates like Ret, I can only see Blizz adding a new RP spender talent.

How would it kill BoS when that would be one of the simplest fixes in either increasing BoS damage or lowing BoS consumption.

Changing the RP generated would not kill the ability in any way because of basic balancing points.

I’m running with the logic that Blizzard balances the spec around BoS and that part of FDK doesn’t need to be tuned that much. We know that Blizzard won’t touch talents that are already performing well, so that’s why Blizzard won’t touch BoS or RP generation even if it’s considered simple.

If damage ratio of RP is changed, that’s changing more than just 2 abilities. I’m running with the of logic what we need now, which is a RP spender. If RP ratio needs changing, that’s a rework of the spec which I’m behind with if Blizzard ever bothers to do something about it.

That would be a bad idea in general.

Sure with obliteration you can overcap, they could solve that by allowing frost strike to consume more runic power, you know what’s not a way to solve this problem? Reducing rp generation, then you get downtime.

And i don’t know about you, but id rather waste some resources than have significant downtime in the spec.

I would much rather have a little, more predictable downtime than mash my face into the keyboard.

With downtime comes impact, and impact is what is fun in abilities

I wouldn’t suggest upping RP cost of Frost Strike because that would kill Obliteration weaving right now. 2 runes generate 20 RP and Frost Fever has a chance to generate 5 RP which barely gives us enough RP to spend on Frost Strike. Due to Runic Empowerment, we’re kind of caught in an RNG game to generate and spend Killing Machines within Obliteration. Increasing Frost Strike RP cost would just push us to overcap on purpose so that we’d have ammo to spend for KM.

No it doesn’t.

Downtime is antithetical to fun, it stops your rotation, impact comes from interactions within the spec, not from the fact that it’s slowed down, that literally makes no sense. let’s be real here, the reason why you would want this is because you have boomer hand right? Or you cannot follow the rotation because bad keybinds or aren’t good at typing, just say it, i know that’s the actual reason. It always is.

Even for spec that have higher downtime, the best moments are always when you can continue to cast abilities without interruption, this is true for both feral and sin rogue, which are both on the “slower side”, your argument literally makes 0 sense. And goes against observable reality.

Aside that, Beef, i don’t even know what you are talking about to be honest.

We are already wasting runic power which means there is room to consume more with 0 downsides.

Runic empowerment generates a rune based on a %, the higher the cost in rp the higher the chance to get a rune.

They could just make it so, if above 75 runic power, your frost strike consumes up to 50 power instead of 25 to deal double the damage.

Basically, by increasing the base RP cost of Frost Strike any further than 25RP, then during an Obliteration window, you wouldn’t be able to generate KMs unless you were already capped. I’ve had situations where my CDs were back on time but had to wait for the runes to regen in order to get RP.

We could be caught in a situation to spam 2 Obliterates for 40RP but not enough to generate a 50RP cost Frost Strike for Obliteration which means less FS to generate KMs. If you choose to generate max RP before Obliteration - you’d likely be rune starved by the time you press PoF.

I’ve also suggested the >75 RP = 50 RP cost in a thread to offset RP loss. It’s also why I would like to see another ability that we can use to dump RP. For example, Arms Warrior have the Storm of Swords talent which increases damage and rage cost of Whirlwind, turning it into a rage dump. I’d make Glacial Advance into a beefed up dump if that were the case, good for both ST and AoE.

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I get what you mean now.

Yea i’m not saying frost strike should always consume 50 power, just when you are above a certain threshold.

So you can dump a lot of runic power before you overcap, but at the same time you can use frost strike without worrying too much about obliteration.

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Your thinking is too closed, in order to fix any issue on frost dk it will take another 10 changes to fix the damage that has be done to the spec, that is the problem with having complete reliance on both RNG and stacking mechanics at the same time.

Actually, his ideas are far better than what you came up with.

Your points, unlike his make no sense.

Reliance on rng? Killing machine procs quite reliably even with low crit, rime proc is fixed at a pretty high chance.

Stacking mechanics? Welcome to class design where you stack good mechanics on top of each other that fit together, to make something truly splendid to play.

What are you gonna do? No rng so no killing machine and no rune procs or runic power procs, no staking mechanics so no obliteration, no breath, no pillar of frost.

So what does that leave? Do you just cast obliterate and frost strike? How is that a good spec exactly? Have you actually thought about what you were about to say?

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I realise you are posting on a demon hunter but you do not have to comment like you have never played nor looked at a DK’s mechanics before so how about I list this for you:

RNG mechanics

  1. Runic Empowerment
  2. Killing Machine
  3. Rime
  4. Frost fever
  5. Runic Attenuation
  6. Literally the auto damage has RNG miss
  7. Rune Mastery
  8. Rune of fallen crusader is stronger than other enchants increasing our RNG reliance over other enchants
  9. Icecap requires crits therefore RNG
  10. Rage of the frozen champion and Frigid Executioner
  11. Murderous Efficiency
  12. Frost Reaper further increases the RNG reliance on Killing Machine
  13. Enduring Strength
  14. Pillar of frost relies on good rune RNG
  15. Cold-Blooded Rage
  16. Invigorating Freeze
  17. Enduring Chill
  18. Frostscythe

Stacking mechanics

2. Icy talons
3. Permafrost
4. Unleashed Frenzy
5. Cold Heart
6. Bonegrinder
7. Gathering Storm
8. Everfrost
9. Pillar of frost
10. Enduring Strength
11. Shattering Blade adds a new level of stacking to razorice
12. Inexorable Assault

Look I’m all for a little RNG and the odd stacking but when you go beyond 4 or 5 you are just getting rediculous at that point nevermind having up to 18 Mechanics that completely randomly decide the outcome of your combat performance.

The stacking mechanics also get rediculous after 2 or 3 because they just bogg down your buff bar for no good reason especially when things like Icy talons and unleashed frenzy can just be fused into improved icy talons similar to someother mechanics.

and im pretty sure even I may have missed one or two, so basically if you lose to a dk, it is not because the dk is skilled, it is because the game decided that it is his turn to win.

edit time:
You know what no, I was gonna leave it there but it would be unfair to list this lot without proposed solutions:

  1. Killing machine, no more frost damage therefore reduced RNG reliance
  2. Frost fever, no RP full stop which also kills Invigorating freeze
  3. Runic Attenuation, literally just works on auto attacks like it used to, no additional RNG
  4. Rune mastery instead Buffs fallen crusader to add more strength
  5. icecap/pillar instead pillar is just flat strength while icecap adds flat mastery to Pillar of frost
  6. Rage of the frozen champion, simply baseline the RP generation as it should have been over a decade ago
  7. Frigid executioner, replaced with Inexorable Assault and now always triggers, no stacking
  8. Murderous Efficiency simply makes your rune cycle faster
  9. Enduring strength simply increases the duration of Pillar of frost, flat effect
  10. Cold-Blooded Rage, increased frost strike damage and crit chance
  11. Icy talons and Unleashed frenzy merged with both taken, unleashed frenzy renamed to Mighty talons
  12. Cold heart simply made into a standalone ability with a 40s cooldown
  13. Bonegrinder, increased global phsyical damage and increased frost damage for a duration after hitting with a killing machine obliterate.
  14. everfrost, simply a flat damage increase no more stacking

Just one or two thoughts but what do I know, I only ever bothered destroying heroic raids when there was a curve mount.

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